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Gollum

Say sorry to Saha

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Saha was wonderful wk but his records overseas is abysmal he failed in Australia and in Cape Town don’t think he would have survived in England as a batsman.I know he did well in India and against Windies in Windies but he would have failed in England.

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Saha is being missed for his keeping. The top 5 have to get Ind to a respectable position .... Karthik is a superb LOI player esp down the order and utility keeper in that format too but in test cricket you need to keep better than what he has displayed .... Pant could have been tried out 

Edited by zen

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10 minutes ago, Gollum said:

He failed in Cape Town and all of ICF was up in arms against him as if he was a quota pick, forgetting that he caught 10 catches and all other Indian batsmen failed there. Now what?

 

It is a well known fact that Karthik and Pappu can't keep to save their lives but what have these 2 done to earn the hype as so called 'earth shattering batsman'...They average less than Saha, less 100s, less MOMs and haven't outdone him with the bat in difficult conditions either. But if you read ICF threads it seems like Saha is the worst number 11 in test history and these 2 are Gilchrist/Flower level batters. Time to admit that we are lucky to have Saha...he misses 4 chances in 17 completed tests and Pappu/DK can't go a day without dropping dollies. Saha doesn't jump like a monkey behind the stumps, doesn't spread noise pollution, is shy and maintains a low profile. But he has more balls than Pappu and even this waste of space Dinesh Karthik. In spite of limited talent he leaves everything out there on the 22 yards...it is an insult to call Karthik a better option than Saha.

  

Now Saha is injured and may never come back to test cricket but the way he has been treated by posters here is pathetic. India doesn't deserve to have him, it is a loss to cricket that Saha will retire having played so few tests. Healy played 120 tests, Boucher 150 and guess what both were inferior batsmen compared to our guy. In a fair world he would have played test cricket for 10 years and retired as a giant of the game...in India he won't even be remembered because Indians have zero understanding of cricket. Hype over substance always. 

Please have patience with KDK. He is not as bad as Pappu Patel. Don't elevate the latter by comparing with the former. 

Let us give time for KDK. He is currently in a second wind ( or late wind ) of his career. Let him do his best and let us get the maximum out of that. 

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1 minute ago, Switchblade said:

Saha was wonderful wk but his records overseas is abysmal he failed in Australia and in Cape Town don’t think he would have survived in England as a batsman.I know he did well in India and against Windies in Windies but he would have failed in England.

He played a big role in our historic 2015 win in Sri Lanka. He has a 100 outside Asia (Dhoni+Karthik+Patel have combined ZERO) and that was a match winning 100 on a difficult pitch, he came to the crease when we were 120/5...context. In Kolkata he scored 2 unbeaten 50s against NZ on a green mamba for which he got MOM award. So his failure in Cape Town should be held against him...who didn't fail there? Difficult pitch, zero prep, great bowling, behind the curve from day 1.....I can quote 50 instances of Sachin and Lara failing miserably, everyone fails somewhere. 

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1 minute ago, Gollum said:

He played a big role in our historic 2015 win in Sri Lanka. He has a 100 outside Asia (Dhoni+Karthik+Patel have combined ZERO) and that was a match winning 100 on a difficult pitch, he came to the crease when we were 120/5...context. In Kolkata he scored 2 unbeaten 50s against NZ on a green mamba for which he got MOM award. So his failure in Cape Town should be held against him...who didn't fail there? Difficult pitch, zero prep, great bowling, behind the curve from day 1.....I can quote 50 instances of Sachin and Lara failing miserably, everyone fails somewhere. 

I am not supporting Dk or PP but honestly away tours he would have failed himself.

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Just now, sarcastic said:

Please have patience with KDK. He is not as bad as Pappu Patel. Don't elevate the latter by comparing with the former. 

Let us give time for KDK. He is currently in a second wind ( or late wind ) of his career. Let him do his best and let us get the maximum out of that. 

KDK is 33 years old and has played 24 tests, aur kitna patience? I'd rather have a youngster like Pant fail here, kam se kam experience to milega. 

 

KDK may have a 2nd wind but that isn't in test cricket, he should stick to T20/T50. 

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No Saha was never a long term option. India needs a solid batsman as a keeper. Both KKD/Saha are not our solutions for different reasons. India has to move on with someone line Pant. If they intend to play Pandya as 5th bowler India needs a stronger keeper. In this match one catch that KKD dropped cost probably 5 runs. That's it. There is no real different Saha would have made here anyway.

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Just now, Switchblade said:

I am not supporting Dk or PP but honestly away tours he would have failed himself.

He would have done marginally better with the bat and taken all catches...most importantly he would have showed grit. Also he would have forced slip cordon to stand in front so that more balls carry. 

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Just now, vvvslaxman said:

No Saha was never a long term option. India needs a solid batsman as a keeper. Both KKD/Saha are not our solutions for different reasons. India has to move on with someone line Pant. If they intend to play Pandya as 5th bowler India needs a stronger keeper. In this match one catch that KKD dropped cost probably 5 runs. That's it. There is no real different Saha would have made here anyway.

Saha=Healy=Boucher

 

Unless we have a Gilchrist or Kock waiting in the wings Saha should be the 1st pick in the XI. 

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1 minute ago, Gollum said:

Saha=Healy=Boucher

 

Unless we have a Gilchrist or Kock waiting in the wings Saha should be the 1st pick in the XI. 

Might be as a keeper but he isn’t that good as a batsman overseas.

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As we know, keeping is very important in tests and unlike bowlers or batsmen, where you have multiple options, there is only one slot for WK, so he has to be excellent as a keeper 

 

If we play the optimal 5 batsmen and 4 bowlers, a great WK strengthens the wkt taking ability of the unit and a decent AR provides flexibility. The issue is with the selection of the optimal 5 batsmen and 4 bowlers so we try to cover that by either making a compromise with the WK position or playing a extra batsman or bowler in AR's position

Edited by zen

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3 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Saha=Healy=Boucher

 

Unless we have a Gilchrist or Kock waiting in the wings Saha should be the 1st pick in the XI. 

Not even close.   Saha is 33. Not sure how long he is going to be out. India has to bring in a fresh keeper and groom him.  

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3 minutes ago, Switchblade said:

Might be as a keeper but he isn’t that good as a batsman overseas.

Even Healy and Boucher didn't set the world on fire with the bat. Gilchrist had to wait for Healy to leave before his test debut...surely CA that built an ATG team then knew what they were doing. 

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Oh dear lord....haha so true. 

 

Always funny to see the inevitable outcome play out. 

 

Kkd is not the future in any format. Wait and watch. 

 

:phehe:

 

Saha is gethu. 

Karthik is vethu. 

Othukalena ne po sethu. 

 

Epdi.... Hehe

 

 

Edited by sensible-indian

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Just now, R.D forever said:

Ppl who start threads based on one innings should be banned. Ffs give that man a chance for at least 2 tests. 

Well Saha was chastised on this forum based on 1 test in Cape Town, didn't see you complaining then? And DK isn't a debutant, he has been a test failure for the last 13 years. Had Pant failed here no one would have complained. 

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1 minute ago, sensible-indian said:

He drops catches... That alone is enough pa. 

In his defense he went for a catch that he should not have gone to.  For majority of the part of the innings no other major flaws in his keeping given that he is back after a long time. 

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13 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

No Saha was never a long term option. India needs a solid batsman as a keeper. Both KKD/Saha are not our solutions for different reasons. India has to move on with someone line Pant. If they intend to play Pandya as 5th bowler India needs a stronger keeper. In this match one catch that KKD dropped cost probably 5 runs. That's it. There is no real different Saha would have made here anyway.

DK dropped 2 catches.

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Just now, vvvslaxman said:

In his defense he went for a catch that he should not have gone to.  For majority of the part of the innings no other major flaws in his keeping given that he is back after a long time. 

Yeah true but im very skeptical of him.

 

When he made a comeback in 2014, he dropped a crucial catch against Pakistan. 

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Karthik takes 1 blinder and drops 5 sitters. I have been through that torture in the 2008 M&M series (Sri Lanka), he was a complete wreck. Must have missed 15 chances in that series alone. He has always been a rubbish keeper, not as pathetic as Pappu but not worthy of international cricket. 

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2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Come on guys. stop hyping Saha is like Gilchrist/Sanga/Boucher/McCullum rolled in to one lol  Are you telling me Saha never dropped any catch or missed any stumping?

Sanga, Gilly, Flower, Baz-> one type

 

Healy, Boucher, Latif, Saha-> another type

 

Don't make up stuff, no one said he is a combination of all of them. Everybody drops catches just like every batsman fails and every bowler sucks balls....no one is perfect. Healy cost Aus a series in Pak with a simple stumping miss, but he made up for that in the rest of his career. Saha isn't God but he is one of the safest pure keepers of all time. 

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1 minute ago, Gollum said:

Sanga, Gilly, Flower, Baz-> one type

 

Healy, Boucher, Latif, Saha-> another type

 

Don't make up stuff, no one said he is a combination of all of them. Everybody drops catches just like every batsman fails and every bowler sucks balls....no one is perfect. Healy cost Aus a series in Pak with a simple stumping miss, but he made up for that in the rest of his career. Saha isn't God but he is one of the safest pure keepers of all time. 

Bottomline is everybody is susceptible.  We have to weigh all the options and see who could be more useful as a sum. Saha probably has a couple of years left in him assuming he is immediately coming back. At 35 we wanted even Dhoni out. 

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4 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Sanga, Gilly, Flower, Baz-> one type

 

Healy, Boucher, Latif, Saha-> another type

 

Don't make up stuff, no one said he is a combination of all of them. Everybody drops catches just like every batsman fails and every bowler sucks balls....no one is perfect. Healy cost Aus a series in Pak with a simple stumping miss, but he made up for that in the rest of his career. Saha isn't God but he is one of the safest pure keepers of all time. 

Gollum not questioning his wk skills but do you really think he can score overseas he failed in Australia and even of he played in South Africa he would have failed there he isn’t a game changer with the bat.In India things fall in place so lots of them score runs but they fail overseas.

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Gollum not questioning his wk skills but do you really think he can score overseas he failed in Australia and even of he played in South Africa he would have failed there he isn’t a game changer with the bat.In India things fall in place so lots of them score runs but they fail overseas.
I think you don't get it.Wk in test cricket is most important.In history of test cricket except Gilchrist and gilly had a strong batting lineup You will not find many wk avg above 40.

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4 minutes ago, CG said:
11 minutes ago, Switchblade said:
Gollum not questioning his wk skills but do you really think he can score overseas he failed in Australia and even of he played in South Africa he would have failed there he isn’t a game changer with the bat.In India things fall in place so lots of them score runs but they fail overseas.

I think you don't get it.Wk in test cricket is most important.In history of test cricket except Gilchrist and gilly had a strong batting lineup You will not find many wk avg above 40.

I get that CG but he needs to contribute with the bat as well not saying he should score centuries but should make vital contributions with the bat as well.

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16 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Bottomline is everybody is susceptible.  We have to weigh all the options and see who could be more useful as a sum. Saha probably has a couple of years left in him assuming he is immediately coming back. At 35 we wanted even Dhoni out. 

I am not even talking about his return, his health is more important than his cricket career in my eyes. If Pant owns the spot I will be happy. My point was Saha was getting unnecessary criticism for a few isolated failures here and there. I am at peace with his career but had the feeling that he got disproportionate blame for that Cape Town fiasco. Also the myth that Karthik and Pappu are better test options than him had to be busted. Everything points towards the fact that even as a batsman Saha isn't nearly as bad as he is made out to be. His timid and reserved nature shouldn't be a reason for people having clouded judgements about his credentials.  

Edited by Gollum

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10 minutes ago, UnknownGenius said:

The answer to all this is N jagadeesan

 

Quality agile keeper and excellent batsman. Not going to happen under Kohli shastri registration

 

For all you know garbage Rohit Sharma and his pot belly is practicing wicket keeping so he can make a come back and play a Mohammed shehzad role. Opening batsman and pot belly wicket keeping

I thought Kl did wicketkeeping as well is Rohit returning to the test squad as an opener and wk batsman?

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16 minutes ago, Switchblade said:

Gollum not questioning his wk skills but do you really think he can score overseas he failed in Australia and even of he played in South Africa he would have failed there he isn’t a game changer with the bat.In India things fall in place so lots of them score runs but they fail overseas.

No keeper in Indian test history has ever been a game changer overseas, especially in places like SA/Aus which have been historically toughest for our test sides. But Saha has the potential to be game changer in Lanka, WI even with the bat...in SENA countries he can average 20-25 and that is still better than our worse performing specialist batsmen. But he makes up those deficit in runs with his superior keeping

 

Something like this

Saha batting (out of 10)=4

Saha keeping=9

 

Pappu/DK batting= 4.5 (and I am being unfair on Saha here)

Keeping=6 for DK, 4 for Pappu

 

And keeping is so vital in test cricket where drops can cost 100s of runs...moreover a keeper spends 2.5 days keeping with many chances created behind stumps. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Gollum said:

I am not even talking about his return, his health is more important than his cricket career in my eyes. If Pant owns the spot I will be happy. My point was Saha was getting unnecessary criticism for a few isolated failures here and there. I am at peace with his career but had the feeling that he got disproportionate blame for that Cape Town fiasco. Also the myth that Karthik and Pappu are better test options than him had to be busted. Everything points towards the fact that even as a batsman Saha isn't nearly as bad as he is made out to be. His timid and reserved nature shouldn't be a reason for people having clouded judgements about his credentials.  

I still don't consider Saha indispensable notwithstanding the one innings failure of Karthik.  Not even the management trusted him. They sent Ashwin above Saha. True to their judgement he was clueless. Criticism was warranted. Karthik has done well in SA and England before. He has failed in the one innings after his return. Karthik's failure in England will not make Saha a bettern batsman overseas. They are two different things. 

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lol...never knew Saha also has fanbois... what a tragedy

 

DK will do better than Saha...but in any case we need to move on to Pant and Kishan...lets see kismein kitna hai dum...

 

We are back to mediocrity similar to 90s and early 2000s...Lets hope we get another Dhoni...it will be hard to get

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Saha is mentally weak, not good enough player when needed with the bat. Safe keeper though, nothing amazing. I prefer Pappu because he scores hard runs and technically sound, but I realise his keeping is poor. DK is the son of both of them, does a bit of both. Time to let Pant play or maybe Rahul as keeper...

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