Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[express bowling]

46 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

Unfortunately pace after bounce or when it reaches the batsmen..that data is not prominently available..else that will give more idea about trundler cutoff..

as 140kph of some bowler will reach at 123kph to the batsmen and 136kph of another bowler may reach at 124kph..

additionally depending upon pace of the deck..this cutoff can be increased/decreased..

moreover..I feel for hit the deck,bounce,good height bowler..the cutoff can be reduced..as they will still trouble the bowler at little less pace

 

 

Very true.  Skiddy pacers or bouncy pacers can be effective at slightly lesser release speeds.

 

But I think the reduction in speeds is a little more on reaching the batter.  In the 15 kph to 35 kph range depending on the surface, the seam position of the bowler, wind speed, release distance etc.

 

In fact, if a standard pacer, releasing the ball at 140 k reaches the batter at 115 k and a skiddy pacer releasing the ball at 135 k reaches the batter at 115 k ... this 2nd pacer will feel quicker to the batsman due to the deception factor.

 

Nowadays, it has become all about release speeds but there is so much more to consistently hurrying and frightening the batters than just high release speeds. 

 

Someone like a Bumrah, who releases the ball well past the bowling crease and has hyperextension, feels much quicker to the batter than other 145 k pacers like him.

Edited November 3, 2022 by express bowling

[Mesky99]

28 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Who is the guy on the right next to Porel ?

Sai Kishore, he's around 6'3, tallest spinner after Nilesh Kulkarni, spinner from South India always tend to be tall.

[Need4Speed]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Very true.  Skiddy pacers or bouncy pacers can be effective at slightly lesser release speeds.

 

But I think the reduction in speeds is a little more on reaching the batter.  In the 15 kph to 35 kph range depending on the surface, the seam position of the bowler, wind speed, release distance etc.

 

In fact, if a standard pacer, releasing the ball at 140 k reaches the batter at 115 k and a skiddy pacer releasing the ball at 135 k reaches the batter at 115 k ... this 2nd pacer will feel quicker to the batsman due to the deception factor.

 

Now, it has become all about release speeds but there is so much more to hurrying and frightening the batters than just high release speeds. 

 

Someone like a Bumrah, who releases the ball well past the bowling crease and has hyperextension, feels much quicker to the batter than other 145 k pacers like him.

Oh yes..Very well explained..yes these many factors highlight the fact that if you are a trundler in terms of just pace of the hand..then  you need some additional weapons in your armory to be effective..

and no..slow balls for trundler is not one of them..

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, Mesky99 said:

Sai Kishore, he's around 6'3, tallest spinner after Nilesh Kulkarni, spinner from South India always tend to be tall.

 

 

Why is it in India that we have so many tall spinners and batters and so many short pacers !!

 

In most countries the " Height of pacers to height of the rest of the team " ratio is significantly more than 1.

 

India has the lowest  " Height of pacers to height of the rest of the team " ratio.

Edited November 3, 2022 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

25 minutes ago, Mesky99 said:

Sai Kishore, he's around 6'3, tallest spinner after Nilesh Kulkarni, spinner from South India always tend to be tall.

He is probably 6'4. Porel and arshdeep are 6'3

[Need4Speed]

47 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Why is it in India that we have so many tall spinners and batters and so many short pacers !!

 

In most countries the " Height of pacers to height of the rest of the team" ratio is significantly more than 1.

 

India has the lowest  " Height of pacers to height of the rest of the team" ratio.

May be they just have longer lega and not so athletic required for pace bowling rythm/runup..just a wild guess

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

May be they just have longer lega and not so athletic required for pace bowling rythm/runup..just a wild guess

 

We were picking tall pacers from 1989 to 2008.

 

Chronologically from 1989 to 2008

 

Tall .....

 

Ankola 

Wassan 

Srinath

Prasad

Vaidya

Kuruvilla

Ganesh 

Nehra

Munaf

VRV 

Sudip Tyagi

RP Singh

Ishant

 

 

Almost tall  ....

 

Razdan

Mohanty

Zaheer

Balaji

Irfan 

 

 

Then it all changed

 

Umesh, Aaron, Bhuvi, Shami, Mohit Sharma, Bumrah, Shardul, Deepak C, Siraj, Harshal, Umran  all 5'8" to 6'0". 

 

6'6" Pankaj Singh hardly played. 6'2" Ishwar Pandey or 6'3" Ankit Rajpoot did not get any chances as swing bowlers. 

 

[Need4Speed]

12 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

Shadab,Afridi Pak always produce legspin all rounders.

One needs to be mentally strong and agressive..that helps..

I dont see most of our bowlers are like that..

[Vk1]

though its  harsh on the player, I feel that match ka mujrim/negative outlier kind of metric has to be captured in T20s.. and see which player is repeatedly coming into that bucket..  ( Rahane in 2016 SF and Y Chahal in 2019 SF kind of performances.. I don't know about stats but Bhuvi must be there for sure in this list.. avg batting strikerate is 135 and one player eats balls and has SR of 110.. bowling rpo of 7 and one guy goes at 10+ rpo )

Edited November 3, 2022 by Vk1

[vishalvirsingh]

On 11/2/2022 at 8:08 PM, rkt.india said:

Bumrah, Siraj, Prasidh, Arshdeep, Umran, Kartik, Mohsin, Kuldeep is a good group of fast bowlers to work with for selectors and team management. 

Add Yash dayal, Khaleel and Navdeep Saini.

[Lone Wolf]

Very shocking that Yash Dayal was picked over Khaleel in BD tour...  Seems like Khaleel & Tyagi are not even close to the selection radar.  Hopefully Tyagi gets selected for BD A tour which will be just before Test series Ig

[Nikhil_cric]

Just saw Arshdeep's interview with Irfan Pathan.  Finally some good news. He is straightening his run up out .

 

This is something that was absolutely necessary. Hopefully he can get proper momentum transfer and bowl with more accuracy. 

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

Very shocking that Yash Dayal was picked over Khaleel in BD tour...  Seems like Khaleel & Tyagi are not even close to the selection radar.  Hopefully Tyagi gets selected for BD A tour which will be just before Test series Ig

Khaleel I guess has fallen out of the pecking order due to his past instance with Indian Cricket, when he was bowling gingerly at Munaf's pace. His fielding is also Munaf's level and that's another big drawback for someone who can't even bat properly.

Most of the names in list are decent to good fielder, and these days it's criminal to have an abysmal fielder in the team who don't even contribute with the bat. Bumrah used to be a poor fielder but his fielding has really came along in few years.

If I recall correctly from the list mentioned above, apart from Prasidh everyone is either a decent to good fielder or can contribute a bit with bat. Tyagi is unfortunate as he's also a good fielder.

Edited November 4, 2022 by singhvivek141

[Lone Wolf]

13 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Khaleel I guess has fallen out of the pecking order due to his past instance with Indian Cricket, when he was bowling gingerly at Munaf's pace. His fielding is also Munaf's level and that's another big drawback for someone who can't even bat properly.

Most of the names in list are decent to good fielder, and these days it's criminal to have an abysmal fielder in the team who don't even contribute with the bat. Bumrah used to be a poor fielder but his fielding has really came along in few years.

If I recall correctly from the list mentioned above, apart from Prasidh everyone is either a decent to good fielder or can contribute a bit with bat. Tyagi is unfortunate as he's also a good fielder.

I guess Umran & Sen are also bit lazy in the field...  In the Irani Trophy game there were few fumbles from them.  Hopefully they are working on that. 

Fielding in NZ would be tricky for them...  Even our best drop dozens of catches there. 

[the don]

Cummins hitting 90 mph today. 
Giving his all.

[Suhaan]

13 minutes ago, the don said:

Cummins hitting 90 mph today. 
Giving his all.

As i have said he hasn't lost pace

 

For past 3-4 years he's bowling like this,he bends his back when situation arises

[MCcricket]

On 11/3/2022 at 2:28 AM, express bowling said:

 

We were picking tall pacers from 1989 to 2008.

 

Chronologically from 1989 to 2008

 

Tall .....

 

Ankola 

Wassan 

Srinath

Prasad

Vaidya

Kuruvilla

Ganesh 

Nehra

Munaf

VRV 

Sudip Tyagi

RP Singh

Ishant

 

 

Almost tall  ....

 

Razdan

Mohanty

Zaheer

Balaji

Irfan 

 

 

Then it all changed

 

Umesh, Aaron, Bhuvi, Shami, Mohit Sharma, Bumrah, Shardul, Deepak C, Siraj, Harshal, Umran  all 5'8" to 6'0". 

 

6'6" Pankaj Singh hardly played. 6'2" Ishwar Pandey or 6'3" Ankit Rajpoot did not get any chances as swing bowlers. 

 

Think there is a big reason for this, the knowledge of bio mechanics among youngsters and coaches, also sports is much more attractive and with IPL rewards. Earlier few people took up fast bowling unless they had required physical traits per old school of thought.

 

India is under utilizing its talent and had been for quite a long time, smaller centers and teams are now more visible and players getting more exposure helps a lot. For me Umran Malik Kuldeep Sen is a must looking at the future, every team needs enforcers, who can scare with pace and run through line ups, skill bowlers who can bowl like Shami and Steyn.

 

Nagarkoti and Mavi hopefully are not wasted like Varun Aaron and Sudeep Tyagi.

 

Mohsin, Dayal, Khalil if he has made mental adjustments, Umran, Kuldeep Sen, Mavi should be in our selectors radar for grooming to replace existing bowlers. 

[Vilander]

9 hours ago, Suhaan said:

As i have said he hasn't lost pace

 

For past 3-4 years he's bowling like this,he bends his back when situation arises

Hallmark of a great bowler. Steyn was similar.

[Suhaan]

Wood averages 148+ in t20s in 2022

 

Stupendous

Hands down , fastest in the world in terms of pace and average pace

[Mosher]

20 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Wood averages 148+ in t20s in 2022

 

Stupendous

Hands down , fastest in the world in terms of pace and average pace