Can Root do it which Kohli couldn't?

[sandeep]

Just now, Austin 3:!6 said:

Mr.Headbutt and Bhai is still there?

Ali is key to the chase at this point.  Bairstow is also quality, but Ali is a more dangerous batsman to Australia at this point, because he tends to score quickly while he's at the crease.  I think Lyon is likely to take Ali off the table though.   

 

On paper, England have an excellent chance to win this test - especially if the current pair can bat out the first 10 overs tonight. runout or controversial decision etc to tilt it back to the Aussies.  

 

 

[Forever Indian]

Revisiting that Adeliade test last day:

 

India had a target of 364 and got to 242/2 and then collapsed to 315 AO.

• As usual Dhawan gone for single digit, this time to a bouncer
• Vijay got a wonderful 99 and missed a straight ball from Lyon in the hurry to get a single
• Kohli was in wonderful form whole series and got a century before a brainfart with batsmen falling at other end
• Saha had a very big brainfart
• Rohit at his useless best
• Rahane got a wrong decision
• Nothing much to expect from the others

 

Pretty much the exact same lineup is going to SA. Rahane is in horrendous form compared to then, only hope is Pujara has a better mental state than then.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Forever Indian

[Cricketics]

4 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Don't want to jinx it as I am a big fan of Joe Root but can he chase down the target in Adelaide? This game reminds me of Kohli's epic knock in 2nd innings at Adelaide where he took us so close to victory but failed at the last hurdle. Can Root do it this time?

 

#LetsDoItRoot

Even though Root would have done great if England wins, Kohli and not to forget Vijay were incredible that day and we were chasing mammoth total compared to what England is doing.

 

It was also first test unlike here where England has been in Australia for a month now and very used to the conditions.

 

 

England need just 170 on the last day while India needed a lot more and that game was more supposed to be a draw or Australia winning going into day 5 right from the start. Here its 60-40 to Australia so England does have a good chance right before the first ball ha ls been bowler on day 5s

 

[adi B]

Australia will go for the kill and win it easily in the end 

[New guy]

Root has been constantly found to be coming up short of a good score after scoring a 50. This is why he is below Smith and Kohli. From cricinfo

 

"Since Jan 2016, Root has made 17 fifties, the same as Kohli, Smith and Williamson combined. He has just five hundreds, compared to 21 for Kohli + Smith + Williamson."

[Laaloo]

Root is Englands KLR

[Cricketics]

6 minutes ago, New guy said:

Root has been constantly found to be coming up short of a good score after scoring a 50. This is why he is below Smith and Kohli. From cricinfo

 

"Since Jan 2016, Root has made 17 fifties, the same as Kohli, Smith and Williamson combined. He has just five hundreds, compared to 21 for Kohli + Smith + Williamson."

He is still ahead of Kohli overall by average and will surely stay ahead until Virat completes another good overseas run like last time he did in South Africa and Australia. This time he needs to do a little better in England he will go ahead of Root then. But for now its Smith--Root and then Kohli very near. 

No I am  not taking home scores for granted. They need to be scored and Kohli is doing fine, but we have a serious tough tasks ahead for next 14-15 months so it will be better to rate both of them next year. 

[maniac]

8 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

He is still ahead of Kohli overall by average and will surely stay ahead until Virat completes another good overseas run like last time he did in South Africa and Australia. This time he needs to do a little better in England he will go ahead of Root then. But for now its Smith--Root and then Kohli very near. 

No I am  not taking home scores for granted. They need to be scored and Kohli is doing fine, but we have a serious tough tasks ahead for next 14-15 months so it will be better to rate both of them next year. 

Root is not better than Kohli, infact the most underrated in the bunch is Williamson who is better than Root according to me.

 

[New guy]

19 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

He is still ahead of Kohli overall by average and will surely stay ahead until Virat completes another good overseas run like last time he did in South Africa and Australia. This time he needs to do a little better in England he will go ahead of Root then. But for now its Smith--Root and then Kohli very near. 

No I am  not taking home scores for granted. They need to be scored and Kohli is doing fine, but we have a serious tough tasks ahead for next 14-15 months so it will be better to rate both of them next year. 

Kohli has a better average than Root. Why does he need to do a little better in England specifically? Which country should Root do a little better in?

[Gollum]

Root is officially behind Kohli in my book. Next time (2018 tour) English commentators harp on about Kohli's record in UK hope Sunny shuts them up by pointing out Root's abysmal record in Aus and his constant choking when the tide is against him. Smith is so far ahead of this bunch that it isn't even funny anymore, hope these guys step up because domination by one guy is so boring.

 

I expect Kock and Rahul (if the selfish insecure brat doesn't drop him every time to ward off a potentially better player) to eventually enter the top league but displacing Smith from the numero uno spot will be very tough. 

[rkt.india]

14 hours ago, Gollum said:

OK bro just explain me something. When did it start turning square? Day 3? Day 4? Or only Day 5? I am not ready to believe that 1300 runs were scored in the 1st 4 days (with 5 100s and a 100 in each innings by Warner, one of the worst players against spin) and suddenly it became a square turner on day 5. You are hyping up that VK knock for no reason. No 2 batsmen can stick together a 200 run partnership on a rank turner like Vijay and Kohli did that day. The greatest partnership on a rank turner I have seen was the one by VVS-SRT in Mumbai 2004 and that was just a 94 run partnership against Hauritz and Michael Clarke. Do you really believe that Vijay and VK are that much better than SRT-VVS against spin or Hauritz-Clarke duo is that much better than Lyon? If indeed Vijay and Kohli were that great that day I wonder why (esp Kohli) couldn't replicate their success in Nagpur 2015, Mohali 2015, Pune 2017, Bengaluru 2017............ In those turners (except 2nd innings of Bengaluru) our team aggregate itself wasn't even close 200 !!!!! Vijay has played some vital knocks on square turners but Kohli has failed in every single innings he has played on a rank turner.

 

The Adelaide win by Australia was because of 2 things:

1. We choked badly near the finishing line.

2. Lyon was brilliant that day as he has been against us his entire career, I think he is someone who brings out his best against us. Moreover we had a period in 2013-15 where we simply couldn't play off spin. Moeen Ali destroyed us in England, Duminy troubled us in SA and Lyon is a far far superior bowler to those 2. I remember a few threads during that period lamenting our decline against off spin bowling. We were so clueless against off spin during that period that it isn't surprising we lost to Lyon on day 5.

 

I stand by my statement that it wasn't a square turner, at max it was a like a typical day 4 Indian pitch. 

did you even watch the game? Lyon was turning the ball big on 5th day from foot marks.

[Trichromatic]

32 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

He is still ahead of Kohli overall by average and will surely stay ahead until Virat completes another good overseas run like last time he did in South Africa and Australia. This time he needs to do a little better in England he will go ahead of Root then. But for now its Smith--Root and then Kohli very near. 

No I am  not taking home scores for granted. They need to be scored and Kohli is doing fine, but we have a serious tough tasks ahead for next 14-15 months so it will be better to rate both of them next year. 

How exactly Root ahead of Kohli?

 

Kohli 106 inn, 5268 runs, avg 53.75, 20 centuries

Root 114 matches, 5465 runs, avg 53.05, 13 centuries

 

Home: Kohli 63.5 Root 59.46, both with 10 centuries

Away Kohli 45.13 (10 centuries) Root 45.42 (3 centuries)

 

Kohli has already left Root behind for now.

 

 

[Gollum]

4 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

did you even watch the game? Lyon was turning the ball big on 5th day from foot marks.

I watched that match alright. Pitch wasn't a square turner, Lyon bowled brilliantly and he proved to the world that he was a great spinner. It wasn't like Nagpur 2015 or Pune 2017, so definitely playable. It was more our choking, Lyon brilliance and weakness against off spin that decided the match, not the pitch. 

[rkt.india]

14 hours ago, Gollum said:

OK bro just explain me something. When did it start turning square? Day 3? Day 4? Or only Day 5? I am not ready to believe that 1300 runs were scored in the 1st 4 days (with 5 100s and a 100 in each innings by Warner, one of the worst players against spin) and suddenly it became a square turner on day 5. You are hyping up that VK knock for no reason. No 2 batsmen can stick together a 200 run partnership on a rank turner like Vijay and Kohli did that day. The greatest partnership on a rank turner I have seen was the one by VVS-SRT in Mumbai 2004 and that was just a 94 run partnership against Hauritz and Michael Clarke. Do you really believe that Vijay and VK are that much better than SRT-VVS against spin or Hauritz-Clarke duo is that much better than Lyon? If indeed Vijay and Kohli were that great that day I wonder why (esp Kohli) couldn't replicate their success in Nagpur 2015, Mohali 2015, Pune 2017, Bengaluru 2017............ In those turners (except 2nd innings of Bengaluru) our team aggregate itself wasn't even close 200 !!!!! Vijay has played some vital knocks on square turners but Kohli has failed in every single innings he has played on a rank turner.

 

The Adelaide win by Australia was because of 2 things:

1. We choked badly near the finishing line.

2. Lyon was brilliant that day as he has been against us his entire career, I think he is someone who brings out his best against us. Moreover we had a period in 2013-15 where we simply couldn't play off spin. Moeen Ali destroyed us in England, Duminy troubled us in SA and Lyon is a far far superior bowler to those 2. I remember a few threads during that period lamenting our decline against off spin bowling. We were so clueless against off spin during that period that it isn't surprising we lost to Lyon on day 5.

 

I stand by my statement that it wasn't a square turner, at max it was a like a typical day 4 Indian pitch. 

did you watch Mumbai Test between India and WI in 2011? if you have watched this matches, you will realize how suddenly a pitch can become square turner. This was a patta for first 3 odd days, WI scored over 500 in first innings and India close to 500.  Everything thought it will be a draw and then suddenly ball started turning square and WI got shot at 134 and India barely scraped through to the win on 5th day. WI missed a second spinner that day.

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/12675/scorecard/535999/India-vs-West-Indies-3rd-Test-west-indies-tour-of-india-2011-12/

[Cricketics]

3 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

How exactly Root ahead of Kohli?

 

Kohli 106 inn, 5268 runs, avg 53.75, 20 centuries

Root 114 matches, 5465 runs, avg 53.05, 13 centuries

 

Home: Kohli 63.5 Root 59.46, both with 10 centuries

Away Kohli 45.13 (10 centuries) Root 45.42 (3 centuries)

 

 

Kohli got ahead in this game. Like I said, Kohli will surpass all eventually but currently the best time is not to judge but it will be better to judge 12-15 months when India would have played in all three -Saf-Eng-Aus for the 2nd or more time with Kohli. 

[Cricketics]

12 minutes ago, New guy said:

Kohli has a better average than Root. Why does he need to do a little better in England specifically? Which country should Root do a little better in?

Not only England, he should just do better over all. Doing well in England will be just better for him but overal in all three places he should perform so that his average stays up. Thats all. 

[Trichromatic]

1 minute ago, Cricketics said:

Kohli got ahead in this game. Like I said, Kohli will surpass all eventually but currently the best time is not to judge but it will be better to judge 12-15 months when India would have played in all three -Saf-Eng-Aus for the 2nd or more time with Kohli. 

Even before this match, Kohli as batsman had already passed Root (not by average, but overall)

[rkt.india]

14 hours ago, sensible-indian said:

By day 4/5 it started turning a lot. 

 

Such things happen:

 

Mumbai 2016 was a nice bouncy flat track for 2 sessions on day 1 which is when england piled on. Then it started progressively turning a lot. 

 

Chennai 2013 though turned from ball one. 

 

Sydney 2015 (4th test) was a patta on first 3 days (no spin or seam) but turned big on day 4/5. Ashwin recorded 1/145 and 4/100 in 2 innings. In the second innings he took 4 out of 5 wickets..

 

 

Chennai was not a rank turner. pitch looked bad visible but it was very good for batting. Pattinson had run through our top order before Dhoni and BK came to rescue. 

[rkt.india]

5 minutes ago, Gollum said:

I watched that match alright. Pitch wasn't a square turner, Lyon bowled brilliantly and he proved to the world that he was a great spinner. It wasn't like Nagpur 2015 or Pune 2017, so definitely playable. It was more our choking, Lyon brilliance and weakness against off spin that decided the match, not the pitch. 

No spinner can do anything until there is a help in the pitch. There were a lot of footmarks and Lyon got big turn from there. 

[Cricketics]

Just now, rkt.india said:

No spinner can do anything until there is a help in the pitch. There were a lot of footmarks and Lyon got big turn from there. 

Sehwag bowled better than Ashwin and co in Australia.