Ravindra Jadeja vs Bishan Singh Bedi as test bowlers

[Majestic]

How does Jadeja stack up against Bishan Singh Bedi as a test bowler purely? How do you compare their skills, ability to make the ball talk and performance across conditions?

[vvvslaxman]

Type of wickets tell you the difference. Jadeja is more about consistency. He rarely beats you in flight due to the trajectory. Staggering 45% of the wickets of Jadeja are lbw or bowled.  Against right handers he has more bowleds than leg before.  Just 11 stumpings. On the other hands only 24% of hte wickets of Bedi are leg before or bowled. But 18 stumpings. Besides approach back then would be surrounding the batsmen with 5 or6 fielders. You could do that because batsmen won't attack. Solkar and Venkat raghavan would take some breathtaking catches. You don't see bat-pad catches very often these days. Times have changed. rules have changed, technology has changed. For the current technology and batting trend Jadeja's type works well.

[Vijy]

neither are as good as shivalkar, who I saw.

[Lord]

17 hours ago, Vijy said:

neither are as good as shivalkar, who I saw.

 

Why didn't he play for India? politics?

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Why didn't he play for India? politics?

Him and Rajinder SIngh Goel were born in the wrong era. Both were prolific in domestic. But couldn't break the spin quartet. Goel took close to 700 wickets Shivalkar over 500 wickets. By the time quartet disappeared these two were old. Guys like Dilip Doshi, Shivlal Yadav, L siva started emerging.

[BacktoCricaddict]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

Guys like Dilip Doshi, Shivlal Yadav, L siva started emerging.

Wish they had actually emerged. Bleak times for Indian spin bowling until Kumble came on the scene.

[vvvslaxman]

25 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Wish they had actually emerged. Bleak times for Indian spin bowling until Kumble came on the scene.

 

Yea.. originally he was dropped after one Test. Wadekar's three spinner strategy  on red soil pitches played a big role in the 90s. India had a lot of random spinners like Raju, Chauahn, Nilesh Kulkarni, Bahutule, Rahul Sanghvi partnering Kumble with crumbling pitches. Kumble gradually got better and better with subtle action changes. He worked hard unlike guys like Hirwani, L Siva. 

[Muloghonto]

On 3/14/2024 at 11:34 AM, Majestic said:

How does Jadeja stack up against Bishan Singh Bedi as a test bowler purely? How do you compare their skills, ability to make the ball talk and performance across conditions?

 

Bedi had significantly greater flight & loop and spun the ball a lot more. In a way, he was the leftie spinner version of dale steyn - his stock delivery was, like steyn, the one that looped in to the batsman, pitched on middle & off and left the batsmen. 

Jadeja is a far more darter of a bowler, with significantly greater speed than Bedi, who also bowls more wicket to wicket than Bedi. Bedi was a better bowler IMO by some distance, as i can see Bedi picking up wickets today, as his stock ball would get wickets against any team in any era. Jadeja however, if transported back 40 years, would struggle to average below 35, as batsmen were far more comfortable defending back then and he doesn't have enough flight or movement to spin to trouble batsmen with a solid defensive game.

 

[Gollum]

Bedi was an artist, Jaddu is a metronome. Both great for their eras.

 

As great as Bedi was, from videos I watched of his bowling, he was too slow, maybe 75 kph on average. Wouldn't work in modern cricket, and increase in pace would be at the cost of flight, accuracy, spin. 

 

Bedi had SR of 80+, Chandra 65. So he wasn't a strike bowler back then. 

 

We tend to overrate the past. Respect them sure, but stop weaving mythical stories about their ability. 

[vvvslaxman]

5 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Bedi was an artist, Jaddu is a metronome. Both great for their eras.

 

As great as Bedi was, from videos I watched of his bowling, he was too slow, maybe 75 kph on average. Wouldn't work in modern cricket, and increase in pace would be at the cost of flight, accuracy, spin. 

 

Bedi had SR of 80+, Chandra 65. So he wasn't a strike bowler back then. 

 

We tend to overrate the past. Respect them sure, but stop weaving mythical stories about their ability. 

 

Spinners are good as long as they are allowed to be good. Back in those days they were allowed to be good. There was an Irani Trophy final between ROI and Mumbai.  19 year old unknown boy named Vengsarkar started an incredible assault against Bedi and Prasanna. They had no clue against the assault. Vengsarkar made 110 runs.  Similarly Zaheer Abbas did the same against them. In modern cricket they would have been swept all over. 

[Gollum]

7 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Spinners are good as long as they are allowed to be good. Back in those days they were allowed to be good. There was an Irani Trophy final between ROI and Mumbai.  19 year old unknown boy named Vengsarkar started an incredible assault against Bedi and Prasanna. They had no clue against the assault. Vengsarkar made 110 runs.  Similarly Zaheer Abbas did the same against them. In modern cricket they would have been swept all over. 

In modern cricket, they would have adapted. 

 

That's why very difficult to compare across eras, that too in this case almost half a century apart. Bedi debuted in 1966, Jaddu in 2012. 

[vvvslaxman]

12 minutes ago, Gollum said:

In modern cricket, they would have adapted. 

 

That's why very difficult to compare across eras, that too in this case almost half a century apart. Bedi debuted in 1966, Jaddu in 2012. 

 

yes. As long as they adapted to their period they are good. We don't even include world no.1 bowler in the line up these days when we tour overseas. But we played 4 spinners in A ustralia back then. Now we use 4 fast bowlers. Genuine bowlers. Not part time seamers like Mohinder. After Zaheer Abbas's onslaught they faded away. One guy i would fancy to be highly successful is Chandra. This weasel chahal had his moments. Even Shamzi reached no.1 ranking.  He is too unique to fail in any era.

[nevada]

43 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

 

Bedi had significantly greater flight & loop and spun the ball a lot more. In a way, he was the leftie spinner version of dale steyn - his stock delivery was, like steyn, the one that looped in to the batsman, pitched on middle & off and left the batsmen. 

Jadeja is a far more darter of a bowler, with significantly greater speed than Bedi, who also bowls more wicket to wicket than Bedi. Bedi was a better bowler IMO by some distance, as i can see Bedi picking up wickets today, as his stock ball would get wickets against any team in any era. Jadeja however, if transported back 40 years, would struggle to average below 35, as batsmen were far more comfortable defending back then and he doesn't have enough flight or movement to spin to trouble batsmen with a solid defensive game.

 

Also, Bedi didn't mind "purchasing" wickets, conceding some runs before luring batsmen to play a false shot. He successfully played first class cricket in England as well as Australia, which is a testament to his all condition efficacy. 

[Gollum]

18 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

yes. As long as they adapted to their period they are good. We don't even include world no.1 bowler in the line up these days when we tour overseas. But we played 4 spinners in A ustralia back then. Now we use 4 fast bowlers. Genuine bowlers. Not part time seamers like Mohinder. After Zaheer Abbas's onslaught they faded away. One guy i would fancy to be highly successful is Chandra. This weasel chahal had his moments. Even Shamzi reached no.1 ranking.  He is too unique to fail in any era.

Yeah, Chandra was a special bowler. Him and Underwood, I back to succeed in this era. 

[putrevus]

Jadeja is  superior to Bedi.Bedi might have had flight but he was too slow, even in his hey days he was a holding bowler.

 

Jadeja could do well in Bedi's place but Bedi would not have done well in place of Jadeja.As he gets bite fromt he wicket.

 

Bedi could flight the ball but when faced with quality players of spin like they did in 1978 tour of Pakistan or even against WI in 1974.If they faced with short boundaries and big bats of today they would be toast.

 

Ashwin and Jadeja are better than all those spinners.

 

Only guy in that fab four was Chandra who could win match on his day.But he was very inconsistent.

Edited March 16 by putrevus

[Real McCoy]

Bedi was the classic SLA whereas Jadeja lands the ball on the spot day after day. But Bedi's work goes beyond retirement lol. His exploits after retirement were noteworthy calling Murali a chucker was entertaining and accurate if you think about it.

[Vijy]

7 hours ago, Gollum said:

Yeah, Chandra was a special bowler. Him and Underwood, I back to succeed in this era. 

also shivalkar IMO. had more bite than bedi, and also more accuracy and turn.

[Vijy]

19 hours ago, Lord said:

 

Why didn't he play for India? politics?

pretty much. Goel was another one hard done by, but Goel was mostly a prototype of jaddu. metronome who could be deadly on helpful pitches. shivalkar was more of a warne type - raised his game in clutch matches, out-thought and/or intimidated-out batters, etc. not saying he was as good as warne, obviously, just that he was of a similar type.

[vvvslaxman]

12 minutes ago, Vijy said:

pretty much. Goel was another one hard done by, but Goel was mostly a prototype of jaddu. metronome who could be deadly on helpful pitches. shivalkar was more of a warne type - raised his game in clutch matches, out-thought and/or intimidated-out batters, etc. not saying he was as good as warne, obviously, just that he was of a similar type.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/bishan-bedi-on-rajinder-goel-don-t-think-his-ranji-trophy-record-will-ever-be-broken-1225452

 

Bishan Bedi on Rajinder Goel: 'Don't think his Ranji Trophy record will ever be broken'

 

He was a tremendous bowler. It is very unfortunate he couldn't' play for India because Bishan was there at the same time. Bishan [himself] said that he was better than him. That's a great tribute.

Edited March 16 by vvvslaxman

[Vijy]

4 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/bishan-bedi-on-rajinder-goel-don-t-think-his-ranji-trophy-record-will-ever-be-broken-1225452

 

Bishan Bedi on Rajinder Goel: 'Don't think his Ranji Trophy record will ever be broken'

 

He was a tremendous bowler. It is very unfortunate he couldn't' play for India because Bishan was there at the same time. Bishan [himself] said that he was better than him. That's a great tribute.

I saw all 3 in ranjis in 60s/early 70s. My ranking: shivalkar > bedi = goel