Indian test cricket from depths of despair to Bright sunshine from Dhoni to Virat the journey , compare

[Texan]

By the way, I am not saying that we must play 5 bowlers every time we play, but every Test match situation should be evaluated on merit to determine if we play 4 or 5 bowlers. Say on a seaming and swinging wicket in Eng/NZ under overcast conditions, 4 bowlers might suffice as you don't expect the Test to last long and you may need some additional cushion in your batting.

 

So, what I am calling for is really some flexibility in approach and not making blanket assumptions that whether you play 4 or 5 bowlers, it does not matter much.

 

It does.

 

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

you wont have same situation in every test. It can work against a weak WI side.

Which is why it is important for our team management  to choose our team composition based on the oppositions and the playing conditions.

 

We have only a handful of players who can do well  outside Asia....and we need to be flexible because of this limitation.

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, Texan said:

By the way, I am not saying that we must play 5 bowlers every time we play, but every Test match situation should be evaluated on merit to determine if we play 4 or 5 bowlers. Say on a seaming and swinging wicket in Eng/NZ under overcast conditions, 4 bowlers might suffice as you don't expect the Test to last long and you may need some additional cushion in your batting.

 

So, what I am calling for is really some flexibility in approach and not making blanket assumptions that whether you play 4 or 5 bowlers, it does not matter much.

 

It does.

 

This is what  I  have been saying too.   We have to be flexible because we do not have either a  batting all-rounder or a wicket-keeper batsman.

 

A proper batsman, who is a good spinner too, would have resolved this debate to a large extent.  

 

Do we have any such player ?

[mishra]

^ Jadeja

[velu]

44 minutes ago, mishra said:

^ Jadeja

 

On 7/28/2016 at 6:36 PM, velu said:

Jadeja - India 

 

 

[Stuge]

To early to say imo

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[MCcricket]

Here again under Virat when he was handed the test captaincy with team in disarray n loosing and new guys he makes them into champions, what a slap on the face of Mr PROCESS and no results

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, MCcricket said:

Here again under Virat when he was handed the test captaincy with team in disarray n loosing and new guys he makes them into champions, what a slap on the face of Mr PROCESS and no results

But, as you said, MSD cared more about the process, not the results. Hence, not much point in asking him for the latter since he rated former more.

[Laaloo]

 

 

Edited December 12, 2016 by laaloo

[MCcricket]

4 minutes ago, Vijy said:

But, as you said, MSD cared more about the process, not the results. Hence, not much point in asking him for the latter since he rated former more.

Any sport especially a professional one is played to win, would u be hired by a multi national if you believe we will just learn but not sure we will grow our market share or be number one.

Yes goals should be realistic, we don't expect a minnow to be a world number 1 or go to Aus n white wash them, but a captain has to be a winner n have pride in his n teams performance n Dhoni doesn't care n that's a shame.

[sscomp32]

 

 

No fun replying to blind people. You, mtc and some others are good and are not blinded by hate. Can't say the same about the rest.

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[MCcricket]

We R being pragmatic n not blind worshippers, Dhonis batting and performance has been on wane for 4 years now in ODI n test he was never good , and a horrible test capt, you would expect performance n accountability from a professional n sports body, Dhoni has been loosing for last 2 years Al let everything n Virat winning everything ,so why stick with a Mr process looser.

[velu]

5 hours ago, MCcricket said:

Any sport especially a professional one is played to win, would u be hired by a multi national if you believe we will just learn but not sure we will grow our market share or be number one.

Yes goals should be realistic, we don't expect a minnow to be a world number 1 or go to Aus n white wash them, but a captain has to be a winner n have pride in his n teams performance n Dhoni doesn't care n that's a shame.

if all the games are played to win , then why test cricket still have a draw ?

we could have have a result based on some parameters 

 

 

[putrevus]

Thank heavens we have Kohli as captain, Dhoni would have never let Ashwin blossom,.Kohli has no pretensions ,he knows Ashwin is the reason why his team is so good. This statement says it all about Kohli as a captain.Any player will run thru wall for this kind of captain.

 

"Ashwin obviously a champion bowler, we are running out of words to describe him. He's always right up there to win the Man of the Match every Test we play and he's won so many Man of the Series awards as well. So you can understand the impact that he's had on this team going to No. 1 and to see where we stand today, I think 50-60 percent of that has been Ashwin's effort to be honest. The batsmen have only played second fiddle to his performances, he's contributed with the bat as well. I am just delighted to have a guy like him in the team"

 

One more thing which is the most pleasing aspect of his captaincy is him stating the team wants to move away from individual stats and achievements W is the only stat which matters.

[SUMO]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Thank heavens we have Kohli as captain, Dhoni would have never let Ashwin blossom,.Kohli has no pretensions ,he knows Ashwin is the reason why his team is so good. This statement says it all about Kohli as a captain.Any player will run thru wall for this kind of captain.

 

"Ashwin obviously a champion bowler, we are running out of words to describe him. He's always right up there to win the Man of the Match every Test we play and he's won so many Man of the Series awards as well. So you can understand the impact that he's had on this team going to No. 1 and to see where we stand today, I think 50-60 percent of that has been Ashwin's effort to be honest. The batsmen have only played second fiddle to his performances, he's contributed with the bat as well. I am just delighted to have a guy like him in the team"

 

One more thing which is the most pleasing aspect of his captaincy is him stating the team wants to move away from individual stats and achievements W is the only stat which matters.

dhoni was the one under whom ashwin blossomed...before that he wasn't even under anyone's radar
dhoni has also praised kohli like this in the past - stands on his name in aussie stadiums. etc
 he once said in post match presentation about viru-gauti (in 2008) they are so consistent to give firing starts that they take all the pressure away from rest of the batters and we thrive on that...AFAIR
IMO...its easy to enjoy and celebrate other's success when you are at the top of your game

recall that time in 2011 we were worldcup champions and no.1 & drawn test series in SA, dhoni was icc odi player of the year 2 times in a row
times change man...they are our legends we must be proud of both of them...today is kohli's era

[putrevus]

12 minutes ago, SUMO said:

dhoni was the one under whom ashwin blossomed...before that he wasn't even under anyone's radar
dhoni has also praised kohli like this in the past - stands on his name in aussie stadiums. etc
 he once said in post match presentation about viru-gauti (in 2008) they are so consistent to give firing starts that they take all the pressure away from rest of the batters and we thrive on that...AFAIR
IMO...its easy to enjoy and celebrate other's success when you are at the top of your game

recall that time in 2011 we were worldcup champions and no.1 & drawn test series in SA, dhoni was icc odi player of the year 2 times in a row
times change man...they are our legends we must be proud of both of them...today is kohli's era

I do not think Ashwin blossomed under Dhoni, he was an IPL starter under Dhoni, Dhoni never gave Ashwin the free reign which he got under Kohli.

 

Your views may differ from mine that is alright but to me Dhoni never groomed a side, he was a very reluctant to change which shows how few changes he made  even when his team was losing, Kohli has guts to drop a guy who has done well , if he thinks other person in the team  is better suited for the job.The way he has given his fast bowlers new life is refreshing, he is the only Indian captain to have won multiple tests away from home that says all about Kohli the captain.

Edited December 12, 2016 by putrevus

[zep1706]

In my opinion (and I have said this at least 10 times here) the thing that separates Kohli, the test captain from Dhoni is his passion for the format. Dhoni never really cared about test cricket and it was evident from his approach. He often treated test cricket as 5 days of one day cricket with his "funky" captaincy. He regularly sat back, let the game drift and he was very reluctant to make changes. I know this might sound harsh but Dhoni is easily one of the worst test captains I have seen. Kohli on the other hand tries to do the basics right and he is very proactive. His real test would be when he captains in England/SA/Aus but I don't see him doing worse than Dhoni. In fact from what I have seen so far I am quite optimistic about his captaincy and our chances. 

Edited December 12, 2016 by zep1706

[SUMO]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I do not think Ashwin blossomed under Dhoni, he was an IPL starter under Dhoni, Dhoni never gave Ashwin the free reign which he got under Kohli.

 

Your views may differ from mine that is alright but to me Dhoni never groomed a side, he was a very reluctant to change which shows how few changes he made he even when his team was losing, Kohli has guts to drop a guy who has done well , if he thinks other person in the team  is better suited for the job.The way he has given his fast bowlers new life is refreshing, he is the only Indian captain to have won multiple tests away from home that says all about Kohli the captain.

it was under him that ash become our premier spinner in test and odi since 2012 when bhajji was dropped
dhoni has backed ash and jaddu very hard he actually relied on them after zaheer
but ash didn't won him in SA last day pitch and jaddu took 6 fer in the next thats why he was dropped for a while overseas

regarding fast bowlers I agree no seamer blossomed under him, his style was different he believed in minimising the risk
so he didn't backed aaron umesh etc much but still got best out of mediocres like munaf, mohit in last 2 WCs

[putrevus]

10 minutes ago, SUMO said:

it was under him that ash become our premier spinner in test and odi since 2012 when bhajji was dropped
dhoni has backed ash and jaddu very hard he actually relied on them after zaheer
but ash didn't won him in SA last day pitch and jaddu took 6 fer in the next thats why he was dropped for a while overseas

regarding fast bowlers I agree no seamer blossomed under him, his style was different he believed in minimising the risk
so he didn't backed aaron umesh etc much but still got best out of mediocres like munaf, mohit in last 2 WCs

That was my point, Ashwin blossomed under Kohli , that being said when Ash was getting low scores in Srilanka Kohli demoted him no9 or no 10 and let Mishra bat ahead of him.Ashwin promptly score 50 plus in that inning and has not looked back since.

 

I am not in dressing room but Kohli has put out notice to every one no one is irreplaceable and it is team which matters the most and that is the most pleasing aspect of Kohli.

[SUMO]

10 minutes ago, putrevus said:

That was my point, Ashwin blossomed under Kohli , that being said when Ash was getting low scores in Srilanka Kohli demoted him no9 or no 10 and let Mishra bat ahead of him.Ashwin promptly score 50 plus in that inning and has not looked back since.

 

I am not in dressing room but Kohli has put out notice to every one no one is irreplaceable and it is team which matters the most and that is the most pleasing aspect of Kohli.

yes there should be mix of backing and alerting