Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Chakdephatte]

5 hours ago, ind_hyd1 said:

Was quite shocked with his speeds. After the Ranji trophy game against be gal remember ishan pirel who was the man of the match making special mention of Shivam mavi saying that he was genuinely quick and troubled all the batters

 

He goes through motions. We have seen it in IPL.

[MCcricket]

Sadly for me Mavi is a phattu bowler, he will be a letdown as far as bowling with pace. He had the capacity but doesn't have the conviction or courage, in the long run he will lose out because of his mindset. We have better option then him, I might be wrong but that is what I see.

[Vijy]

9 hours ago, SRT100 said:

 

Thompson was genuinely fast and as fast if not the fastest for his time, but I dont believe he was 160+

 

It brings up an interesting argument I have with mates, how Bradman never faced genuine fast bowlers like of the modern era, say compared to Tendulkar who faced multiple generations of fast bowlers, across a number of countries in a variety of conditions. Even Gavaskar for that matter faced terrifying fast bowling of the WI in the WI.

although bradman was facing 120-125 kph bowlers at max, there are two big negatives: one was the uncovered pitches (some were mud sludges) and the other was lack of proper protective gear. without these two (pitch protection and batter protection), as anyone who has played cricket knows, even a 120 kph ball striking the body causes substantial bruising, pain, and even injuries.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Vijy

[ind_hyd1]

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

How long ago ?

This seasons 1st match

[Vijy]

12 hours ago, sandeep said:

can't believe a thread on cricket and bowling devolved to multiple pages of "I know kungfu karate and other dangerous words".

I know I already responded (i.e., the bruce lee vs jackie chan tongue-in-cheek post), but I wanted to share a bit more of a down-to-earth post

 

In a nutstell, I'm a bit too old and jaded than many of the usual posters. Hence, most (but not all) times I see such tangents arise, I find them amusing and droll as long as they don't cross unacceptable lines; for the most part, this one didn't IMO.

 

with that said, I do feel a bit sorry for @express bowling that the thread got diverted temporarily. however, all 3 of us veterans of ICF know that this 1400+ page thread has witnessed some diversions before.

 

this seems like a good occasion to congratulate @express bowling and all the regular posters (e.g., @Mosher @raki05 @Suhaan @rkt.india @Vilander ) on this wonderful thread. I am old enough to remember the hype around Pandurang Salgaonkar (who was low 130s perhaps on avg page), and getting to Umran (with 145+ avg pace) has been a great journey. this thread must keep going as long as ICF continues because fast bowling is the life blood of cricket; it's what gets the adrenaline going, gets the spectators pumped, gets the batters rattled, and raises the morale of the fielding team. fast bowling is the beating heart of cricket, which has often lain dormant, but every now and then blooms to give a rare flower.

 

some of the regular posters could, in all seriousness, moonlight as talent scouts and/or advisors. in science (my domain), quite a few major projects have involved either large collaborations or have relied on citizen science. it is interesting to speculate about how much more quickly fast bowling may develop in India if, say, a similar approach were to be employed, and the pace bowling talent sought out and harnessed to the fullest.

 

thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Vijy

[Vijy]

10 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

How long ago ?

I know that even in recent VHT or SMT, on the slower domestic guns, he was clocking mid and high 130s regularly. in other words, on int'l pace guns, he should be hovering around 140 on avg pace.

 

mavi's trundling in this match was a conscious and deliberate choice - his decision to become the trundler prince clearly motivated by the many life lessons he learnt from all the trundler kings before him

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Vijy said:

I know that even in recent VHT or SMT, on the slower domestic guns, he was clocking mid and high 130s regularly. in other words, on int'l pace guns, he should be hovering around 140 on avg pace.

 

 

 

 

One thing I have noticed is that the speed guns used in SMAT are usually correct. 

 

And they are worst in Ranji where Fast-medium pacers often clock around 75 kmph ( not mph ) bowling normal deliveries.  And the next ball may clock 130 kmph. 

 

 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Vijy said:

I know that even in recent VHT or SMT, on the slower domestic guns, he was clocking mid and high 130s regularly. in other words, on int'l pace guns, he should be hovering around 140 on avg pace.

 

mavi's trundling in this match was a conscious and deliberate choice - his decision to become the trundler prince clearly motivated by the many life lessons he learnt from all the trundler kings before him

 

I was watching Mavi in SMAT and he looked very similar to his debut T20I. No zip there either. 

 

He does not want to be quick but just wants to remain injury free.

[Pollack]

14 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

I was watching Mavi in SMAT and he looked very similar to his debut T20I. No zip there either. 

 

He does not want to be quick but just wants to remain injury free.

The question is how did he come into reckoning out of the blue? 

VHT and SMAT, according to stats, he was decent but not even close the best. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Pollack

[Suhaan]

3 minutes ago, Pollack said:

The question is how did he come into reckoning out of the blue? 

VHT and SMAT, according to stats, he was decent but not the best. 

Because he embraced Trundlism from Tearawayism

[speedracer]

2 hours ago, Vijy said:

I know I already responded (i.e., the bruce lee vs jackie chan tongue-in-cheek post), but I wanted to share a bit more of a down-to-earth post

 

In a nutstell, I'm a bit too old and jaded than many of the usual posters. Hence, most (but not all) times I see such tangents arise, I find them amusing and droll as long as they don't cross unacceptable lines; for the most part, this one didn't IMO.

 

with that said, I do feel a bit sorry for @express bowling that the thread got diverted temporarily. however, all 3 of us veterans of ICF know that this 1400+ page thread has witnessed some diversions before.

 

this seems like a good occasion to congratulate @express bowling and all the regular posters (e.g., @Mosher @raki05 @Suhaan @rkt.india @Vilander ) on this wonderful thread. I am old enough to remember the hype around Pandurang Salgaonkar (who was low 130s perhaps on avg page), and getting to Umran (with 145+ avg pace) has been a great journey. this thread must keep going as long as ICF continues because fast bowling is the life blood of cricket; it's what gets the adrenaline going, gets the spectators pumped, gets the batters rattled, and raises the morale of the fielding team. fast bowling is the beating heart of cricket, which has often lain dormant, but every now and then blooms to give a rare flower.

 

some of the regular posters could, in all seriousness, moonlight as talent scouts and/or advisors. in science (my domain), quite a few major projects have involved either large collaborations or have relied on citizen science. it is interesting to speculate about how much more quickly fast bowling may develop in India if, say, a similar approach were to be employed, and the pace bowling talent sought out and harnessed to the fullest.

 

thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Awesome stuff. Sorry to derail this sacred earlier. I do get riled up if someone underrates the talent we possess in India. 

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, Pollack said:

The question is how did he come into reckoning out of the blue? 

VHT and SMAT, according to stats, he was decent but not even close the best. 

Many of the front runners are/were injured...Prasidh, Mohsin, Khaleel, Kuldeep, Yash Dayal.
K Tyagi is not playing regularly.
Unadkut and Mukesh Kumar already are in mix. 

One thing which probably went in his favour that he's playing at lead pacer for UP alongside Ankit Rajpoot.
 

[singhvivek141]

4 hours ago, Vijy said:

I know I already responded (i.e., the bruce lee vs jackie chan tongue-in-cheek post), but I wanted to share a bit more of a down-to-earth post

 

In a nutstell, I'm a bit too old and jaded than many of the usual posters. Hence, most (but not all) times I see such tangents arise, I find them amusing and droll as long as they don't cross unacceptable lines; for the most part, this one didn't IMO.

 

with that said, I do feel a bit sorry for @express bowling that the thread got diverted temporarily. however, all 3 of us veterans of ICF know that this 1400+ page thread has witnessed some diversions before.

 

this seems like a good occasion to congratulate @express bowling and all the regular posters (e.g., @Mosher @raki05 @Suhaan @rkt.india @Vilander ) on this wonderful thread. I am old enough to remember the hype around Pandurang Salgaonkar (who was low 130s perhaps on avg page), and getting to Umran (with 145+ avg pace) has been a great journey. this thread must keep going as long as ICF continues because fast bowling is the life blood of cricket; it's what gets the adrenaline going, gets the spectators pumped, gets the batters rattled, and raises the morale of the fielding team. fast bowling is the beating heart of cricket, which has often lain dormant, but every now and then blooms to give a rare flower.

 

some of the regular posters could, in all seriousness, moonlight as talent scouts and/or advisors. in science (my domain), quite a few major projects have involved either large collaborations or have relied on citizen science. it is interesting to speculate about how much more quickly fast bowling may develop in India if, say, a similar approach were to be employed, and the pace bowling talent sought out and harnessed to the fullest.

 

thanks for coming to my TED talk.

I first read about Salgaonkar in a cricket magzine somewere in 1997-1998....he was a menacing fast bowler during 1971-76 and he also broke Gavaskar's finger while bowling a fast short pitch delivery.
That article was about dismissing the myth that India don't have fast bowlers...author mentioned his name along with some other fast bowlers like Kailash Gattani, Obaid Kamaal, Rajesh Yadav (brother of Shivlal Yadav etc) who were quicker than Kapil Dev, Manoj Prabhakar, Venkatesh Prasad but never got chances due to the ignorance of our selectors. Dennis Lillee was involved in MRF at that time and he was surprised to see the potential that Indian quicks had. 

Unfortunately, we could never harness that potential on a regular basis. our bowling attack at times show brilliance only to fade away under pressure. 2003 WC our trio was amongst wickets only to choke away in the finals. Same story repeated in 2015 WC as well.
We got our best bowling period when the trio of Bumrah, Shami, Ishant/Umesh were in full form during 2016-2020...but sadly with current setup it seems we're going back to the era of trundlers. 

[tapandrun]

Both Mavi and Nagarkoti were way down the ladder to be picked for Ind team, injuries to most of other bowlers who were ahead of them led to Mavi's inclusion.

 

But looks like this set-up sees something in 130ish bowler that other can't see/understand, else its v.hard to explain inclusion of Unadkat, Mukesh and Mavi all at the same time from no where of reckoning.

 Mavi was not even in top 15 wkt takers in SMAT 2022, so can not say he was awarded for Domestic showings 

 

Mavi and Mukesh in T20 looks like pace holder for Bhuvi till the dust settles and ppl forgets his Asia cup and WC semi finals and how toothless and thoughtless he was during those series

Edited January 5, 2023 by tapandrun

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Both Mavi and Nagarkoti were way down the ladder to be picked for Ind team, injuries to most of other bowlers who were ahead of them led to Mavi's inclusion.

 

But looks like this set-up sees something in 130ish bowler that other can't see/understand, else its v.hard to explain inclusion of Unadkat, Mukesh and Mavi all at the same time from no where of reckoning.

 Mavi was not even in top 15 wkt takers in SMAT 2022, so can not say he was awarded for Domestic showings 

 

Mavi and Mukesh in T20 looks like pace holder for Bhuvi till the dust settles and ppl forgets his Asia cup and WC semi finals and how toothless and thoughtless he was during those series

Mavi is not known as 130ish bowler. he is known as a genuine quick. you cant blame selectors for his low pace. responsibility lies on him. guy emerged as someone bowling 145K in u19 wc. Nagarkoti still  hits 145 but see,s like he has decided to bowl below his ability.

Edited January 5, 2023 by rkt.india

[Lone Wolf]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

Mavi is not known as 130ish bowler. he is known as a genuine quick. you cant blame selectors for his low pace. responsibility lies on him.

That 4fer will mean he will religiously adopt Boobie philosophy & will continue to float the ball & stop hitting the pitch hard

[singhvivek141]

11 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Mavi is not known as 130ish bowler. he is known as a genuine quick. you cant blame selectors for his low pace. responsibility lies on him. guy emerged as someone bowling 145K in u19 wc. Nagarkoti still  hits 145 but see,s like he has decided to bowl below his ability.

He is quickly joining the school of Munaf Patel....who was a 140's bowler when started but after injuries started to trundle at 125kph.
I have a feeling that Mavi has succumb to the injuries and has decided to protect his body by bowling in late 120's to mid 130's. As he is relatively injury free from last 1 year or more, so it seems to be working for him.

I am worried that if he gets some success then this infectious trend will spread to other quicks as well.

[Pollack]

45 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Mavi is not known as 130ish bowler. he is known as a genuine quick. you cant blame selectors for his low pace. responsibility lies on him. guy emerged as someone bowling 145K in u19 wc. Nagarkoti still  hits 145 but see,s like he has decided to bowl below his ability.

He used to touch 145 but mostly around 140 and used to drop speed at times if I remember.  Nagarkoti was the more consistent one in speeds. 

[Lone Wolf]

Must read article for fast bowling fans...  This is why Dale Steyn was such a blessing for Umran @Mosher @express bowling @Suhaan @Vijy

 

[Mesky99]

Don't know why fans are surprised seeing mavi bowl these speeds, bowling quick requires solid fitness and strength, to carry on bowling quick in all formats requires a certain physique which obviously mavi lacks, many Indian bowlers for a short period bowled briskly, rp Singh, sreesanth, munaf, nehra etc none of them ever got stronger and nor did they grow the right muscles, bowling quick would have meant injuries due to lack of strength hence all adapted medium pace, it's the same with mavi, he is a medium pacer who gets it to shape a bit, lacks height, bit of a floater, not sure how he has jumped the line ahead of other bowlers, let's say he puts on another 10kph in his bowling even at best his ceiling is quite low, unless he starts generating pace of the pitch and becomes a bit of a specialist with the old ball he can do decently at home in test matches.