Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Hell Raiser]

Pakistani batsmen are also very fast and quick. Look how quickly they go back to pavillion.

 

Bowlers bhi fast aur batsmen bhi. 

[express bowling]

Allowing a weak team like Zimbabwe to score 130 on this fast and bouncy pitch, is a bowling failure on the part of Pakistan. 

 

If not for allrounder Wasim, they would have been handed a bigger defeat. 

 

Frankly speaking, Pakistan is becoming a bad advertisement for 140 k+ bowling in T20s. 

 

 

[rkt.india]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Allowing a weak team like Zimbabwe to score 130 on this fast and bouncy pitch, is a bowling failure on the part of Pakistan. 

 

If not for allrounder Wasim, they would have been handed a bigger defeat. 

 

Frankly speaking, Pakistan is becoming a bad advertisement for 140 k+ bowling in T20s. 

 

 

130 was a good total and should have been chased. 

[express bowling]

15 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

I never said the objective is to produce a high percentage of 140 + deliveries .

 

Just stated that they do produce and no other nation can at present. 

 

They will even lose to Vatican City tmrw with that attack but they'll do it by bowling the maximum number of 140 + deliveries .

 

Other nations CAN produce but they often end up choosing variation bowlers in T20s after choosing 2 quicks.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

 

1 quality high pace bowler is all that you really need in this format. Anything more is a bonus. Variety and quality are more important imo.

 

 

 

Having 3 or 4  140 k+ pacers is good if they have requisite T20 skills and bounce. Supposedly good trundlers get hit in big matches too.

 

Bounce and seam movement, and the ability to take wickets with them, are very important for pacers.  Otherwise, pacers become innocuous when the ball stops swinging and the death overs have not arrived. 

 

Pakistan had quicker pacers last match but India bounced out atleast 3 Pakistanis and almost did so with another one. While Pak bounced out only SKY.  So, they are not able to utilize pace that well. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[express bowling]

5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

130 was a good total and should have been chased. 

 

 

Not against this Zim batting and on this pitch.

 

 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

It's not even just us.  Australia and South Africa back pace to the hilt and we know that. 

 

Yet, in the last couple of years , Pakistan have bowled more 140 + deliveries in this format than any other . And the gap is massive in 2022 alone.

 

That stat which showed that Pakistani bowlers bowled 43 % of deliveries above 140 kph and the next best is England at 18 % .

 

We can do better than we are doing now by giving quick bowlers the long rope but I don't there is any attack that we can pick and match that high percentage of 140 +. Neither can SA or Australia to be fair. 

 

 

 

 

 

In Australian Team, Only Starc is there who consistently bowls above 140+, rest all are in 135-143 kph range (welcome to be corrected).
Even in England, Only Wood is the one who consistenly is above 140k...Stokes and Jordan are sometimes in 140's, Archer hasn't played this year. In comparison, Willey, Topley, Curran brothers, Woakes etc are all medium pacers.
For SA also, Rabada's pace has gone down and he isn't the 145-147k pacer which he used to be earlier...amongst rest except Nortje all are below 140k.

In terms of sheer numbers, we can lineup and beat Pakistan in terms of pure pace considering the quantity and quality of resources we have. Umran bowled as fast as 157k in IPL outbowling Nortje, Ferguson who were around 153-154kph...Kartik and Mohsin clocked 151k...Kuldeep was consistently in 143-148 range while likes of Harshit Rana, Nagarkoti, Vaibhav Arora, Simarjeet Singh and Mukesh Choudhary were bowling 135-145kph ...and I am not even considering Umesh, Shami, Siraj, Bumrah who are 138-147kph in terms of pace.

Edited October 27, 2022 by singhvivek141

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 hours ago, express bowling said:

Allowing a weak team like Zimbabwe to score 130 on this fast and bouncy pitch, is a bowling failure on the part of Pakistan. 

 

If not for allrounder Wasim, they would have been handed a bigger defeat. 

 

Frankly speaking, Pakistan is becoming a bad advertisement for 140 k+ bowling in T20s. 

 

 

They bowled badly at start but pulled things back, one of their bowlers is clearly unfit 

In Warmup game against england they also bowled bad lengths ............so not surprised today as well. They get excited with extra bounce n bowl wrong lengths

 

Still 130 shud have been chasable , its a batting failure in the end 

[express bowling]

51 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

They bowled badly at start but pulled things back, one of their bowlers is clearly unfit 

In Warmup game against england they also bowled bad lengths ............so not surprised today as well. They get excited with extra bounce n bowl wrong lengths

 

Still 130 shud have been chasable , its a batting failure in the end 

 

 

Pakistani pacers depend a lot on swinging the ball to pick wickets, even the quicker ones. (  Shoaib and Imran were exceptions ).

 

One of the biggest reasons why they generally do poorly in Australia and SA and do well in England and NZ. In the 1992 WC, the ball swung quite a bit.

 

Rauf can pick wickets using bounce and he has looked good. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Pakistani pacers depend a lot on swinging the ball to pick wickets, even the quicker ones. (  Shoaib and Imran were exceptions ).

 

One of the biggest reasons why they generally do poorly in Australia and SA and do well in England and NZ. In the 1992 WC, the ball swung quite a bit.

 

Rauf can pick wickets using bounce and he has looked good. 

 

Major reason for them struggling in these countries have been actually batting

 

i was listening to cricvizpodcast they did mention two things

 

• pak have found less swing in both games 
• balls above 140k have swung less then the ones below 140k 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[vishalvirsingh]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

Allowing a weak team like Zimbabwe to score 130 on this fast and bouncy pitch, is a bowling failure on the part of Pakistan. 

 

If not for allrounder Wasim, they would have been handed a bigger defeat. 

 

Frankly speaking, Pakistan is becoming a bad advertisement for 140 k+ bowling in T20s. 

 

 

still brother , it was Pak batting that flopped miserably.

 

Pak bowlers did a fair JOB in keeping them at 130.  it was helpful to bowlers for first 8 overs only...i saw highlights. 

it clearly showed that if rizwan and babar are out, Pak batting finds it difficult to chase even small scores.

i would say pak batting choked......

against india they could manage 158 was a surprise.

[Vilander]

5 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Not just about backing. They have more 140 + bowlers ready for T20 international cricket than any other country. 

 

Even Australia and South Africa dobt have that many options 

ready is a subjective term, for India one is never ready unless they are a finished product in the eyes of the trundles selectors anyway. But that’s my point Pak is adventurous with their selections more risk taking 

[vishalvirsingh]

All our bowlers bowled well today...sardar , bhuvi and shammi...even both spinners were good. hardik bowled one over ..he looked nippy too.

[express bowling]

56 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

Man looking at Zim bowling,we didn't bowl well against this Pak batting.Should have kept them under 150 .Hope we pull up our socks.

 

 

This is what I was saying after our win against Pak.  Our bowling is below par, especially at the death.  And we are depending too much on Arshdeep to pick wicket upfront in bigger matches. 

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Major reason for them struggling in these countries have been actually batting

 

i was listening to cricvizpodcast they did mention two things

 

• pak have found less swing in both games 
• balls above 140k have swung less then the ones below 140k 

 

 

 

140+ swinging less isn't a secret. 80-84 mph is the best pace to get swing. The quicker you bowl, less it swings. You need to release the ball to swing. The reason Steyn was so good. He would bowl 130-135 while trying to swing the ball with new ball and 145 when it's not swinging.

Edited October 27, 2022 by rkt.india

[Mariyam]

29 minutes ago, vishalvirsingh said:

All our bowlers bowled well today...sardar , bhuvi and shammi...even both spinners were good. hardik bowled one over ..he looked nippy too.

Arshdeep looked off colour to me. He was sharp in the Pak game.

 

An issue that's generally overlooked: wicket keeping.

Both Shami and Arshdeep would have a wicket more to their name. But DK has been very poor.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Mariyam

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, vishalvirsingh said:

against india they could manage 158 was a surprise.

 It was an average fielding effort from us that night

Boobie and Arshdeep did give some loose balls later apart from Axar's bonus over

[Suhaan]

11 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

But DK has been very poor.

DK hasn't improved his keeping one bit from 2005,he is the same Dinesh Karthik whom people used to call "man with Iron gloves"

[Vk1]

13 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Arshdeep looked off colour to me. He was sharp in the Pak game.

 

An issue that's generally overlooked: wicket keeping.

Both Shami and Arshdeep would have a wicket more to their name. But DK has been very poor.

 

 

hopefully DK won't cost us big in knockouts with his keeping

[Suhaan]

28 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

This is what I was saying after our win against Pak.  Our bowling is below par, especially at the death.  And we are depending too much on Arshdeep to pick wicket upfront in bigger matches. 

If only Boobie consistently picked wickets upfront

[Vilander]

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

This is what I was saying after our win against Pak.  Our bowling is below par, especially at the death.  And we are depending too much on Arshdeep to pick wicket upfront in bigger matches. 

I saw slow pace deliveries at death that were despatched to six by tail enders ( saheen afrid with a lot of ease. If you had a bumrah or a improved tyagi sen or any of the new opl 145k finds bowling there instead of a trundler they would have been clean bowled.