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maniac

Let’s stop complaining about these pitches, bowlers will eventually evolve.

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I personally prefer the old school  225-250 type odi pitches with swing early on, getting slow later on, true bounce for batsmen etc., however with the new power play rules, 9 out of 10 times a team chasing such targets will have the advantage .

 

In the context of these new rules, I am kind of liking these English pitches. Let’s not feel too sorry for the bowlers, they will eventually evolve.

 

Leg spinners were out of the game for long but now the are hot property, Finger spinner rules the roost for a while, right now they are struggling but they will figure it out. Team have figured out how to get reverse without blatant tampering etc.

 

Slow bouncer, knuckle ball have come in to the game, batsmen have figured out a way to smash Yorkers with helicopter shots, scoop shots have come into play.

 

The game will continue to evolve and so will the bowlers. Right now these pitches are good for the game and eventually bowlers will figure out a way to even things out just like powerplay bowling has evolved from the time of Jayasuriya and co.

 

I am personally enjoying these pitches than lottery green pitches and dust bowls.

 

Test pitches all over the world have become bowling friendly which is good for test cricket and these flat pitches are good for LOIs.

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1 minute ago, maniac said:

I personally prefer the old school  225-250 type odi pitches with swing early on, getting slow later on, true bounce for batsmen etc., however with the new power play rules, 9 out of 10 times a team chasing such targets will have the advantage .

Those pitches must be brutal for a Rohit fan :dontknow:

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3 minutes ago, maniac said:

I personally prefer the old school  225-250 type odi pitches with swing early on, getting slow later on, true bounce for batsmen etc., however with the new power play rules, 9 out of 10 times a team chasing such targets will have the advantage .

 

In the context of these new rules, I am kind of liking these English pitches. Let’s not feel too sorry for the bowlers, they will eventually evolve.

 

Leg spinners were out of the game for long but now the are hot property, Finger spinner rules the roost for a while, right now they are struggling but they will figure it out. Team have figured out how to get reverse without blatant tampering etc.

 

Slow bouncer, knuckle ball have come in to the game, batsmen have figured out a way to smash Yorkers with helicopter shots, scoop shots have come into play.

 

The game will continue to evolve and so will the bowlers. Right now these pitches are good for the game and eventually bowlers will figure out a way to even things out just like powerplay bowling has evolved from the time of Jayasuriya and co.

 

I am personally enjoying these pitches than lottery green pitches and dust bowls.

 

Test pitches all over the world have become bowling friendly which is good for test cricket and these flat pitches are good for LOIs.

Nonsense, they are making these pitches in England to suit their team. These pitches are killing all the interest in the sport.Bowlers have become redudant.It is not that hard to leave some grass or make pitches with something in for bowlers in England.We are seeing totally opposite in test matches there .

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11 minutes ago, maniac said:

I am personally enjoying these pitches than lottery green pitches and dust bowls.

Why does it have to be this extreme or the other? Why not similar pitches that were laid out in 2011 WC, IMO the last major ODI tournament which nailed bat/ball balance perfectly. Even the recent Asia Cup pitches made for pleasant viewing, surprisingly those decks gave the quicks enough ammunition to keep batsmen honest.

 

I don't enjoy these 450 meets 420 pitches, why even pretend to have bowlers then? Not that I care much, I hope this format goes to the dogs and we are left with only tests and T20s...and it will when fans get bored. Not just pitches even the boundaries are getting shorter, that goes against basic common sense, ODI cricket should take a leaf out of golf when it comes to boundary dimensions. 

Edited by Gollum

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23 minutes ago, maniac said:

I personally prefer the old school  225-250 type odi pitches with swing early on, getting slow later on, true bounce for batsmen etc., however with the new power play rules, 9 out of 10 times a team chasing such targets will have the advantage .

 

In the context of these new rules, I am kind of liking these English pitches. Let’s not feel too sorry for the bowlers, they will eventually evolve.

 

Leg spinners were out of the game for long but now the are hot property, Finger spinner rules the roost for a while, right now they are struggling but they will figure it out. Team have figured out how to get reverse without blatant tampering etc.

 

Slow bouncer, knuckle ball have come in to the game, batsmen have figured out a way to smash Yorkers with helicopter shots, scoop shots have come into play.

 

The game will continue to evolve and so will the bowlers. Right now these pitches are good for the game and eventually bowlers will figure out a way to even things out just like powerplay bowling has evolved from the time of Jayasuriya and co.

 

I am personally enjoying these pitches than lottery green pitches and dust bowls.

 

Test pitches all over the world have become bowling friendly which is good for test cricket and these flat pitches are good for LOIs.

maniac you are boxing yourself into one mould. Rohit fan.  This is the reason you need so many id's. No post you make can be read without that maniac fanboyism of Rohit flavour, I like Rohit too but he has flaws, guy cant play swing or any lateral movement to save his life.

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No thanks. 

 

I've always believed that sporting wickets are the best choice for both odis and t20s. And challenging (for batting) wickets for test matches. There should never ever be flatbeds in international cricket. Or else we won't see fast bowlers in the future. All we'd have are darters and wristies. I mean who'd want to waste his energy by running all the way from boundary only to be get smacked with a flat bat over his head. :sleep:

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1 minute ago, Vilander said:

maniac you are boxing yourself into one mould. Rohit fan.  This is the reason you need so many id's. No post you make can be read without that maniac fanboyism of Rohit flavour, I like Rohit too but he has flaws, guy cant play swing or any lateral movement to save his life.

Ok here we go with this crap again. 

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7 minutes ago, chewy said:

They are horrible, I watched few balls of today Eng Pak game, and  saw Zaman slogging Archer's good length 90mph for six :nervous:

 

These pitches would be ok if Duke balls are allowed

horrible pitches that negate quality gamesmanship over brute power. Same **** happened with astroturfs in field hockey.  England would love for any form of finesse to be removed from the game to make it the most fit most arm power athletes win throwoff/hitout game etc. 

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17 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Why does it have to be this extreme or the other? Why not similar pitches that were laid out in 2011 WC, IMO the last major ODI tournament which nailed bat/ball balance perfectly. Even the recent Asia Cup pitches made for pleasant viewing, surprisingly those decks gave the quicks enough ammunition to keep batsmen honest.

 

I don't enjoy these 450 meets 420 pitches, why even pretend to have bowlers then? Not that I care much, I hope this format goes to the dogs and we are left with only tests and T20s...and it will when fans get bored. Not just pitches even the boundaries are getting shorter, that goes against basic common sense, ODI cricket should take a leaf out of golf when it comes to boundary dimensions. 

dude even the great nidhas had better pitches than the **** in england in recent time hope pitches play better in WC.

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@Vilander I didn’t mean that as disrespect to you but usually that is a crutch for some of the guys who bring no value, not expected. As I said people on this forum by now can differentiate when something is an actual serious cricketing debate it when it is light banter. Goes for any poster.

 

Maybe I should pull off a Robin Williams- clean shaven for comedy roles and beard for serious roles :) tough to do that on an online forum

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1 minute ago, maniac said:

@Vilander I didn’t mean that as disrespect to you but usually that is a crutch for some of the guys who bring no value, not expected. As I said people on this forum by now can differentiate when something is an actual serious cricketing debate it when it is light banter. Goes for any poster.

 

Maybe I should pull off a Robin Williams- clean shaven for comedy roles and beard for serious roles :) tough to do that on an online forum

totally understand that man, i will treat this a serious thread. mark your serious threads with something like a S bold lol.

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Watching a batsman counter a tough pitch and good bowling, isn’t that the same as a bowler upping his game and countering flat tracks and small boundaries.

 

I love watching a good spell of Bowling too but remember a batsman needs just one mistake to get out on the other hand the bowler can go 6,6,6,6 and pick up 2 wickets and redeem himself  

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22 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Why does it have to be this extreme or the other? Why not similar pitches that were laid out in 2011 WC, IMO the last major ODI tournament which nailed bat/ball balance perfectly. Even the recent Asia Cup pitches made for pleasant viewing, surprisingly those decks gave the quicks enough ammunition to keep batsmen honest.

 

I don't enjoy these 450 meets 420 pitches, why even pretend to have bowlers then? Not that I care much, I hope this format goes to the dogs and we are left with only tests and T20s...and it will when fans get bored. Not just pitches even the boundaries are getting shorter, that goes against basic common sense, ODI cricket should take a leaf out of golf when it comes to boundary dimensions. 

Eng want their hacks hoicks and slogs to sail far from the boundary againt the hit the deck barrage that will come to them from SA/AUS/IND. but what they do not realise it, if they pull them in too small there are others who might benefit more ( read WI). stranger things have happened, Eng will have an other heartbreak at the hands of WI. 

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2 minutes ago, maniac said:

Watching a batsman counter a tough pitch and good bowling, isn’t that the same as a bowler upping his game and countering flat tracks and small boundaries.

balance is hte key. watching a batsman struggle in a minefiled or a raging turner or unplayable green top is compelling viewing but watching them compile a good inning in a balanced wicket is even more so. Flip side bowler padding stats in the above said conditions is poor viewing as bats are struggling any way it becomes worthless. 

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17 minutes ago, chewy said:

They are horrible, I watched few balls of today Eng Pak game, and  saw Zaman slogging Archer's good length 90mph for six :nervous:

 

These pitches would be ok if Duke balls are allowed

How is it different from a slow pitch where the team batting first has the advantage and green track where the team batting 2nd has the advantage. The new PP rules makes it easy for a team batting 2nd anyways. Now with that in mind, teams don’t know what is a safe target anymore. That makes it exciting from ball 1.

 

Now ball is in the bowlers court to evolve and innovate. It has happened throughout cricket history. We need to change with times and evolve, not clamor for the past.

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5 minutes ago, maniac said:

Watching a batsman counter a tough pitch and good bowling, isn’t that the same as a bowler upping his game and countering flat tracks and small boundaries.

 

I love watching a good spell of Bowling too but remember a batsman needs just one mistake to get out on the other hand the bowler can go 6,6,6,6 and pick up 2 wickets and redeem himself  

 

remember that SA game two seasons back, only Kallis and Tendulkar could make centuries everyone else and their grandmom struggled in that pitch, just these two did not and it was clear the pitch demanded something that every batsman except these two lacked. that's compelling viewing. 

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1 minute ago, Vilander said:

balance is hte key. watching a batsman struggle in a minefiled or a raging turner or unplayable green top is compelling viewing but watching them compile a good inning in a balanced wicket is even more so. Flip side bowler padding stats in the above said conditions is poor viewing as bats are struggling any way it becomes worthless. 

Fair enough but any commercial product is marketed to the masses not to the purists. People like 4s and 6s. Period. This brings in eyeballs. Once they get used to it and become purists bowlers will have to evolve. That’s a cycle that applies to anything.

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Why must the onus always lie on bowlers to evolve? Why never the batsmen? You prepare a dustbowl or green mamba (of late) and ICC loses its marbles....prepare a patta and its kosher. How long will bowlers be treated like lowest castes in our sport? And they do the bulk of the work, brave serious injuries, pain etc while batsmen are the lazy bums. 

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6 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Why must the onus always lie on bowlers to evolve? Why never the batsmen? You prepare a dustbowl or green mamba (of late) and ICC loses its marbles....prepare a patta and its kosher. How long will bowlers be treated like lowest castes in our sport? And they do the bulk of the work, brave serious injuries, pain etc while batsmen are the lazy bums. 

Scoop shot, countering inswinging Yorkers by standing deep in side the crease/helicopter shots, switch hits etc. isn’t that evolution?

 

 

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3 minutes ago, cowboysfan said:

how?.bowlers have always  depended  on the pitch to give them something to work  with,these pitches are lifeless.i wouldn't  watch a session  if a test had similar pitches. 

Tests should be bowling friendly and LOIs should be batting friendly.

 

Infact if batting strike rates and averages ,average team scores and even bowling economies and averages have gone up in LOIs

 

Bowling averages for spinners and pacers look like a million bucks these days 

 

 

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These wickets are at most acceptable on rare occasion, not the norm. What next, play using a ball without seam and let the bowlers evolve ?

 

Besides the pitch, if only they made a ball which lasted 50 overs, which can't be so hard. Replacing the worn out ball wasn't this bad. 

 

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Perhaps the white balls being used aren't of the same quality as red balls either. They also need to look at the balls being used. Red balls are more favorable to bowlers and are generally better quality, at least historically this has been the case. May be look to improving the quality of the ball so they don't die off early and bowlers can still find one side shine at the end of 20th over. 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, maniac said:

Scoop shot, countering inswinging Yorkers by standing deep in side the crease/helicopter shots, switch hits etc. isn’t that evolution?

 

Fair enough, batsmen can play the scoops and helicopters on normal pitches, why the need to further flatten them? So that perfectly executed deliveries on 4th stump good length get deposited 15 rows back over cow corner with minimum effort/risk? Admit it man, these minor innovations like scoop and upper cut have been in the game for a long time, only recently have scores skyrocketed. Not because of these gimmicks but because more good balls are being deposited for 4s/6s courtesy batsmen hitting across the line with no fear of ball changing its trajectory. Check where bulk of the runs come these days.

 

If bat technology can be changed so that they get massive wooden clubs the weight of tooth brushes why can't the state of the ball be altered? Maybe have a prominent seam on deliveries (like Dukes) and ensure they don't lose their shine after 3 overs....don't even need to change the weight of the ball to do all this. But no, bowlers get the Kookaburra which has no proper seam and which loses shine after the 1st hit to the boundary.

 

Why 2 new balls? To eliminate reverse swing and spin, attacking 2 vital components of bowling.....maybe next time ask batsmen to eliminate cover drive and square cut from their repertoire and then we'll see how evolved they are with 2 major tools lacking. Again if durability of the ball is a concern, play with 2 Dukes :dontknow: 

 

Leaving aside PP rules which have especially harmed spinners so much, in this age of spring loaded super bats what's the need to bring in boundary ropes resulting in mishits of wicket taking deliveries going for sixes?

 

Switch hit...seriously man, in that case why should a bowler announce over/round the wicket before every over....allow him the luxury to change the angle of approach in his final finish...but nah, that's illegal. 

 

Batsman can do Kathakali to distract the bowler but if the bowler does some funky thing umpire calls it dead ball. Batsman can choose to meet the ball anywhere, even halfway down the pitch but bowler has to abide by the laxman rekha, else no ball and the depravity called free hit. If bowler does a mankaded he is made to feel guilty even though ICC rules support him. Batsman can hit anywhere but wides get called liberally. Andy Roberts developed 2 kinds of bouncers but hey in this era 2nd bouncer=wide even if well directed.

 

Open your eyes maniac garu, batsmen have it way too easy and the game is rigged in their flavor. It is literally a master-slave relation in its current form, bowler has limited combinations of moves to work with, but batsmen has no restriction. Think of it as a chess game between 2 players where one plays a move, followed by multiple moves by the other, keeps on repeating...each move responded by multiple moves by opponent..is it a fair fight? Or making a boxer fight an MMA fighter in a special rules arena where both parties will have to abide by the rules of their respective sports, fists vs whole body.

 

Bottom-line: You can't tie the hands of bowlers and expect them to evolve. Each successive rule change enforced by the governing body is only defanging the low caste participants of cricket.

Edited by Gollum

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1 hour ago, maniac said:

How is it different from a slow pitch where the team batting first has the advantage and green track where the team batting 2nd has the advantage. The new PP rules makes it easy for a team batting 2nd anyways. Now with that in mind, teams don’t know what is a safe target anymore. That makes it exciting from ball 1.

 

Now ball is in the bowlers court to evolve and innovate. It has happened throughout cricket history. We need to change with times and evolve, not clamor for the past.

Batsmen has evolved thanks to thicker and heavier bats

Maybe bowlers can evolve if allowed to use infamous White Duke ball

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From Ind's perspective, I am not too sure if these tracks could benefit as:

 

  • For a change, Ind's strength is bowling, which could be nullified on such tracks 
  • Ind's has quite a few low SR players, who think that a flat track is an opportunity to score a 100 even if it leads to a below-par total. For e.g. a 100 of 100 balls is not the same as 100 of 80 balls aimed at driving the momentum away from the other team on such tracks

 

Ind will have to play exceptional cricket to make it to the knockouts! I do not see an automatic place for it just because other teams do not appear that strong on paper 

 

Edited by zen

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2 hours ago, maniac said:

One thing though, you need to increase the boundary size. People love power hitting and distance. A guy like Rahane hitting 60m 6s is disgraceful. I am ok with these pitches, not the boundary sizes

Definitely they need to increase the boundary sizes.

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17 minutes ago, Laaloo said:

Pakistani bowlers strike rate in the first 10 over season is 86 lol. England is 60. India is 41. 

 

Stats for for this year 

I do not follow Pak cricket much but Eng plays on batting beauties at home and had that series in WI where Gayle was unstoppable :fear1:

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Not sure how they will evolve when getting hit all around the park. One thing we can expect is that more bowlers/team mates getting caught cheating (sand paper gate style). If wickets are not coming, more will go the sand paper gate route. The more incident like that occurs, more likely chance for them to get caught. 

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No they wont. 

 

For someone to evolve they need to be provided an environment. Flat track with no movement, hardly any grip with 60-70m boundary and less than 4 fielders outside circle for 40overs how will a bowler evolve ? 

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I don't pity pace bowlers at all even as a pace bowlers fan. If they have it in them they will make a name like Bumrah, Rabada etc. They may be expensive and yet bowl well just like Rohit might score runs but at the expense of slow starts ( :phehe: ) or Pujara not scoring much runs on a green mamba but sees through a large chunk of bowling. Eventually one knows who did well in the context of pitch/conditions, quality of pace attack, teams requirements etc.

Edited by Pollack

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On 5/17/2019 at 8:27 PM, maniac said:

One thing though, you need to increase the boundary size. People love power hitting and distance. A guy like Rahane hitting 60m 6s is disgraceful. I am ok with these pitches, not the boundary sizes

Good point. The boundaries should definitely be longer in most countries.

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You can't increase boundaries sizes everywhere, some grounds for example in NZ are small and even Chinnaswamy is also very small.The only way to make matches more meaningful than these slugfest is make pitches more condusive to bowling and get rid of Kookaburra ball.

 

Why is no English journalist complaing about these pitches, they were whining when India was rolling out flat decks.

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Just now, JourneyMan said:

To be honest I am. I like seeing wickets fall. 

Whats the point. The new rules making chasing easy. No way 9 out of 10 times a 180- 200 can be defended.

 

Sure enjoyed Pakistan getting drubbed but for other reasons but it was a poor quality cricket match.

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