Which Steve was the more tough batsman? Waugh or Smith?

[Gollum]

Steve Waugh was almost equal to SRT and Lara in the 90s, no mean feat. In tests, personally rate him above Ponting who had more of a Kohli type career. 

[Gollum]

2 hours ago, AKane said:

Post 2017-18 bowlers barring Bumrah have been the weakest in non-Aus countries.

 

Steyn was a much declined bowler after 2017-18. Anderson/Broad after that were in mid 30s. The Windies/Pak/SL are finished as a team. NZ is NZ. 

What do you mean NZ is NZ? This NZ is miles apart from 90s NZ....an attack of Boult/Southee/Henry/Wagner on green carpets is a nightmare proposition. 

 

Anderson/Broad even in their old age were leagues ahead of 90s English bowlers....the greatest swing bowler of all time and a maverick seamer who was an improved version of Bob Willis.

 

In recent RSA pitches, likes of Rabada, Philander, Ngidi, Abbot, Olivier, Burger, Jansen are no less threatening than Donald/Pollock. Rabada in fact will end his career in the Donald/Steyn class. 

 

For most of 90s, the Lankan teams Steve Waugh faced had a popgun attack and their tracks were made to get draws for the home side. 

 

India had its greatest ever bowling attack in Smith's era, led by a captain who had a take 20 wickets philosophy. Yet he got some 11-12 centuries against us, most of them match/series winning, one even WTC winning. 

 

Only that Pak and WI were better. 

Edited March 6, 2025 by Gollum

[putrevus]

Ponting was head and shoulder above Steve Waugh as a batsman. 

 

Steve Waugh was gutsy batsman who put his body on line but no way he is close to Ponting.

 

Ponting on other hand might be behind  Bradman, Steve Smith. Greg Chappell is debatable .

Edited March 6, 2025 by putrevus

[Gollum]

Just now, putrevus said:

Ponting was head and shoulder above Steve Waugh as a batsman. 

 

Steve Waugh was gutsy batsman who put his body on line but no way he is close to Ponting.

 

Ponting on other might be behind  Bradman, Steve Smith. Greg Chappell is debatable .

Ponting had a glorious run from 2002 to 2007/08, in the most batting friendly era of all time, playing for a GOAT side. Either side of that, very mediocre. And plenty of holes in his resume, especially his record in away BGT and Ashes even in his prime years. More talented and dominating for sure, but he fell off pretty hard in his final 4-5 years when his side became weaker.

 

Waugh took them to the top in early-mid 90s, toppling WI's 2 decades long reign. 

 

Border was the toughest of them all, playing for a **** Aussie team and often being the lone warrior. His fight against peak WI of 80s, his consistency, gritty nature, leadership etc. paved the way for Aussie dominance that was to come in the 90s. Very underrated cricketer. 

[Stan AF]

32 minutes ago, diga said:

Wasnt he called John Wayne for eyeballing Ambrose ? 

Naah he went one step above and sweared at him. :stupid:

Ambrose didn't hear it at first and then he came back and asked him did you just swear at me?

 

Andthen he proceeded to threaten Steve and he had to be dragged away by the the windies captain Richie Richardson.

 

 

 

Good old 90s

 

 

Edited March 6, 2025 by Stan AF

[Stan AF]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/may/07/curtly-ambrose-wanted-to-knock-out-steve-waugh

 

Lol

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Ponting had a glorious run from 2002 to 2007/08, in the most batting friendly era of all time, playing for a GOAT side. Either side of that, very mediocre. And plenty of holes in his resume, especially his record in away BGT and Ashes even in his prime years. More talented and dominating for sure, but he fell off pretty hard in his final 4-5 years when his side became weaker.

 

Waugh took them to the top in early-mid 90s, toppling WI's 2 decades long reign. 

 

Border was the toughest of them all, playing for a **** Aussie team and often being the lone warrior. His fight against peak WI of 80s, his consistency, gritty nature, leadership etc. paved the way for Aussie dominance that was to come in the 90s. Very underrated cricketer. 

So what great things Steve Waugh did, he took forever to score his first 100.England was at his weakest in 1990s.Other than one good series against WI in 1995, he struggled mightly against full WI teams before that series.Once WI lost most of  its firepower power he made merry against them.

 

 

Steve Waugh's team lost BGT to an Indian team which had one bowler in Bhajji.

 

As a captain Waugh did not take Aussies anywhere, Mark Taylor was the captain when Australia defeated WI in 1995.Steve Waugh had strongest Australian team when he was the captain.Ponting as a captain won with weaker teams.

 

Every player has holes in their resume. It is like saying Mohinder Amarnath was better player than Sunil Gavaskar as he handled pace bowling better in 1983.

 

Steve Waugh and Border were gritty and tough players but they are no way in the class of Ponting. 

 

It is not like Steve Waugh scored so many more runs than Ponting either.Other than his Eden Gardens 100 Steve waugh did not do much in India either that too facing lot weaker Indian teams.

 

Ponting at his peak was unstoppable force, yes he had his issues with spin so what, Border if he faced up against  spinners of Bhajji, Kumble or Ashwin was not scoring runs in India either.Indian teams during Ponting's era became a dominating force at home.

 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2025 by putrevus

[singhvivek141]

As a batsman, Steve Smith is better.

 

Steve Waugh was mentally stronger comparatively, but no one can deny that he had some of the world class batters (and bowlers) in his team.

[AKane]

10 hours ago, Gollum said:

In recent RSA pitches, likes of Rabada, Philander, Ngidi, Abbot, Olivier, Burger, Jansen are no less threatening than Donald/Pollock. Rabada in fact will end his career in the Donald/Steyn class. 

Now we were speaking about after 2017-18 and Saffie pitches.

 

Steyn last played Aus in 2016

Morkel retired in 2018

 

Philander last played a series against Aus  in 2018

Kyle Abbot signed the Kolpak in 2017 ending his test career. 

Olivier has never played a test vs Aus

Burger has never played a test vs Aus

Ngidi has played 3 (2 in Aus) and Jansen 3 (all in Aus)

 

So I said basically Rabada.

 

Actually Rabada is much much better than Donald and Pollock vs Aus. Rabada even better than Steyn.

 

But 90's Aus batsmen except for Ambrose/Walsh/Bishop and Akram handled most other pace bowlers very well.

 

Ambrose has 128 out of 405 wickets vs Aus at 21.23   whereas Donald averaged 31.08 vs Aus and Pollock a horrible 36.85. What a monster Ambrose was..... As a ref Srinath averaged 42.33 vs Aus.

 

 

 

 

[NameGoesHere]

Waugh. 

 

As batsmen Smith would shade it in terms of numbers, and even flair.

 

But Waugh was the original tough guy, admantine hard, unbending.

 

You cant  get to Smith's level without being tough.  But Waugh man, he was something else.

 

 

[Gollum]

Speaking about mental toughness, Smith has the best ICC KO record in ODIs, and a 100 in a WTC final. Do not underestimate his mentality, also the uncanny habit of somehow staying at the crease no matter how out of sorts he looks like, is unprecedented. 

 

Waugh was technically limited, hence had to bat ugly to get his runs. Smith has everything, still if needed he will grind out runs in the most painful and ugly way possible.

Edited March 7, 2025 by Gollum

[MechEng]

@Gollum I think we are underrating Ponting by comparing him with Kohli.

 

Ponting was the best player of raw pace after Viv in the game.

[diga]

1 hour ago, MechEng said:

@Gollum I think we are underrating Ponting by comparing him with Kohli.

 

Ponting was the best player of raw pace after Viv in the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU8mb7Nj9xU - srinath injures ponting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8MUpjgJTqY - Steve Harmison

 

He was better than a lot but not really the best... Lara/Carl Hooper/ even Sachin did have their moments in the sun

[nevada]

32 minutes ago, diga said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU8mb7Nj9xU - srinath injures ponting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8MUpjgJTqY - Steve Harmison

 

He was better than a lot but not really the best... Lara/Carl Hooper/ even Sachin did have their moments in the sun

Carl Hooper seemed to have plenty of time facing the ball. But then he is an underachiever with average numbers for all that talent. 

[MechEng]

3 hours ago, diga said:

 

He was better than a lot but not really the best... Lara/Carl Hooper/ even Sachin did have their moments in the sun

 

Ab yeh bhi dekh lo

 

 

If we keep considering isolated cases, then Laxman too got bowled by Krejza.

 

No batsman in the game dominated raw pace like Ponting did in the last 30 years, not even Tendulkar and Lara.

 

[diga]

1 hour ago, MechEng said:

 

Ab yeh bhi dekh lo

 

If we keep considering isolated cases, then Laxman too got bowled by Krejza.

 

No batsman in the game dominated raw pace like Ponting did in the last 30 years, not even Tendulkar and Lara.

 

Isnt that what I said ? Almost every great batsmen had his day in the sun ... be it Sachin or Lara

[rkt.india]

On 3/6/2025 at 11:21 AM, Zero_Unit said:

It's mind boggling how this guy came into australia as *Warne's* replacement (i guess) but ended up being one of the greatest batsmen to play the game. This was a new for me. I would go with smith. If only he had continued with the ball aswell, would have ended his career as a legendary all rounder. 

He was always a batsman. Bowling wrist spin was just a way to get into the Aussie side.

Edited March 8, 2025 by rkt.india

[rkt.india]

On 3/6/2025 at 8:47 PM, AKane said:

Post 2017-18 bowlers barring Bumrah have been the weakest in non-Aus countries.

 

Steyn was a much declined bowler after 2017-18. Anderson/Broad after that were in mid 30s. The Windies/Pak/SL are finished as a team. NZ is NZ. 

 

So Bumrah and Rabada. And Rabada with no Steyn is not as effective. Rabada is not a spearhead, more like the second to spearhead.

 

The bowlers in 90s with Wasim/Waqar and then Shoaib and  Ambrose/Walsh/Bishop and Donald/Pollock were a handful.

 

This is 20/20 era. Pure pace with quality has declined recently - the bowlers to rival the pace of previous years have reduced. Wagner's short pitched bowling created problems in 2019 or 2020. Bouncers by Wagner? Please......

 

 

Rabada is the fastest to 300 wickets in number of tests. He is good a spearhead as any.  Pak, SL were not that good test side even in 90s. Windies started declining from 94 onwards. 

[BacktoCricaddict]

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