VVS Laxman never played an ODI world cup game

[Ultimate_Game]

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

 

That batting was non-existent after #5.

 

India never had strong batting line up for ODIs because of lower middle order.

 

That's why I consider Dhoni as one of the biggest change in ODI lineup.

 

 

Dhoni was the main reason India could finally chase. Before him "Bat first" was the way to go as our middle and late order couldn't be counted for anything. With Dhoni, and later Raina at 7, along with Yuvraj made for our strongest middle order ever. No wonder we won 3 tourneys under Dhoni between 2007 and 2013.

 

Finally we went with batting depth in the recent WT20 thanks to Axar and Pandya and we won the tourney. It was the top heavy approach post Dhoni which cost us so many tourneys as there was no depth and we couldn't bring in an extra batsman as batsmen couldn't roll their arms over unlike Sehwag, Raina, Yuvraj.

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, zen said:

No point in speculating on 2003 as that Aus team found a way to decimate Asian teams in the final:

 

1999 Pak

2003 Ind

2007 SL

 

All that the fans of these 3 teams can do is devote time to think if X had happened or if y had not happened!

Only Sri Lankans can walk with their heads held high. Gave a scare to Aussies in 2007 final during Sanath-Sanga partnership. Did well in 2003 SF, beat them in that epic 1996 WC final. Also in that period, knocked them out in 2002 CT SF. Underrated team unlike the other noisy SC teams. 

[Gollum]

Let India win once against Aussies in an ICC final, then we can talk about various theories. We all remember November 19th. 

 

Toughest task in cricket, only WI, SL and Eng have achieved this feat. 

[Norman]

29 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Let India win once against Aussies in an ICC final, then we can talk about various theories. We all remember November 19th. 

 

Toughest task in cricket, only WI, SL and Eng have achieved this feat. 

 

Damn I just realised that those mfs played 13 ICC tournament finals and lost just 3. 

 

Ridiculous record to have ! 

 

Meanwhile we too have played 13 finals but lost 7 of them. 

[Laaloo]

1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Dhoni was the main reason India could finally chase. Before him "Bat first" was the way to go as our middle and late order couldn't be counted for anything. With Dhoni, and later Raina at 7, along with Yuvraj made for our strongest middle order ever. No wonder we won 3 tourneys under Dhoni between 2007 and 2013.

 

Finally we went with batting depth in the recent WT20 thanks to Axar and Pandya and we won the tourney. It was the top heavy approach post Dhoni which cost us so many tourneys as there was no depth and we couldn't bring in an extra batsman as batsmen couldn't roll their arms over unlike Sehwag, Raina, Yuvraj.

Before dhoni, yuvraj was the difference maker. He showed how to beat Australia in icc knockout matches. 

[Suhaan]

44 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Only Sri Lankans can walk with their heads held high. Gave a scare to Aussies in 2007 final during Sanath-Sanga partnership. Did well in 2003 SF, beat them in that epic 1996 WC final. Also in that period, knocked them out in 2002 CT SF. Underrated team unlike the other noisy SC teams. 

They did compete against them well in that era,most don't tell ,why?

They were a terrific fielding side

[Gollum]

10 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

They did compete against them well in that era,most don't tell ,why?

They were a terrific fielding side

Many all rounders (used to have 8 bowling options and bat till 9-10), spin stranglehold in middle overs, tactically top notch (high IQ street smart captains), fielding, clutchness etc.

[Gollum]

23 minutes ago, Laaloo said:

Before dhoni, yuvraj was the difference maker. He showed how to beat Australia in icc knockout matches. 

Also Sachin in 1998 mini WC QF, 2008 CB series.

 

Yuvraj in MO gave another dimension to our team against Aussies.

[Gollum]

Time to forget about 2003 final after what happened on Nov 19th, 1000 times bigger heartbreak and humiliation. Thank you Dravid and Rohit.

[zen]

16 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Time to forget about 2003 final after what happened on Nov 19th, 1000 times bigger heartbreak and humiliation. Thank you Dravid and Rohit.

 

When there are many things to celebrate in sports including wins, there is no point in dwelling on losses. 

 

Analyze how you performed, take those learnings, attempt to improve, prepare, and move on to the next battle. 

 

[Trichromatic]

11 hours ago, Laaloo said:

Before dhoni, yuvraj was the difference maker. He showed how to beat Australia in icc knockout matches. 

 

Yuvraj was very inconsistent before Dhoni became his partner.

[R!TTER]

13 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Dhoni was the main reason India could finally chase. Before him "Bat first" was the way to go as our middle and late order couldn't be counted for anything. With Dhoni, and later Raina at 7, along with Yuvraj made for our strongest middle order ever. No wonder we won 3 tourneys under Dhoni between 2007 and 2013.

 

Finally we went with batting depth in the recent WT20 thanks to Axar and Pandya and we won the tourney. It was the top heavy approach post Dhoni which cost us so many tourneys as there was no depth and we couldn't bring in an extra batsman as batsmen couldn't roll their arms over unlike Sehwag, Raina, Yuvraj.

It was Yuvraj then Dhoni, the "chase master" thing also started under Dravid where we won a still standing record 19(?) games chasing in a row. A a lot of you are also forgetting how difficult was chasing with just one new ball in the pre T20 era - heck with the one new ball it would be just as hard today in 50 overs on slow tracks! And no WI were no pushover, FFS they won a CT in Eng

Opposition team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

Start of match date between 1 Jan 2005 and 31 Dec 2011

Innings in match 2nd innings

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 2000

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
GC Smith (SA)	2005-2011	52	52	5	2279	141	48.48	2534	89.93	5	16	2	269	14
MS Dhoni (IND)	2005-2011	87	75	24	2406	183*	47.17	2887	83.33	1	17	3	186	46
Yuvraj Singh (IND)	2005-2011	79	75	18	2379	121	41.73	2861	83.15	2	16	3	255	37

[MechEng]

On 5/29/2024 at 7:39 PM, Gollum said:

No matter who played tough to see us beating that Aus team especially chasing. 

 

Even against ATG Ind XI I'll give a clear edge to 2003 Aus.

 

Forget ATG Ind XI, that Aussie side would have comfortably defeated Clive Lloyd's team as well.

 

Greatest ODI side to have ever played the game.

[Laaloo]

6 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Yuvraj was very inconsistent before Dhoni became his partner.

Doesn't matter. Yuvi showed what it took to win knockout matches.

 

2000 CT SF against Australia 

2003 NatWest Final

2007 T20 SF against Australia 

 

Dhoni has hardly done anything in ODIs apart from WC Final where yuvi didn't get a chance to bat.

[Ultimate_Game]

20 hours ago, R!TTER said:

It was Yuvraj then Dhoni, the "chase master" thing also started under Dravid where we won a still standing record 19(?) games chasing in a row. A a lot of you are also forgetting how difficult was chasing with just one new ball in the pre T20 era - heck with the one new ball it would be just as hard today in 50 overs on slow tracks! And no WI were no pushover, FFS they won a CT in Eng

Opposition team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

Start of match date between 1 Jan 2005 and 31 Dec 2011

Innings in match 2nd innings

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 2000

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
GC Smith (SA)	2005-2011	52	52	5	2279	141	48.48	2534	89.93	5	16	2	269	14
MS Dhoni (IND)	2005-2011	87	75	24	2406	183*	47.17	2887	83.33	1	17	3	186	46
Yuvraj Singh (IND)	2005-2011	79	75	18	2379	121	41.73	2861	83.15	2	16	3	255	37

 

Yuvraj improved when he started batting with Dhoni. Before Dhoni Yuvraj was highly inconsistent, probably due to the fact that there weren't any decent batsmen to follow. Dhoni was the player we were looking for when we saw likes of Bevan win matches while chasing. He lent us the steel lower down the order and along with Yuvraj, and later Raina was the reason India started winning while chasing.

 

Before  Dhoni if we were 4 wkts down and needed more than 70 to win, the match was almost lost. With Dhoni around even if we were say 80/4 while chasing, we were in it. He was the catalyst who made us good at chasing and reinforced the philosophy of playing with 7 batsmen just like Ganguly did when he made Dravid keep wkts to add depth. It's unfortunate we went away from the proven template which resulted in our "lost decade" by going with RCB template of being top heavy and playing with only 5-6 batsmen. The moment we reverted to the old formula by adding depth, we won the WT20.

[Jaydev_Unadkat]

On 5/29/2024 at 10:48 AM, AKane said:

Well somehow we had to play Dinesh Mongia .... for some reason.

It wasnt really without reason tho. Dinesh scored 150+ as an opener so they pocked him to cover all bases and he could bowl decent SLA. Much much better fielder than vvs too.

Also YUVI was a high potential uet highly inconsistent 20s averaging batter even at that time. So I think it was a fair call. 
 

You can compare it to Rayudu getting short changed for 2019 wc maybe.

Edited September 9, 2024 by Jaydev_Unadkat

[Gollum]

Dinesh Mongia ultimately got caught in the fixing web in ICL. Lou Vincent was the biggest casualty in that but Mongia too was a ringleader. 

[rollingstoned]

9 minutes ago, Jaydev_Unadkat said:

It wasnt really without reason tho. Dinesh scored 150+ as an opener so they pocked him to cover all bases and he could bowl decent SLA. Much much better fielder than vvs too.

Also YUVI was a high potential uet highly inconsistent 20s averaging batter even at that time. So I think it was a fair call. 
 

You can compare it to Rayudu getting short changed for 2019 wc maybe.

He had a clutch daddy 100 in a series decider against Zim at home iirc. We were pushed to the edge in that series with Dougie marillier winning them a match when they needed something like 12 rpo playing cricket that was ahead of it's time.

[putrevus]

On 9/7/2024 at 10:28 AM, Gollum said:

That too day match in England, no chance of dew.......almost all day matches in 2019 WC were won by team batting first because pitch used to slow down in 2nd innings.

 

And against poyzzzz who can't handle chasing pressure in big games, then giving them two spinners to feast on after Umesh had terrorized them in the group game with his pacy short pitched stuff. 

What was Umesh doing on Oval vs Srilanka, when he leaked 67 runs with no wickets on the same  Oval ground.

 

I forgot  he could not  bowl short pitched bowling then but he would magically bowl great against Pakistan.

 

It was the right call to bowl first.

 

India bowled first against Pakistan in CT 2013 and also world cup 2023.Last time I checked India won both matches.

Edited September 9, 2024 by putrevus

[Gollum]

10 hours ago, putrevus said:

What was Umesh doing on Oval vs Srilanka, when he leaked 67 runs with no wickets on the same  Oval ground.

 

I forgot  he could not  bowl short pitched bowling then but he would magically bowl great against Pakistan.

 

It was the right call to bowl first.

 

India bowled first against Pakistan in CT 2013 and also world cup 2023.Last time I checked India won both matches.

CT 2013 rain affected game, overcast conditions

2023 WC Ahmedabad, enough said

 

Using Umesh logic, Kohli shouldn't have played the recent T20 WC final, because he failed in group game in Barbados (against Afg), venue of final.