Jerusalem is Israel's capital, says Donald Trump !!!

[velu]

 

Quote

“Today we finally acknowledge the obvious: that Jerusalem is Israel’s capital.”

 

 

President Trump just officially declared Jerusalem to be the capital of Israel, upending decades of US diplomacy and threatening to spark massive unrest across the Muslim world.

Speaking in the White House’s Diplomatic Reception Room, Trump also announced his plan to eventually relocate the US Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem and begin the difficult logistical work of building a new diplomatic facility in the disputed city.

 

“Israel is a sovereign nation with the right like any other sovereign nation to determine its own capital,” Trump said. “Acknowledging this is a fact is a necessary condition for achieving peace.”

Trump described Jerusalem as the capital that “the Jewish people established in ancient times,” a line that may anger those in the Arab world who minimize, or deny, that Jews have had a historic connection to the city for millennia.

 

 

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42259443

 

 

[chewy]

hopefully other countries follow and move their embassies to Jerusalem

Arabs pants on fire situation, should make for good popcorn moment tv debates  

[veer]

It is funny how things have came to this point from ancient time:

 

Jerusalem and Ayodhya.. lots of similarities..

 

 

[zen]

Ind needs a new capital

 

Only positive about Delhi as capital is that corrupt politicians and bureaucrats get to breathe pollution 

[Gollum]

With the discovery of shale gas, US' dependency on M.E will lessen and they can afford to do these things. The day oil runs dry in M.E (max 50-60 years) Arab states will get what they have always deserved from the rest of the world. 

[Alam_dar]

We are living in a modern civilized world, where International rules are based upon UN Charter. 

 

UN Charter does not agree with the Israeli Argument that since their ancestors lived in Palestine 3000 years ago, therefore their unseen god has given the Birth right to them to take this land and kick out millions of native people out of their homes and don't allow them to come back. 

 

If we have to accept this logic, then the Red Indians should kick out all the White and Black Americans out of America. 

 

Not a single country accepted the illegal settlements of Israel, neither this argument of Israel that their god promised them this land. 

 

Although Trump has accepted it, but for sure there is a lot of opposition to it in American people itself. 

 

We want peace in the region, but the god of Zionists promised them not the Israel with present borders, but their god promised them the "Greater Israel", which means no peace in the region till Israel captures whole Syria, and parts of Egypt, jordan and Iraq. 

 

[zen]

5 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

We want peace in the region, but the god of Zionists promised them not the Israel with present borders, but their god promised them the "Greater Israel", which means no peace in the region till Israel captures whole Syria, and parts of Egypt, jordan and Iraq. 

 

Let’s not forget how Islam was spread 

[Alam_dar]

5 hours ago, zen said:

Let’s not forget how Islam was spread 

I hope people already know here how Islam orders to kill the enemy men and enslave the women and children and take whole city as spoil of war (just Like Muhammad did in Qurayzah with the Jews and with all the Kafir tribes in Arab)

 

Unfortunately, the problem does not begin from here (i.e. from Muslims).

 

Let us see what the God of Jews telling them to do (which is exactly that what Muhammad was doing later):

 

https://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/20.html

 

(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 

11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 

12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 

13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 

14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. 

 

 

This is the way how State of Israel was created in the Past. 

 

Zionists use this excuse of having connection to this land and thus giving them this right to kick out the native population of Palestine out of their homes and then not allowing to return back, but to stay as displaced people in the camps in nearby countries. 

 

But UN Charter does not recognise this claim of Jews of having birth right to this land. 

 

Jews were only given this land by the modern civilized world (UN), so that their life could be saved and protected. 

 

UN fully recognize the right of the native population which was living there for over thousands of years. 

 

Yes Islam is evil too, but the present generation of Palestinians could do nothing about the sins and killings of their ancestors thousand years ago. 

[velu]

4 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

I hope people already know here how Islam orders to kill the enemy men and enslave the women and children and take whole city as spoil of war (just Like Muhammad did in Qurayzah with the Jews and with all the Kafir tribes in Arab)

 

Unfortunately, the problem does not begin from here (i.e. from Muslims).

 

Let us see what the God of Jews telling them to do (which is exactly that what Muhammad was doing later):

 

https://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/20.html

 

(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 

11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 

12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 

13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 

14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. 

 

 

This is the way how State of Israel was created in the Past. 

 

Zionists use this excuse of having connection to this land and thus giving them this right to kick out the native population of Palestine out of their homes and then not allowing to return back, but to stay as displaced people in the camps in nearby countries. 

 

But UN Charter does not recognise this claim of Jews of having birth right to this land. 

 

Jews were only given this land by the modern civilized world (UN), so that their life could be saved and protected. 

 

UN fully recognize the right of the native population which was living there for over thousands of years. 

 

Yes Islam is evil too, but the present generation of Palestinians could do nothing about the sins and killings of their ancestors thousand years ago. 

 

points 10 to 14 has got no business in this 21st century..

if russians or americans follwed this there wont be any men left after they occupied afghanistan or iraq

[Alam_dar]

2 hours ago, velu said:

 

points 10 to 14 has got no business in this 21st century..

if russians or americans follwed this there wont be any men left after they occupied afghanistan or iraq

Have you understood my post correctly? 

I am little confused. 

 

Points 10 to 14 are not from Quran, but from the "Old Testament" (bible) of Jews. 

 

This is how the State of Israel was created thousands of years ago. 

 

In fact, old testament is more blood thirsty than Quran. Muhammad said to only enslave the women and children, while Old Testament prophets even killed the women and children too. 

 

 

https://www.biblestudytools.com/numbers/31.html

(Numbers 31)

7 They (army of Israelites) fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. 

8 ...

9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 

10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 

11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 

12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses ... 

13 ...

14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. 

15“Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 

16“They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the LORD in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the LORD’s people. 

17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 

18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. 

 

 

https://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/2.html

(Deuteronomy 2)

33 the LORD our God delivered him (Sihon king of Heshbon) over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army. 

34 At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed them—men, women and children. We left no survivors.

35 But the livestock and the plunder from the towns we had captured we carried off for ourselves.

 

Problem is this that Israel is using the Excuse of "Land of our Ancestors" in order to kick out all the native Palestinians against the UN Charter of the civilized world. 

 

We are concerned with the safety of Jewish life today, but we don't agree with Jews that their any unseen god gave them this land as Birth Right by killing or kicking out the native population of Palestine. 

 

Therefore, Israel right wing fanatics should not be allowed to destroy the UN charter of the civilized world, but they should be compelled to give up their religious madness and act upon the UN Charter. 

[Ranvir]

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

Have you understood my post correctly? 

I am little confused. 

 

Points 10 to 14 are not from Quran, but from the "Old Testament" (bible) of Jews. 

 

This is how the State of Israel was created thousands of years ago. 

 

In fact, old testament is more blood thirsty than Quran. Muhammad said to only enslave the women and children, while Old Testament prophets even killed the women and children too. 

 

 

https://www.biblestudytools.com/numbers/31.html

(Numbers 31)

7 They (army of Israelites) fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. 

8 ...

9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 

10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 

11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 

12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses ... 

13 ...

14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. 

15“Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 

16“They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the LORD in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the LORD’s people. 

17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 

18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. 

 

 

https://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/2.html

(Deuteronomy 2)

33 the LORD our God delivered him (Sihon king of Heshbon) over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army. 

34 At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed them—men, women and children. We left no survivors.

35 But the livestock and the plunder from the towns we had captured we carried off for ourselves.

 

Problem is this that Israel is using the Excuse of "Land of our Ancestors" in order to kick out all the native Palestinians against the UN Charter of the civilized world. 

 

We are concerned with the safety of Jewish life today, but we don't agree with Jews that their any unseen god gave them this land as Birth Right by killing or kicking out the native population of Palestine. 

 

Therefore, Israel right wing fanatics should not be allowed to destroy the UN charter of the civilized world, but they should be compelled to give up their religious madness and act upon the UN Charter. 

I recently watched a documentary about Jerusalem. Over the past 3000 years there have been so many different people living there and you can't say that the Palestinians are the natives. When the Romans destroyed Jerusalem most of the native Jews left, then eventually Muslims from Arabia took over, then Christian crusaders from Europe who killed and expelled the Arabs and Jews, then some 'arabs' from Syria held it, then Christians then Turks. Each time someone new invaded Jerusalem they usually expelled or slaughtered the people living there.

 

Why not give Istanbul to the Greeks? After all they are the 'natives'.

[Alam_dar]

8 minutes ago, Ranvir said:

I recently watched a documentary about Jerusalem. Over the past 3000 years there have been so many different people living there and you can't say that the Palestinians are the natives. When the Romans destroyed Jerusalem most of the native Jews left, then eventually Muslims from Arabia took over, then Christian crusaders from Europe who killed and expelled the Arabs and Jews, then some 'arabs' from Syria held it, then Christians then Turks. Each time someone new invaded Jerusalem they usually expelled or slaughtered the people living there.

Issue is our world could never be "Perfect". 

 

The history of modern civilized world starts with the creation of UN and accepting it's charter world wide. 

 

Through this charter, humankind succeeded in ending the Slavery world wide. None of the religions was able to end this curse despite their thousands of years of history. 

 

Practically it was impossible for UN to start stating the rights of people and lands in the PAST. Therefore, the history of Rights of Nations in our civilized world started with the birth of UN. Whatever happened before the birth of UN, we let it be there and do not deal with it. 

 

This civilized world under UN may not be 100% perfect, but just like slavery, the Jews for the first time got their state (remember they were weak at that time and being slaughtered, but only this modern civilized system helped them, otherwise there would have been no state of Israel to begin with). 

 

Now this same UN Charter of civilized world decided that the people who were living for hundreds of years in Palestine, they are the native people of that land. And Israel is not allowed to kill or to kick them out of their homes in name of any religious madness where their unseen god promised them this Land as their birth right even kicking the native people out of their homes. 

 

That is why not a single country (including India) ever accepted the Illegal Settlements of Israel.

 

We need not to destroy the UN charter and the system of the civilized world, but we have to ask Israel to follow the rules of the UN. 

 

Quote

Why not give Istanbul to the Greeks? After all they are the 'natives'.

Problem is same that it is impossible for modern civilized world to solve the issues who are several hundred years old. 

Please also note that earlier there was no land as "Israel". It was King (Prophet) David who gave birth to the state of Israel about 1000 years before Christ. 

But how?

That I explained above how prophets of Israelites killed the "native" people (including women and children) who were living in those areas of present day Israel, Palestine, Syria, Jordan, Mount Sinai (Egypt). 

Therefore, even the Israelis too are not the "natives" of this land, but they usurped this land from other native people through wars and through slaughtering and plundering them. 

 

Moreover, now let us look this issue from another angel. 

 

Question:

What then about the White and Black Americans of today? If we have to accept the Zionist logic, then the native Red Indians should kill and kick out all the White and Black Americans out of America. 

Is the world ready for it? 

If not, then why to show the double standards in case of Israel and give the right to them to kick out the 5 million native Palestinian people from their homes and not allowing them to come back? These 5 million native Palestinians are living in the camps in the nearby countries and they are in pretty bad situation. 

 

Similarly, should the Aborigines of Australis should kick out all the Australians out of Australis?

 

 

 

[velu]

@Alam_dar it sounded as aggressive as your holy book .. no offense 

[Alam_dar]

25 minutes ago, velu said:

@Alam_dar it sounded as aggressive as your holy book .. no offense 

There is some misunderstanding here. 

I am an Atheist from Pakistan. I have already abandoned the religions due to these obvious problems. 

I believe that modern Human has got enough Experience of thousands of years to make the best system for mankind. This system may not be 100% Perfect, but still the BEST as compared to any religious system. 

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by Alam_dar

[Ranvir]

45 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

Issue is our world could never be "Perfect". 

 

The history of modern civilized world starts with the creation of UN and accepting it's charter world wide. 

 

Through this charter, humankind succeeded in ending the Slavery world wide. None of the religions was able to end this curse despite their thousands of years of history. 

 

Practically it was impossible for UN to start stating the rights of people and lands in the PAST. Therefore, the history of Rights of Nations in our civilized world started with the birth of UN. Whatever happened before the birth of UN, we let it be there and do not deal with it. 

 

This civilized world under UN may not be 100% perfect, but just like slavery, the Jews for the first time got their state (remember they were weak at that time and being slaughtered, but only this modern civilized system helped them, otherwise there would have been no state of Israel to begin with). 

 

Now this same UN Charter of civilized world decided that the people who were living for hundreds of years in Palestine, they are the native people of that land. And Israel is not allowed to kill or to kick them out of their homes in name of any religious madness where their unseen god promised them this Land as their birth right even kicking the native people out of their homes. 

 

That is why not a single country (including India) ever accepted the Illegal Settlements of Israel.

 

We need not to destroy the UN charter and the system of the civilized world, but we have to ask Israel to follow the rules of the UN. 

 

Problem is same that it is impossible for modern civilized world to solve the issues who are several hundred years old. 

Please also note that earlier there was no land as "Israel". It was King (Prophet) David who gave birth to the state of Israel about 1000 years before Christ. 

But how?

That I explained above how prophets of Israelites killed the "native" people (including women and children) who were living in those areas of present day Israel, Palestine, Syria, Jordan, Mount Sinai (Egypt). 

Therefore, even the Israelis too are not the "natives" of this land, but they usurped this land from other native people through wars and through slaughtering and plundering them. 

 

Moreover, now let us look this issue from another angel. 

 

Question:

What then about the White and Black Americans of today? If we have to accept the Zionist logic, then the native Red Indians should kill and kick out all the White and Black Americans out of America. 

Is the world ready for it? 

If not, then why to show the double standards in case of Israel and give the right to them to kick out the 5 million native Palestinian people from their homes and not allowing them to come back? These 5 million native Palestinians are living in the camps in the nearby countries and they are in pretty bad situation. 

 

Similarly, should the Aborigines of Australis should kick out all the Australians out of Australis?

 

 

 

We might be led to be believe that this is a modern civilised society but even today military might rules the world just look at America invading countries with no justifiable reason, Russia taking Crimea. No one has the power to stop them.

 

The Arabs tried to destroy Israel in the 6 day war but they were incompetent and further worsened the lives of the Palestinians with their failure and now that Israel is best friends with America the Arabs have no chance unless they have some super army.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Ranvir

[velu]

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

There is some misunderstanding here. 

I am an Atheist from Pakistan. I have already abandoned the religions due to these obvious problems. 

I believe that modern Human has got enough Experience of thousands of years to make the best system for mankind. This system may not be 100% Perfect, but still the BEST as compared to any religious system. 

 

 

athesist in pakistan

you have to be super safe or you might lose your head 

[Alam_dar]

1 hour ago, velu said:

 

athesist in pakistan

you have to be super safe or you might lose your head 

You are super correct. 

I cannot talk about the dangers to life in the open, even here at this Indian forum. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by Alam_dar

[Muloghonto]

On 12/6/2017 at 7:41 PM, Gollum said:

With the discovery of shale gas, US' dependency on M.E will lessen and they can afford to do these things. The day oil runs dry in M.E (max 50-60 years) Arab states will get what they have always deserved from the rest of the world. 

Not so fast. The power of the arab world is not oil per se. Yes, this last century, oil has made the Arab world rich. But the relevance of the arab world will always be its geo-strategic importance : it is a giant piece of land that is extremely sparsely populated and connects, both by land and sea, the two most heavily populated portions of the planet : Europe and India/China. 

Even 500 years from now, we are still gonna need ships to sail the Suez or some sort of super-highway going through the ME to connect India-China-Europe. 

 

This fact and this alone, is why the west & USA is pro-Israel: Egypt already tried to nationalize the Suez Canal and the real long term importance of Israel, is that it is a free market democracy that acts as a 'power-check' for the Suez.

 

[Muloghonto]

22 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

We are living in a modern civilized world, where International rules are based upon UN Charter. 

 

UN Charter does not agree with the Israeli Argument that since their ancestors lived in Palestine 3000 years ago, therefore their unseen god has given the Birth right to them to take this land and kick out millions of native people out of their homes and don't allow them to come back. 

 

If we have to accept this logic, then the Red Indians should kick out all the White and Black Americans out of America. 

 

Not a single country accepted the illegal settlements of Israel, neither this argument of Israel that their god promised them this land. 

 

Although Trump has accepted it, but for sure there is a lot of opposition to it in American people itself. 

 

We want peace in the region, but the god of Zionists promised them not the Israel with present borders, but their god promised them the "Greater Israel", which means no peace in the region till Israel captures whole Syria, and parts of Egypt, jordan and Iraq. 

 

This argument is moot. Because the UN charter does recognize that those who are born to the land and are citizens, are natives of the land. The Naqba was a long time ago ( 70 years coming up) and all Israel has to do, to be considered legitimate, in everyone's eyes, is hold on for another 30-40 years. Once every single Palestinian who were kicked out is dead and every single Israeli who did the kicking out are dead, it will move into 'history', nothing more, with no living person having the unjust experience of being kicked out of their land and no Israeli holding the position of ' they came, they kicked out the Palestinians and took their lands'. 

 

By 2050, ethically, legally and logically, the Palestinian claim will be dead. That is the simple truth.

 

 

[MechEng]

For a minute I thought that Donald Trump had Alia Bhatt moment by saying the wrong city, but then Jerusalem is indeed the capital and Trump is actually sending a message.