zen Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 Was Kapil a consistent all-rounder or an impact all-rounder? Career summary vs. the strong side during his time: Records type all-round analysis [change type] View career summary [change view] Opposition team Australia or England or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or West Indies Ordered by default (ascending) Return to query menu Cleared query menu Career averages Span Mat Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St Ave Diff unfiltered 1978-1994 131 5248 163 31.05 8 434 9/83 29.64 23 64 0 1.40 Profile filtered 1978-1994 115 4584 129 30.15 7 385 9/83 29.96 22 60 0 0.18 Away Records type all-round analysis [change type] View career summary [change view] Opposition team Australia or England or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or West Indies Home or away away (home of opposition) Ordered by default (ascending) Return to query menu Cleared query menu Career averages Span Mat Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St Ave Diff unfiltered 1978-1994 131 5248 163 31.05 8 434 9/83 29.64 23 64 0 1.40 Profile filtered 1978-1994 59 2188 129 26.04 3 196 8/85 32.85 12 22 0 -6.80 Home Records type all-round analysis [change type] View career summary [change view] Opposition team Australia or England or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or West Indies Home or away home venue Ordered by default (ascending) Return to query menu Cleared query menu Career averages Span Mat Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St Ave Diff unfiltered 1978-1994 131 5248 163 31.05 8 434 9/83 29.64 23 64 0 1.40 Profile filtered 1978-1993 56 2396 126* 35.23 4 189 9/83 26.97 10 38 0 8.26 BrantFUGH and Ridgepi 1 1 Link to comment
Nikola Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 (edited) He had to bowl 20 - 25 overs in day and sometimes even more than that. As an all rounder he had alot work load as other trundlers didn't do their job. Stats sometime don't reveal many things. Edited September 9, 2018 by Nikola nevada, UrmiSinhaRay, JourneyMan and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment
zen Posted September 9, 2018 Author Share Posted September 9, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Nikola said: He had to bowl 20 - 25 overs in day and sometimes even more than that. As an all rounder he had alot work load as other trundlers did do their job. Stats sometime don't reveal many things. Against strong sides, he bowled 4,100 overs in 197 inns, which is around 21 overs per inning (not day) Career averages Span Mat Inns Overs Mdns Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10 unfiltered 1978-1994 131 227 4623.2 1060 12867 434 9/83 11/146 29.64 2.78 63.9 23 2 Profile filtered 1978-1994 115 197 4099.5 910 11538 385 9/83 11/146 29.96 2.81 63.8 22 2 PS for perspective, Ind bowling in the 5th test 1st inning BOWLING O M R W ECON WD NB JJ Bumrah 30 9 83 3 2.76 0 0 I Sharma 31 12 62 3 2.00 0 0 GH Vihari 1 0 1 0 1.00 0 0 Mohammed Shami 30 7 72 0 2.40 0 0 RA Jadeja 30 0 79 4 2.63 0 0 Edited September 9, 2018 by zen Link to comment
rtmohanlal Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) Kapil need to be evaluated based on the adversities he had to deal with in bowling and based on the position he batted w.r.t batting. for instance take this one data.In his first 21823 balls(almost similar to Botham's 21815) where he averaged 29.11,Kapil's support bowling unit's combined avg: was only 38.8.For Botham the respective value was only 31.53. See the big difference of 38.8 - 31.53 = 7.27. In other words when ever Kapil played a test till his first 21823 balls, he bowled along with basically 3 fellow bowlers in general(assuming the team combination is 6 batsmen + 4 bowlers in general for the sake of this situation) who avg:ed 38.8 each, where as for Botham it was only 31.53 !!!!!!! Another factor is work density. Botham bowled 21815 balls in 14 y,10 m & 19 d that is 5433 days. Kapil bowled 21823 balls in 11y, 3 m & 21 d that is 4128 days that is a difference of 1305 days or 31.61% Work density of Botham is 21815 balls/14.897 years =1464.389 balls/year. Work densiy of Kapil in first 21823 balls/11.308 years = 1929.873 balls/year. Means 1929.873-1464.389= 465.484.So every year Kapil had to bowl 465.484/1464.389 = 31.79% more the no: of balls Botham had to bowl till his first 21823 balls, which is a big difference. Edited September 10, 2018 by rtmohanlal Jimmy Cliff, mishra, velu and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment
Tattieboy Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 19 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said: Kapil need to be evaluated based on the adversities he had to deal with in bowling and based on the position he batted w.r.t batting. for instance take this one data.In his first 21823 balls(almost similar to Botham's 21815) where he averaged 29.11,Kapil's support bowling unit's combined avg: was only 38.8.For Botham the respective value was only 31.53. See the big difference of 38.8 - 31.53 = 7.27. In other words when ever Kapil played a test till his first 21823 balls, he bowled along with basically 3 fellow bowlers in general(assuming the team combination is 6 batsmen + 4 bowlers in general) who avg:ed 38.8 each, where as for Botham it was only 31.53 !!!!!!! Another factor is work density. Botham bowled 21815 balls in 14 y,10 m & 19 d that is 5433 days. Kapil bowled 21823 balls in 11y, 3 m & 21 d that is 4128 days that is a difference of 1305 days or 31.61% Work density of Botham is 21815 balls/14.897 years =1464.389 balls/year. Work densiy of Kapil in first 21823 balls/11.308 years = 1929.873 balls/year. Means 1929.873-1464.389= 465.484.So every year Kapil had to bowl 465.484/1464.389 = 31.79% more the no: of balls Botham had to bowl till his first 21823 balls, which is a big difference. Your work density of balls bowled per year are wrong Link to comment
Soorma_Bhopali Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 In 1970s and 80s , there were no weak teams like Zimbabwe or Bangaldesh to pad up the stats ..lot of top order batsmen used to average in mid-30s and late 30s . Having 45+ average was rare . In that context, his batting average of 29 was not too bad. nevada, Ridgepi and UrmiSinhaRay 2 1 Link to comment
rtmohanlal Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 45 minutes ago, Tattieboy said: Your work density of balls bowled per year are wrong where did i go wrong??? UrmiSinhaRay 1 Link to comment
Tattieboy Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 33 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said: where did i go wrong??? You are only quoting test balls bowled not actual total balls bowled by each in a year. Link to comment
rtmohanlal Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, Tattieboy said: You are only quoting test balls bowled not actual total balls bowled by each in a year. that is the basic data. you shall conclude what ever based on that UrmiSinhaRay, The Dark Horse and BrantFUGH 1 1 1 Link to comment
zen Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 Kapil was one of the great ARs. But wanted him to fulfil is full potential. He was good enough to avg 40+ with the bat UrmiSinhaRay and BrantFUGH 1 1 Link to comment
Straight Drive Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) I would say Kapil Dev was the best cricketer India has ever produced from those i have watched across decades (Vishy, Sunny, Sachin, Dravid, Kohli). (1).No cricketer ever has one gone to WI in 1982/83 and dominated that worlds best pace attack in history of test cricket like the ATG all-rounder Kapil Dev..... without helmet. Sunny and Mohinder Amarnath have scored a ton against this pace quartet in same series, but no all-rounder has ever batted as well against those bowlers. His 100* against the bowling lineup of Andy Roberts, Malcolm Marshall, Joel Garner and Michael Holding. He did that in 95 balls. I doubt anyone in world cricket has scored at more than run a ball against the best pace attack in history of cricket at their home grounds. What was more significant that it ensured India could draw the test.Mohinder Amarnath too scored a ton in that second innings. (2.)His 9 wickets for 90 odd runs in an innings against WI remains the best pace bowling innings performance i have ever seen on the flat Ahmedabad wicket. I doubt any Indian pace bowler has ever taken a 9 wicket haul in a test innings. Grenidge, Gomes, Richards, Lloyd were some of the main wickets he took. Only Anil Kumble has picked 10 fer in innings against Pakistan at Kotla which probably everyone is aware, but for an Indian pacer Kapils 9 fer remains an unbroken record till date. (3)His 175 in knockout match when we were 17/5 against Zimbabwe was fascinating. That counter attacking innings was something which Viv Richards would have been very happy. Without that innings, the India would not have made the WC finals. (4) His catch to dismiss Viv Richards in the final was a wonderful running catch. That wicket of Viv had a lot of say in our win. I could go on an on about the impact player that Kapil paaji was but these are the top 4 efforts i remember from watching him play. iirc he played 62 tests without a break, the rested for one test and then again played 63 tests without any break. No other all-rounder in history of this game was as fit as Kapil Dev. Gotta remember he did most of the bowling for India as well with his medium pace. No wonder he is a ATG all-rounder. Edited January 1, 2019 by Straight Drive putrevus and express bowling 2 Link to comment
Rightarmfast Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) On 9/10/2018 at 10:52 AM, rtmohanlal said: Kapil need to be evaluated based on the adversities he had to deal with in bowling and based on the position he batted w.r.t batting. for instance take this one data.In his first 21823 balls(almost similar to Botham's 21815) where he averaged 29.11,Kapil's support bowling unit's combined avg: was only 38.8.For Botham the respective value was only 31.53. See the big difference of 38.8 - 31.53 = 7.27. In other words when ever Kapil played a test till his first 21823 balls, he bowled along with basically 3 fellow bowlers in general(assuming the team combination is 6 batsmen + 4 bowlers in general for the sake of this situation) who avg:ed 38.8 each, where as for Botham it was only 31.53 !!!!!!! Another factor is work density. Botham bowled 21815 balls in 14 y,10 m & 19 d that is 5433 days. Kapil bowled 21823 balls in 11y, 3 m & 21 d that is 4128 days that is a difference of 1305 days or 31.61% Work density of Botham is 21815 balls/14.897 years =1464.389 balls/year. Work densiy of Kapil in first 21823 balls/11.308 years = 1929.873 balls/year. Means 1929.873-1464.389= 465.484.So every year Kapil had to bowl 465.484/1464.389 = 31.79% more the no: of balls Botham had to bowl till his first 21823 balls, which is a big difference. Can you give an analysis viz a viz Imran Khan? Edited January 1, 2019 by Rightarmfast BrantFUGH 1 Link to comment
velu Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 On 9/10/2018 at 10:52 AM, rtmohanlal said: Kapil need to be evaluated based on the adversities he had to deal with in bowling and based on the position he batted w.r.t batting. for instance take this one data.In his first 21823 balls(almost similar to Botham's 21815) where he averaged 29.11,Kapil's support bowling unit's combined avg: was only 38.8.For Botham the respective value was only 31.53. See the big difference of 38.8 - 31.53 = 7.27. In other words when ever Kapil played a test till his first 21823 balls, he bowled along with basically 3 fellow bowlers in general(assuming the team combination is 6 batsmen + 4 bowlers in general for the sake of this situation) who avg:ed 38.8 each, where as for Botham it was only 31.53 !!!!!!! Another factor is work density. Botham bowled 21815 balls in 14 y,10 m & 19 d that is 5433 days. Kapil bowled 21823 balls in 11y, 3 m & 21 d that is 4128 days that is a difference of 1305 days or 31.61% Work density of Botham is 21815 balls/14.897 years =1464.389 balls/year. Work densiy of Kapil in first 21823 balls/11.308 years = 1929.873 balls/year. Means 1929.873-1464.389= 465.484.So every year Kapil had to bowl 465.484/1464.389 = 31.79% more the no: of balls Botham had to bowl till his first 21823 balls, which is a big difference. chetta .. i am 99.98% sure that you have got plenty of time to burn JourneyMan 1 Link to comment
neel roy Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 4 hours ago, velu said: chetta .. i am 99.98% sure that you have got plenty of time to burn Appreciate the level of analysis.. these type of analysis and stats are rare to find even in wisden velu and nevada 2 Link to comment
nevada Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 On 9/10/2018 at 2:34 AM, Nikola said: He had to bowl 20 - 25 overs in day and sometimes even more than that. As an all rounder he had alot work load as other trundlers didn't do their job. Stats sometime don't reveal many things. He used to bowl accurately too, creating pressure which other bowlers reaped the benefit of. Another fact which stats don't reveal. BrantFUGH and Ridgepi 1 1 Link to comment
rtmohanlal Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Rightarmfast said: Can you give an analysis viz a viz Imran Khan? TRCTBI - total runs conceded,the bowler included TWTTBI - total wickets taken,the bowler included RCBTB - runs conceeded by the bowler WTBTB - wickets taken by the bowler TRCTBE - total runs conceded,the bowler excluded (support bowling strength) TWTTBE - total wickets taken,the bowler excluded (support bowling strength) bowler TRCTBI TWTTBI avg: RCBTB WTBTB avg: TRCTBE TWTTBE avg: Imran 39354 1297 30.34 8258 362 22.81 31096 935 33.26 //full career stats of Imran kapil 61403 1730 35.49 12867 434 29.64 48536 1296 37.45 //full career stats of Kapil kapil 46175 1292 35.74 10222 354 28.87 35953 938 38.33 //till 20 nov 89 where Kapil bowled first 21000 //balls & avg:ed 28.87 Above is the data . Here too , though not as much a difference when compared to that of Botham, the difference is still 5.07 in his first 21000 balls against Kapil .From that point on wards till his career end, with the arrival of Kumble,Srinath etc to assist him he got better support so that his career end bowl support avg: gets increased to 37.45 w.r.t work density , there is no need to even go for it because Imran bowled his 19500+ balls in long 21 years where as Kapil bowled his 27740 balls in just 15 y & 5 m. Edited January 1, 2019 by rtmohanlal Rightarmfast 1 Link to comment
rtmohanlal Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 6 hours ago, velu said: chetta .. i am 99.98% sure that you have got plenty of time to burn 2 hours ago, neel roy said: Appreciate the level of analysis.. these type of analysis and stats are rare to find even in wisden this is simple data filtration mates . We can derive these stats from cricinfo itself. Only small basic calculations remained to be done.That's all. Link to comment
Temujin Khaghan Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 On 9/10/2018 at 10:52 AM, rtmohanlal said: Kapil need to be evaluated based on the adversities he had to deal with in bowling and based on the position he batted w.r.t batting. for instance take this one data.In his first 21823 balls(almost similar to Botham's 21815) where he averaged 29.11,Kapil's support bowling unit's combined avg: was only 38.8.For Botham the respective value was only 31.53. See the big difference of 38.8 - 31.53 = 7.27. In other words when ever Kapil played a test till his first 21823 balls, he bowled along with basically 3 fellow bowlers in general(assuming the team combination is 6 batsmen + 4 bowlers in general for the sake of this situation) who avg:ed 38.8 each, where as for Botham it was only 31.53 !!!!!!! Another factor is work density. Botham bowled 21815 balls in 14 y,10 m & 19 d that is 5433 days. Kapil bowled 21823 balls in 11y, 3 m & 21 d that is 4128 days that is a difference of 1305 days or 31.61% Work density of Botham is 21815 balls/14.897 years =1464.389 balls/year. Work densiy of Kapil in first 21823 balls/11.308 years = 1929.873 balls/year. Means 1929.873-1464.389= 465.484.So every year Kapil had to bowl 465.484/1464.389 = 31.79% more the no: of balls Botham had to bowl till his first 21823 balls, which is a big difference. meanwhile shahid afridi bowling donkey balls!!! Link to comment
Temujin Khaghan Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Rightarmfast said: Can you give an analysis viz a viz Imran Khan? also he will give you his bank account details, first pay him something before giving such homework... Edited January 1, 2019 by Temujin Khaghan Link to comment
rtmohanlal Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Temujin Khaghan said: also he will give you his bank account details, first pay him something before giving such homework... can't simply understand what's the problem here.... a bit confused Link to comment
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