Hinduphobic Bollywood

[Global.Baba]

6 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

As i said, your type of insecure hindus need to learn from the Japanese on how to adapt to a newer, superior paradigm, instead of trying to turn the clock back because it wasn't invented by someone you like. When Japan found its Bushido custom- thousand+ years old, well and truly inferior to western humanism, they chucked that part of their culture out. Time for you to make the same realization and chuck the rotten parts of hinduism (such as casteism) out completely, instead of making excuses.

 

 

Wow genius!!! Amazing that you figured out a solution in a few hours within a debate.

 

Wonder how people are not able to able to figure this out yet?

 

Let me guess Evil Brahmins blocking your complex message.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Muloghonto]

Just now, Global.Baba said:

Wow genius!!! Amazing that you figured out a solution in a few hours within a debate.

 

Wonder how people are not able to able to figure this out yet?

 

Let me guess Evil Brahmins blocking your complex message.

Or people like you wasting time,like on this thread, saying that it is no longer a real issue, because their egos are hurt.

 

[someone]

5 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

And you can't find me ANY single program on national TV in India where hinduism is insulted by common people in debate with a hindu Sadhu. Already plenty of examples of such cited. It means a lot more for freedom of expression when its broadcast on national prime-time TV in a debate, than a random politician making statements and then excuses. They have plenty of such movies and TV shows. Just because you dont like her conclusions doesn't make it biassed. 

Your own solutions ? Pffft. for thousands of years it has plagued India. Time to bring it more to focus and work to rid this evil. Doesn't matter if its an Indian person or a Japanese person or an alien who ends casteism - it has to go and it will be a victory for people when such nonsense is removed from society. 

You have some serious chip on your shoulder if you think people's suffering of religious injustices should not be commented on by 'outsiders'. This is classic example of how nationalism (pride in actions you played no part in) is such an evil concept and Indians are sadly lacking PATRIOTISM (Doing whats best for the people of the nation

 

 

You still cant give me any names. Here we have Karunanidhi, Owasis abusing Hindu gods and getting away freely. They arent some random politicians. But try abusing other religions and there will be huge consequences. Dont reply back till you give me equalivant cases of the west politicians.

 

You mentioned “outsiders” commenting on religious injustice, and that my whole point. Where is the Hindu or African critique of the West and Christinity? The west simply dont give the space mainstream and really no takers for it in the west. Instead they have completely whitewashed their history , and thus people like yourself have to audacity to  call them tolerant when their entire history is filled with atrocities and oppression. And today they are exploiting our weak people and converting them.

 

Now compare that to India, here we are in awe of the western view of us, and the only country in the world whose studies is controlled by others, the west. Thus, that results in one sided and distortions versions of texts and history. So now Islamic tyrants are heros, and bollywood foolishly continue to paint such images while ignoring their brutal genocides.

Edited October 29, 2018 by someone

[Muloghonto]

2 hours ago, someone said:

You still cant give me any names. Here we have Karunanidhi, Owasis abusing Hindu gods and getting away freely. They arent some random politicians. But try abusing other religions and there will be huge consequences. Dont reply back till you give me equalivant cases of the west politicians.

Don't reply back till you can give me examples of people on national TV insulting hinduism like Steven Fry or Richard Dawkins/Christopher Hitchens do here in the west. 

 

2 hours ago, someone said:

 

You mentioned “outsiders” commenting on religious injustice, and that my whole point. Where is the Hindu or African critique of the West and Christinity? The west simply dont give the space mainstream and really no takers for it in the west. Instead they have completely whitewashed their history , and thus people like yourself have to audacity to  call them tolerant when their entire history is filled with atrocities and oppression. And today they are exploiting our weak people and converting them.

The west has far more attention on its attrocities in the past than any other culture does to its own. Plenty of examples exist in their film and television show media. And it is a fact that they are the most tolerant culture NOW. 

2 hours ago, someone said:

 

Now compare that to India, here we are in awe of the western view of us, and the only country in the world whose studies is controlled by others, the west.

It isn't. India is the only country where it pooh-poohs academia because of its western influences. Japanese history is done in identical fashion as Indian history and no one bats an eyelash at the truth. 

2 hours ago, someone said:

Thus, that results in one sided and distortions versions of texts and history. So now Islamic tyrants are heros, and bollywood foolishly continue to paint such images while ignoring their brutal genocides.

Your belief that history is distorted by the west is cute, but a common false trope created by hinduvta that is too embarassed about its own history.

[someone]

 

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

Don't reply back till you can give me examples of people on national TV insulting hinduism like Steven Fry or Richard Dawkins/Christopher Hitchens do here in the west. 

 

The west has far more attention on its attrocities in the past than any other culture does to its own. Plenty of examples exist in their film and television show media. And it is a fact that they are the most tolerant culture NOW. 

It isn't. India is the only country where it pooh-poohs academia because of its western influences. Japanese history is done in identical fashion as Indian history and no one bats an eyelash at the truth. 

Your belief that history is distorted by the west is cute, but a common false trope created by hinduvta that is too embarassed about its own history.

So they whitewash history and you avoid my questions. You still can”t give me names any politicians getting away abusing other religions. Now India is full of hinduphobia, not just politicians, there are likes of John Dayal, Kacha Ilaiah who sprew hatred. Bollywood making Islamic tyrants as heros. Try making Hitler a hero in Hollywood.

 

Next you are trapped in your words. On one hand, you have the burden of past,  full of guilt for the historical crimes of India. Yet, you foolishly want to abbsolve the white man crimes. They just whitewash history, while Africa, South Asia are still paying the price for their atrocities and genocides. Then, again you have the audacity to call them tolerant while conviently ignorning their war crimes, and exploitation and converting of the weaker today.

 

There isnt any takers for Africa or Hindu critique of west and its religion. Outsiders dont get mainstream space to critique them and that shows the double standard. A highly colonized mind like yourself are obviously insecure about your own culture & history, while in awe of the west. Yet you dont know some truths like the doctrine of Christian discovery.

 

You mention about Japan, and of course they are a good example. They have their own narrative and proud of their civilization. They dont see themselves as westerners nor have any inferiority complex. We ought to have an similar Indian narrative based on our ancient civilisations, dharmic religions, and mutual respect. India is not just about developing, but reclaiming . For that you need to decolonize minds and understand actual history and build an indian prospective.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2018 by someone

[Muloghonto]

9 hours ago, someone said:

 

So they whitewash history and you avoid my questions.

1. Didn't avoid any questions

2. THey dont whitewash their history. There are far more courses in history of the abuse faced by the native people at the hands of European conquerors here, than courses on Dalit oppression by Hindus in Indian academia. I know this, because i hold a minor degree in History. 

9 hours ago, someone said:

You still can”t give me names any politicians getting away abusing other religions.

And you still can't give me a single instance of AAM ADMI on national TV dissing hinduism like they have with X-tianity here. 

9 hours ago, someone said:

Now India is full of hinduphobia, not just politicians, there are likes of John Dayal, Kacha Ilaiah who sprew hatred. Bollywood making Islamic tyrants as heros. Try making Hitler a hero in Hollywood.

I reject your notion of Hindu phobia, as it is based on glossing over the shortcommings of Hinduism and deflecting attention. 

9 hours ago, someone said:

 

Next you are trapped in your words. On one hand, you have the burden of past,  full of guilt for the historical crimes of India. Yet, you foolishly want to abbsolve the white man crimes.

I don't and your analogy does not work, since it is a red herring argument. No one is absolving the HISTORY of white men. I am simply saying that TODAY'S WHITE MEN are way, way more tolerant and liberal than TODAY's Hindus/Indians. 

9 hours ago, someone said:

They just whitewash history, while Africa, South Asia are still paying the price for their atrocities and genocides. Then, again you have the audacity to call them tolerant while conviently ignorning their war crimes, and exploitation and converting of the weaker today.

Does not change the fact that western society TODAY is far more tolerant and open to everything- including plight of the minorities- than any other society on the planet. 

9 hours ago, someone said:

There isnt any takers for Africa or Hindu critique of west and its religion.

There isn't, because Hindus by and large lack scholarship in anthropology/history to make such a case. Your academia is puny and weak in quality and quantity. Just that simple. No one takes Chilean scholarship on these topics seriously for the same reason or the Orthodox scholarship on the west either, for the same reason. 

9 hours ago, someone said:

Outsiders dont get mainstream space to critique them and that shows the double standard. A highly colonized mind like yourself are obviously insecure about your own culture & history, while in awe of the west. Yet you dont know some truths like the doctrine of Christian discovery.

I have nothing to be insecure about, since i am competely okay with calling out the BS that flies in my own culture. You on the other hand, are the insecure one, which is why you are doing everything in your power to deflect from the shortcommings of Hinduism. 

9 hours ago, someone said:

 

You mention about Japan, and of course they are a good example. They have their own narrative and proud of their civilization. They dont see themselves as westerners nor have any inferiority complex. We ought to have an similar Indian narrative based on our ancient civilisations, dharmic religions, and mutual respect. India is not just about developing, but reclaiming . For that you need to decolonize minds and understand actual history and build an indian prospective.

Yet Japan adopted western music, western education, western economic system and does not whine about 'western-centric history of Japan'. 

 

Japan trashed their old-school morality based Bushido code in favor of western universalism. Because it was inferior. Follow Japan's lead and trash the caste system once and for all, instead of making excuses for it or deflecting.

 

As i said, Japan is a good example on what PATRIOTISM is and its benefits, while Hinduvta is a good example of what NATIONALISM is and its shortcommings. 

 

[Global.Baba]

17 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

1. Didn't avoid any questions

2. THey dont whitewash their history. 

TODAY'S WHITE MEN are way, way more tolerant and liberal than TODAY's Hindus/Indians. 

 

 

Also slavery is the worst thing ever that happened to humanity. Caste system and caste based discrimination doesn’t even come remotely close.

 

Millions of black people have been stripped of their culture,identity and essence and totally displaced. Yeah white guilt etc sound good on paper or the rare Hollywood movie showing the crimes. While holocaust and Hitler as evil it was have become a benchmark for the worst human atrocities  ever, sorry to say but it doesn’t even come close to slavery. Not underplaying the holocaust but just speaking apples to apples.

 

Stop being a white apologist. Affirmative action doesn’t even come close to the reservations and other placeholders for the backward castes  in India.

 

 

 

 

[Muloghonto]

4 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

 

 

Also slavery is the worst thing ever that happened to humanity. Caste system and caste based discrimination doesn’t even come remotely close.

Yep, but caste system still exists. White people TODAY have stopped enslaving people. Stop with your white-washing faults in Hinduism. 
You can say 'wrong' all you like, but it doesn't make you correct. 

Quote

 

Millions of black people have been stripped of their culture,identity and essence and totally displaced. Yeah white guilt etc sound good on paper or the rare Hollywood movie showing the crimes. While holocaust and Hitler as evil it was have become a benchmark for the worst human atrocities  ever, sorry to say but it doesn’t even come close to slavery. Not underplaying the holocaust but just speaking apples to apples.

Yep. In. The. Past. Today's western world has moved to a much, much better place. Which makes today's western world a much better society than India. Hinduism is slow as molasses when it comes to getting rid of its own ill-begotten ideas like casteism. 

Quote

Stop being a white apologist. Affirmative action doesn’t even come close to the reservations and other placeholders for the backward castes  in India.

I am not being a white apologist when i simply underline the fact that today, the free-est societies and the societies with most rights and privilege accorded to minorities are in the west. 
Stop being a hindu-white-washer and own up to the ills that plague Hinduism today instead of being insecure about it to bring in other stuff in 'whatabout-ism' manner.

 

The 'Saudi Arabia' of the west , with most pro-white policies, discrimination, etc. is the USA. Which is still WAY BETTER than India in all metrics, including discrimination. That alone should tell you how far the western world has come. Compared to India/Hindu culture, low-key nations like Finland, Switzerland, Iceland- these are like PARADISE.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Muloghonto

[Mariyam]

On 10/27/2018 at 12:02 PM, ravishingravi said:

Lets be honest. If you had to offend a religion and get away with it, which one would choose. 

Zoroastrianism?

Even Jainism maybe.

[ravishingravi]

On 10/30/2018 at 10:52 AM, Mariyam said:

Zoroastrianism?

Even Jainism maybe.

Yes. Good choices. Although Zoroastrianism doesn’t have very clear belief system. It is a little fluid. 

 

And offending Jainism. I think they punish themselves enough to be bothered by someone else’s offence. 

[Yoda-esque]

On 10/31/2018 at 8:40 AM, ravishingravi said:

Yes. Good choices. Although Zoroastrianism doesn’t have very clear belief system. It is a little fluid. 

 

And offending Jainism. I think they punish themselves enough to be bothered by someone else’s offence. 

LOL

[Muloghonto]

On 10/31/2018 at 5:40 AM, ravishingravi said:

Yes. Good choices. Although Zoroastrianism doesn’t have very clear belief system. It is a little fluid. 

 

And offending Jainism. I think they punish themselves enough to be bothered by someone else’s offence. 

Hands down, the alltime-champion of the 'toughest religion to follow day in and day out' award goes to the Jains. Like, its the Bradman of this competition.

[Global.Baba]

On 10/30/2018 at 10:52 AM, Mariyam said:

Zoroastrianism?

Even Jainism maybe.

Apart from the chaman jhinga or bawa stereotype tell me how offensive has Bollywood been to Parsis. Jains lol are not even considered relevant enough or an independent religion enough to be made fun off.

 

However a guy dressed as Lord Shiva running around scared etc or parodies of Ramayana Mahabharata have been the norm in Bollywood.

 

Trust me when some of them are done in good taste there is not a problem. Hell some of them done in poor taste too have been accepted but the limits keep getting tested.

 

Now apply the same to Abrahamic religions. Christianity to be honest gets made fun off in the west but in a context of India we are a nation that banned Da Vinci code where there wasn’t even anything offensive whatsoever.

 

I think twice to even type something offensive about some religions on an obscure forum online when it comes to some of these religions. 

 

You are bright enough to get the point.

[Muloghonto]

2 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

Apart from the chaman jhinga or bawa stereotype tell me how offensive has Bollywood been to Parsis. Jains lol are not even considered relevant enough or an independent religion enough to be made fun off.

They definitely consider themselves a different religion and no-matter how much Hindu superiorists try to put an umbrella of ownership over Indic religions, it does not change the fact that Jains are an older religion on the basis of actual textual evidence and are different from Hinduism. They may be small in numbers, but they are not Hindus. They are not made fun of, because its not very easy or interesting to make fun of people who are too phobic to hurt any form of life. 

2 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

 

Now apply the same to Abrahamic religions. Christianity to be honest gets made fun off in the west but in a context of India we are a nation that banned Da Vinci code where there wasn’t even anything offensive whatsoever.

Yes, and in the west we don't see a hindu terrorist either, except for one solitary mention in Quantico, a nothing of a show on Netflix.  Every soceity is far more comfortable making fun of its mainstream than its fringe minorities when there isn't any open racism/bigotry being sponsored

 

[coffee_rules]

Even according to condescending Western Indologists, age of Rigveda i around 1500 BC. Mahaveer Jain era is 600 BC. But, yes jainism came before Hinduism. All four religions are under the tree of Vedic Sanathana Dharma offshoots - Buddhism, jainism, Hindus and Sikhs. The constitution says that - a common law for all these religions and one for Muslims as per their personal family laws.

Edited November 2, 2018 by coffee_rules

[Muloghonto]

8 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Even according to condescending Western Indologists, age of Rigveda i around 1500 BC. Mahaveer Jain era is 600 BC. But, yes jainism came before Hinduism.

Do you understand the meaning of WRITTEN records ? Jains and Buddhists have older written records than Hinduism does. Also, Jainism & Buddhism are far closer to their original self than Hinduism is to what its counterpart was 2500 years ago. 

8 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

All four religions are under the tree of Vedic Sanathana Dharma offshoots - Buddhism, jainism, Hindus and Sikhs. The constitution says that - a common law for all these religions and one for Muslims as per their personal family laws.

Yes, just like Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all under the umbrella of Abrahamic faiths. Does not make them the same religion, same goes for hinduvta superiorists trying to usurp Jainism or Buddhism. They are not the same religions.

[coffee_rules]

15 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Do you understand the meaning of WRITTEN records ? Jains and Buddhists have older written records than Hinduism does. Also, Jainism & Buddhism are far closer to their original self than Hinduism is to what its counterpart was 2500 years ago. 

Yes, just like Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all under the umbrella of Abrahamic faiths. Does not make them the same religion, same goes for hinduvta superiorists trying to usurp Jainism or Buddhism. They are not the same religions.

Vedanta has an oral tradition, that is nullified by brainwashed Western Indologists. Generations would pass on oral history (history is not Itihasa, it is a record of divinity in our tradition) and that is what is believed. Sanskrit had many works written in many scripts , but before the tradition was passed orally. Even now, the Gayathri manthra is not supposed to be written, the father whispers it in his son's ear during upanayana, to honor this tradition. Dont learn about vedanta from western Indologists, they have a very monolithic view of the world , that we everything needs to be black/white and uniform. Vendata believed in diversity where all paths were respected (not tolerated). Jainism, Buddhism were all followed with equal respect and so did Advaita. We have Jain kings in the south who built great Shiva temples (Halebidu). So, they are not different religions, but branches of  a big tree. Advaita/Dvaita were popular and they didn't go around killing Jains/Budhhists like Abrahamic religions have crusades. Don't trumpet what you learnt in a minor degree of History from brainwashed Western non-scholars. 

[Alam_dar]

28 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Vedanta has an oral tradition, that is nullified by brainwashed Western Indologists. Generations would pass on oral history (history is not Itihasa, it is a record of divinity in our tradition) and that is what is believed. Sanskrit had many works written in many scripts , but before the tradition was passed orally. Even now, the Gayathri manthra is not supposed to be written, the father whispers it in his son's ear during upanayana, to honor this tradition. Dont learn about vedanta from western Indologists, they have a very monolithic view of the world , that we everything needs to be black/white and uniform. Vendata believed in diversity where all paths were respected (not tolerated). Jainism, Buddhism were all followed with equal respect and so did Advaita. We have Jain kings in the south who built great Shiva temples (Halebidu). So, they are not different religions, but branches of  a big tree. Advaita/Dvaita were popular and they didn't go around killing Jains/Budhhists like Abrahamic religions have crusades. Don't trumpet what you learnt in a minor degree of History from brainwashed Western non-scholars. 

India got the "culture of Tolerance and extreme Respect" towards the other religions. But this does not mean that Buddhism is same religion as Hinduism. 

 

Even today we see this extreme tolerance and respect in Indian culture at many places, mostly in south where even Muslims are invited to Mandir to offer their prayers during flood period. Or where mosque and mandirs are at the same place. Even Muslims in south are very tolerant and they let Hindus pray in their mosques. 

 

Buddhism is actually an Atheist/Agnostic ideology. Siddhartha took no teachings of the Hindu Gods or religious books, but he mediated, where he thought a lot and then derived his teachings on the bases of humanity, kindness and justice. He never gave his teachings the name of Revelation of any Divine personality, but always said that those teachings were from him and based upon human Rationale and thinking. 

 

Siddhartha and later coming Buddhists were totally against the caste system. 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

36 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

India got the "culture of Tolerance and extreme Respect" towards the other religions. But this does not mean that Buddhism is same religion as Hinduism. 

 

Even today we see this extreme tolerance and respect in Indian culture at many places, mostly in south where even Muslims are invited to Mandir to offer their prayers during flood period. Or where mosque and mandirs are at the same place. Even Muslims in south are very tolerant and they let Hindus pray in their mosques. 

 

Buddhism is actually an Atheist/Agnostic ideology. Siddhartha took no teachings of the Hindu Gods or religious books, but he mediated, where he thought a lot and then derived his teachings on the bases of humanity, kindness and justice. He never gave his teachings the name of Revelation of any Divine personality, but always said that those teachings were from him and based upon human Rationale and thinking. 

 

Siddhartha and later coming Buddhists were totally against the caste system. 

 

 

Buddha didn't invent a drastic view of Dharma. His teachings are influenced by upanishads and even his meditation experiences were not original ideas. He learnt it from rishis and definitely improvised. Since you guys believe white indologists, here's one for your ilk:

 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

It started with Vedas, vedic practices then started the smritis, puranas, etc. The other side which also believed in other ideas, were against the jaathi system that were being followed, preached what was in the original upanishads  and practiced and improvised them. It was nothing path breaking as it is made out to be , by the white egalitarian view. There are buddhist temples where Indra, Saraswati is worshipped. Buddha himself has proclaimed himself to be an avatar of rama. So, spare your thoughts about a black and white view of abhramic religion view about other Vedanta based views. Followers of Ashoka who wanted to popularize Buddhism have gone ahread and massacred people in the name of religion. So, don't paint Buddhism as something totally different from Vedic paths. Advaitha that is followed now mostly, and Shiavism are all part of Hinduism (a modern term invented by colonialists)