Dhoni's struggle as Twenty20 batsman

[adi B]

Deleted

Edited January 9, 2016 by adi B

[MCcricket]

The writing is on the wall n has been for 3 years Dhoni is done washed out, do the selector have guts , no!he bats like a galli cricketer now, 

[Bigg Brother]

WA has most of players around 19 of age...So he cant bat against U-19 state team of Australia...

Please captain cool,stop torturing us...

[Vilander]

 

YV,Gayle and KP are ridiculous, Baz too.

[Trichromatic]

Nothing like defending mate..

I still don't think he is trash 

and there is nnothingto support that.

[philcric]

33.61 average  is still good 

Is 116 strike rate good ?

Unlike Tests and to a fair extent ODIs, average is much less important than strike rate in T20s.

Of course the higher the average the better, but not at the cost of SR.

What MSD has generally done in T20Is is struggle to score fast at the same time not getting out. That's why he has 21 Not Outs in 47 innings, thus inflating his average. Remaining not out is a good thing but it isn't particularly useful to the team in a T20 if you can't score fast.

 

[maniac]

Let me state the obvious -The problem is T20 game started to become popular after 2007 WT20 by that time Dhoni the batsman had totally become a number games player......The problem started around the WI series in 2006-2007 where he was warned for playing an irresponsible shot in one of the tests....And this was during the time when we were playing both Dhoni and DK in the X1.....I am not a conspiracy theorist nor a psychologist but its clear that since then you would see Dhoni's average getting bloated and he clearly would look for the notouts to bloat his average.

I am not saying that Dhoni would put India's winning chances in jeopardy by doing so,Not at all...... but let me put it this way-he wouldn't waste his wicket when there was an easy win at sight batting 2nd or would try to somehow remain unbeaten....not entirely wrong infact smart.

I remember this exhibition T20 game that happened in India between India A and B squads which had Sehwag and Dhoni playing against each other....this was before the IPL,Before the T20 WC...Hell even before DHoni became a bonafide superstar....this was some time between the Pak series where he made an Impact at home and the Pak away series where he became a superstar.......Sehwag went the usual rate at knots before getting out for a quick fire 50 and the team put on a decent total...but Dhoni was brutal n the game chasing the target.....The hitting was surreal.....He was the Man of the match and he even said that he was a big fan of Sehwag but doesn't want to compete against him or something of that nature  in the presentation.....That was probably the 2nd impact innings I had seen of his after the 100 against Pak in Vizag....this was before the knock against Srilanka etc.

Dhoni did have the ability but then he became so focused on building his innings and playing for average in ODI's that it impacted his T20 game and he eventually just lost that devil may care carefree attitude that is needed in T20 at times.

Dhoni never cared for captaincy in the beginning nor was he captain material but the role and the fame and money associated with him impacted his style of play which was that of a care-free entertainer in the beginning of his career and by that I don't mean a knucklehead like Afridi but he did become over selective and cautious....On a positive note it did make him a MVP in the ODI format and for his own sake prolonged his career.

I think Dhoni is only 2nd to Kapil Dev in becoming one of Indian cricket's biggest MVP's and allrounders overall but he changed his gaming style which has made him into a piss poor T20 player despite having the carried over reputation from his earlier days.

 

 

 

 

[maniac]

His last 5 innings in T20I has been Good.. Since the only thing you talk about is strike rate strike rate here 

Yeah like the one against England or the T20 WC final or like the game against Nzl.....so thats 3 T20I games which Dhoni contributed majorly to the loss

[Mosher]

His big hitting has gone down considerably. If you are denying it then I don't know what to say. Look at his 100 vs SL. The power behind the shots is just unreal. Never seen any Indian batsman hitting the ball with such power (except maybe Kapil). One more thing missing from his shots now is the sixes he used to hit over extra cover. Nowadays bowlers just feed him balls wide of offstump which he misses most of the times. 

 

[philcric]

His last 5 innings in T20I has been Good.. Since the only thing you talk about is strike rate strike rate here 

You mean to say he's been a good T20 player in the last 5 matches, and a poor one prior to that? Fair enough. 

[Lannister]

At least he could stepdown from the captaincy? Very selfish egoistic individual. 

[Trichromatic]

Since this thread is all about RUN RATE RUN RATE and ignoring everything like average + batting #

 

So called the BEST strike rate T20 specialist SAMMY couldn't get the job done today.. According to your guys logic he is useless

"Yeah like the one against England" 

http://www.cricbuzz.com/live-cricket-scores/15122/hbh-vs-prs-25th-match-big-bash-league-201516

 

Team with better run rate in 20 overs usually wins the game.

[G_B_]

He needs time to start his engine.

Which is why he promoted himself to 3 in think in one of the WC's. But the problem was that he wasted too many balls when the fields were inside the circle. Probably the best place for MSD is number 4. He needs about 9-10 balls to get going in T20. At number 4 if he can manage maybe a run a ball in the first 10 he can get in top gear.

He needs time to start his engine.

Which is why he promoted himself to 3 in think in one of the WC's. But the problem was that he wasted too many balls when the fields were inside the circle. Probably the best place for MSD is number 5. He needs about 9-10 balls to get going in T20. At number 4 if he can manage maybe a run a ball in the first 10 he can get in top gear.

[Ankit_sharma03]

The whole T20 Batting line up needs a change 

Ill Srsly make Virat n Rohit open. 

Rahane n dhawan doesnt give me that confidence n Tht will also make virat, dhoni raina all bat low 

UR best batsman needs to play more balls

dhoni has to bat at 3 or 4. Ny more below this wud only make our team suffer.

People Like yuvraj raina doesnt take to much time to get offf

 

The whole batting order needs to b changed this time n we shud stop going convential way

All this yrs i have never seen any diff in our odi or t20 batting lineup

Virat has always been some who can bat throughout so keep him at open

 

My suggested batting order

Virat n rohit open

Dhoni/ raina/ iyer 3-4 

If yuvraj is in form get him at 5. Dnt trust him to much these so dnt wanna give him to many balls

6-7- Mann, pandya, Sky , hooda n jadeja wud pretty much play in the team 

Bowling wnt b our strenth but lets make batting our strength

 

Ms batting low makes this batting week . Get him up. He needs time to get in. After that he is gud enough to play pacer n spinner also if needed can bat through. For that 3-4 is ideal for him nt below than that

 

Also Y has ashish nehra only played 2 Mushtaq ali matches. He doesnt play ranji n or many domestic odi. 

N we r relying on him

[philcric]

Team with better run rate in 20 overs usually wins the game.

That's just simple fundamental logic man.

You must be a HATER.

[philcric]

Let me state the obvious -The problem is T20 game started to become popular after 2007 WT20 by that time Dhoni the batsman had totally become a number games player......The problem started around the WI series in 2006-2007 where he was warned for playing an irresponsible shot in one of the tests....And this was during the time when we were playing both Dhoni and DK in the X1.....I am not a conspiracy theorist nor a psychologist but its clear that since then you would see Dhoni's average getting bloated and he clearly would look for the notouts to bloat his average.

I am not saying that Dhoni would put India's winning chances in jeopardy by doing so,Not at all...... but let me put it this way-he wouldn't waste his wicket when there was an easy win at sight batting 2nd or would try to somehow remain unbeaten....not entirely wrong infact smart.

I remember this exhibition T20 game that happened in India between India A and B squads which had Sehwag and Dhoni playing against each other....this was before the IPL,Before the T20 WC...Hell even before DHoni became a bonafide superstar....this was some time between the Pak series where he made an Impact at home and the Pak away series where he became a superstar.......Sehwag went the usual rate at knots before getting out for a quick fire 50 and the team put on a decent total...but Dhoni was brutal n the game chasing the target.....The hitting was surreal.....He was the Man of the match and he even said that he was a big fan of Sehwag but doesn't want to compete against him or something of that nature  in the presentation.....That was probably the 2nd impact innings I had seen of his after the 100 against Pak in Vizag....this was before the knock against Srilanka etc.

Dhoni did have the ability but then he became so focused on building his innings and playing for average in ODI's that it impacted his T20 game and he eventually just lost that devil may care carefree attitude that is needed in T20 at times.

Dhoni never cared for captaincy in the beginning nor was he captain material but the role and the fame and money associated with him impacted his style of play which was that of a care-free entertainer in the beginning of his career and by that I don't mean a knucklehead like Afridi but he did become over selective and cautious....On a positive note it did make him a MVP in the ODI format and for his own sake prolonged his career.

I think Dhoni is only 2nd to Kapil Dev in becoming one of Indian cricket's biggest MVP's and allrounders overall but he changed his gaming style which has made him into a piss poor T20 player despite having the carried over reputation from his earlier days.

 

Agree with some points and disagree with some.

I like to give benefit of doubt to the players (their intentions), unless there's irrefutable evidence against them. I don't believe Dhoni plays in a certain way to protect/inflate his average. His ODI role evolved from being swashbuckling to playing a very percentage game and being there till the end. And he got very good at it and worked wonderfully well for India over the years.

He probably tries to play T20 like an ODI. And it hasn't worked at internationals. The problem could be the plan or execution or both.

 

[express bowling]

The main issue is ....whether MSD,  or for that matter any other chosen player,   is being effective in a format. ( Unless we are discussing a young player with potential for the future )

Dhoni was a super ODI batsman.

BUT

He is below par as a T20 International batsman and has not been that effective most of the times after 52 matches.

[philcric]

Since this thread is all about RUN RATE RUN RATE and ignoring everything like average + batting #

 

No, this thread is about Dhoni struggling in T20 Internationals.

Nobody is ignoring average. Dhoni's average is good and SR is poor. 

Don't know what you are on about batting#? First you claimed Dhoni has slow SR because of batting position. Stats clearly showed there are plenty of middle/lower order batsmen with very good SRs.

 

 

[philcric]

why ignore the 2nd part of the post ??

I bought that part up for  a reason

i don't know man.

You showed this scorecard .. http://www.cricbuzz.com/live-cricket-scores/15122/hbh-vs-prs-25th-match-big-bash-league-201516 .. Sammy's 12 ball 28 didn't win the game for his team ... and you said "according to your guys logic he is useless".

It's difficult to comprehend your logic and line of thinking, but i guess you were saying the above because someone else said Dhoni's innings of 18 ball 27  wasn't a particularly good one in this match .. http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/engine/current/match/667731.html

 

 

[HippoSucks]

T20 batsman batting at #6 (minimum 5 matches):

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax1=6;batting_positionmin1=6;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=3;filter=advanced;orderby=batting_strike_rate;qualmin1=5;qualval1=matches;template=results;type=batting

Dhoni is right near the bottom. Batting at #6 is a valid reason for not having any 50+ scores (even Afridi only has one 50 batting at #6). But at that position you are also expected to have a higher strike rate, which Dhoni doesn't have.