MS Dhoni mega discussion thread

[Muloghonto]

Just now, Laaloo said:

It's easier to average high when you're not looking to score a boundary and happy to not take risks until the 49th over. Pant can come and not rely on the other batsman to do all the work so he can lollygag at the other end. 

 

If you dont want to get embarrassed in the next world cup again, then yes its time to move on from Dhoni. 

if it were so easy to average high, everyone would be averaging high the moment their strike rates are down. Scoring runs is still #1 job over strike rate, as no matter how good your team's strike rate is, if you don't have enough runs, you will not win. Give me 240/5 in 50 overs any day of the week over 150 all-out in 25 overs. Cannot drop a cricketer as long as they are scoring runs/taking wickets.

And cannot drop a keeper easily until you have a keeper as good as him. And we all know, Pant is nowhere near Dhoni as a keeper as of yet. 

 

I highly doubt if we get embarrassed next world cup, it will be due to the best wicketkeeper in the world scoring a mountain of runs at 85 strike rate.

 

[Laaloo]

1 minute ago, Muloghonto said:

if it were so easy to average high, everyone would be averaging high the moment their strike rates are down. Scoring runs is still #1 job over strike rate, as no matter how good your team's strike rate is, if you don't have enough runs, you will not win. Give me 240/5 in 50 overs any day of the week over 150 all-out in 25 overs. Cannot drop a cricketer as long as they are scoring runs/taking wickets.

And cannot drop a keeper easily until you have a keeper as good as him. And we all know, Pant is nowhere near Dhoni as a keeper as of yet. 

 

I highly doubt if we get embarrassed next world cup, it will be due to the best wicketkeeper in the world scoring a mountain of runs at 85 strike rate.

 

You think saha is a reserve keeper for LOIS lol. You know nothing Ghonto.

Dhoni averages high because he shuts shop at the other while the other guy does all the work and then score some freebies. 

Pant is way better against fast bowlers than Dhoni is. The only thing where Dhoni edges out is use of DRS and regular stumpings. 

[Muloghonto]

Just now, Laaloo said:

You think saha is a reserve keeper for LOIS lol. You know nothing Ghonto.

Dhoni averages high because he shuts shop at the other while the other guy does all the work and then score some freebies. 

Pant is way better against fast bowlers than Dhoni is. The only thing where Dhoni edges out is use of DRS and regular stumpings. 

 

As i said, if averaging high was so easy, everyone who's strike rate is down, would automatically end with high average.

 

Pant is way worse than Dhoni in LoIs. Facts show that Pant struggles in 50 over format against B-grade teams. Dhoni is miles and miles better htan him right now. 

 

[Laaloo]

Just now, Muloghonto said:

 

As i said, if averaging high was so easy, everyone who's strike rate is down, would automatically end with high average.

 

Pant is way worse than Dhoni in LoIs. Facts show that Pant struggles in 50 over format against B-grade teams. Dhoni is miles and miles better htan him right now. 

 

That's because everyone else apart from dhoni is looking to score runs at each ball. That's why they lose their wickets becuase they know as soon as Dhoni comes to the crease, the runs will stop flowing. 

[Muloghonto]

1 minute ago, Laaloo said:

That's because everyone else apart from dhoni is looking to score runs at each ball. That's why they lose their wickets becuase they know as soon as Dhoni comes to the crease, the runs will stop flowing. 

So in entire international cricket, only Dhoni has the ability to compile runs at an 80-85 strike rate. Damn. He is even better than i thought. You already showed, he is smarter than your sifarishi kids by knowing who to target and when. 

 

[Muloghonto]

4 minutes ago, Laaloo said:

When did I use Pant losing his father as an excuse? Sifarish is someone who has no business of being selected but is selected becase of bribery or nepotism. i.e Dhoni selecing Negi, etc. 

You mean like a kid who's barely been ordinary at A-tours, being shoe-horned into LoI side by some, to replace the 4th highest run scorer with best average and 5th best strike rate for the year, who also happens to be the best keeper in the country ??

 

4 minutes ago, Laaloo said:

He should have already been in the T20 team over Dhoni a year ago. Dhoni should have been out of T20s for years now. He has no business being there. 

As I said before, his T20 record and FC record is excellent so far. And I'm not asking him to be in the Test team yet. But T20s, absolutely. ODis? I dont see why not against the likes of Windies and Lanka. 

A year ago ?

A year ago, Pant was an untested, untried 18 year old who's still not done growing. As i said and you wish to run away from this fact- there is a reason why hardly any wicketkeeper debuts in their teens in international cricket. 

 

You want to consider his t20 domestic record but not IPL, where superior bowlers are around....ya ok, i see some shifty logic there, not consistency. 

I already said why not for any international cricket : kid is not ready and kid has done nothing to merit selection. 

If 'why not' to Sifarishi Pant, then why not anyone else ? 

[Vilander]

5 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

if Rahul doesn't rely on identifying the weakest link of the bowling unit and plundering him, one should teach him this basic skill.

Are you a sports fan ? really ? because sports is about winning. Not honor-contest. there is no extra prize for smashing the best bowler, there is only one prize: winning. And easiest way to win, is to exploit the weak points of your opposition. 

Dhoni these days bats the same way as Misbah...dealing with boundaries and dots when starting, rotaintg srtike when set and trying for big shots near the end. Perfectly valid way of batting for #3/4.

 

He is just a modi bhakt.

[Laaloo]

2 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

You mean like a kid who's barely been ordinary at A-tours, being shoe-horned into LoI side by some, to replace the 4th highest run scorer with best average and 5th best strike rate for the year, who also happens to be the best keeper in the country ??

 

A year ago ?

A year ago, Pant was an untested, untried 18 year old who's still not done growing. As i said and you wish to run away from this fact- there is a reason why hardly any wicketkeeper debuts in their teens in international cricket. 

 

You want to consider his t20 domestic record but not IPL, where superior bowlers are around....ya ok, i see some shifty logic there, not consistency. 

I already said why not for any international cricket : kid is not ready and kid has done nothing to merit selection. 

If 'why not' to Sifarishi Pant, then why not anyone else ? 

No I mean a kid who averages 61 in FC with a strike rate of 102 and in T20s average of 27 with a strike rate of 148, granted he hasn't had a great time in List A now, to replace a guy who comes to the crease and blocks on end, resulting in the striker at the other having to take unnecessary risks so this guy can play for not outs and boost his average, who only happens to be the best keeper against spinners. As an overall package with Keeping, Pant is better.

 

Yes a year ago. Why not? Dhoni is godawful in t20s. Why not select Pant for low profile series? 

 

Steyn said himself that IPL is a paid holiday so forgive me if I dont take it seriously. Forgive Steyn as well. And I just checked, Pant averages 25.63 with a strike rate of 151 despite Dravid trying his best this season to promote Nair over him. 

 

If you want to continue living in mediocrity because of some preconceived notion that Dhoni is still great, then I cant help you. Continue to live in denial. 

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, Laaloo said:

No I mean a kid who averages 61 in FC with a strike rate of 102 and in T20s average of 27 with a strike rate of 148, granted he hasn't had a great time in List A now, to replace a guy who comes to the crease and blocks on end, resulting in the striker at the other having to take unnecessary risks so this guy can play for not outs and boost his average, who only happens to be the best keeper against spinners. As an overall package with Keeping, Pant is better.

So if he hasn't had a great time in ListA, why should he be pushed to even harder LoIs ? Its fairly basic- if you fail to stand out at a lower level, there is zero justification for making a higher level jump.

As for 61 averages - beginners luck. Lots of players- Rayudu, Raina, Iyer - all of them had good 1st season and shat the bed in their 2nd season. And Saha is bullet-proof in tests- he has averaged 40+ for 2 consecutive years with the bat and is an amazing keeper. Pant or the kids have to wait, simple.

 

1 hour ago, Laaloo said:

Yes a year ago. Why not? Dhoni is godawful in t20s. Why not select Pant for low profile series? 

Because he is not ready and has not shown anything to deserve a spot in the team. I'd rather properly prepare a youngster for one of the most physically demanding jobs (good keeper + good batsman) in international cricket than just blood them too young. Look what happened to Parthiv.

 

1 hour ago, Laaloo said:

Steyn said himself that IPL is a paid holiday so forgive me if I dont take it seriously. Forgive Steyn as well. And I just checked, Pant averages 25.63 with a strike rate of 151 despite Dravid trying his best this season to promote Nair over him. 

If IPL is a paid holiday, then domestic t20 is even worse. 

 

1 hour ago, Laaloo said:

If you want to continue living in mediocrity because of some preconceived notion that Dhoni is still great, then I cant help you. Continue to live in denial. 

there is no mediocrity for a batsman who averages 90+, scores 40+ runs at 85 strike rate. For most specialist batsmen, that is gold. When you combine that with the safest and quickest hands in the world for a wicketkeeper, thats bullet-proof and agenda-driven to call that mediocrity.

I have no preconceived notions, I do have data though. And data shows Dhoni just as a specialist bat is good enough for Indian team this year, never mind the fact that he is a way, way better keeper than rest of his competition.

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 hours ago, Laaloo said:

Yes a year ago. Why not? Dhoni is godawful in t20s. Why not select Pant for low profile series? 

One thing i agree with u 

7 hours ago, Laaloo said:

 

Steyn said himself that IPL is a paid holiday so forgive me if I dont take it seriously. Forgive Steyn as well. And I just checked, Pant averages 25.63 with a strike rate of 151 despite Dravid trying his best this season to promote Nair over him. 

 

2nd thing to............never thought a day like that wud come 

[velu]

 

 

 

 

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[Laaloo]

1 hour ago, velu said:

 

 

 

 

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Great. Maybe he can replace Daya on CID  

[Pollack]

On 19/09/2017 at 12:29 AM, Muloghonto said:

 

As i said, if averaging high was so easy, everyone who's strike rate is down, would automatically end with high average.

 

Pant is way worse than Dhoni in LoIs. Facts show that Pant struggles in 50 over format against B-grade teams. Dhoni is miles and miles better htan him right now. 

 

This post shows dhoni fans are frustrated and are finding it hard to defend dhoni. This is lolworthy post to be honest.  Notice how Facts show....

Facts? How much have Pant even played in LOI dude?

 

[velu]

1 hour ago, Pollack said:

This post shows dhoni fans are frustrated and are finding it hard to defend dhoni. This is lolworthy post to be honest.  Notice how Facts show....

Facts? How much have Pant even played in LOI dude?

 

 

 

 

[Vk1]

Dhoni clearly is done. He will still score against teams with poor fast bowling resources like srilanka or west indies and against bowlers who bowl mid 130s at max. Nothing wrong with Dhoni it's just natural that hand eye coordination comes down with age and you become a shadow of what you were.  We play him 2 years later in 2019 at the crucial number 5,6 positions and we are probably going to repent much like how we played Ashwin Jadeja in CT not realising that LOI game has moved on with finger spinners.

[wanted_desi]

Ofcourse when he comes after 35th over, he can't take 25 (50) approach, hence scoring 5 runs. He is so done at this level, his high scoring at low strike rate will lose you same amount of matches he will win at that strike rate in future, specially in World Cup where 330 is minimum score on flat pitches.  

[Laaloo]

11 minutes ago, wanted_desi said:

Ofcourse when he comes after 35th over, he can't take 25 (50) approach, hence scoring 5 runs. He is so done at this level, his high scoring at low strike rate will lose you same amount of matches he will win at that strike rate in future, specially in World Cup where 330 is minimum score on flat pitches.  

But but but he averages 90 

Edited September 21, 2017 by Laaloo

[speedheat]

5 off 10 today... technique tweak...lol

 

 

[Gollum]

He is a liability, will be eaten for breakfast by genuine quicks on any pitch. 

[Laaloo]

1 minute ago, speedheat said:

5 off 10 technique tweak...lol

He would have made 25(30)*if phaast bowler Faulkner had played.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Laaloo