Zaheer khan : Their is a concern with Bhuvi's rhythm & follow through , it can be lack of game time or niggle

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

I don't know why Ishwar Pandey was totally ignored.

 

6'3" guy who got bounce but was a genuine outswing bowler too.  He was selected for the I dian squad around the same time as Bhuvi, but never ever played for India.

 

Now we are seeing the same with Rajpoot.  

 

We seem to have an aversion towards tall bouncy pacers unless his name is Ishant.  Even Aniket C never got a single game.

 

 

It is unfortunate that the selectors are applying same selection metrics for bowlers as they are for batsmen.  Batsmen force their way into the national team by putting up consistent big FC numbers.  Fast bowlers can't be expected to do that, because bowlers hunt in pairs, and conditions matter a LOT, especially for pace bowlers.  Just because Shardul put up top notch FC numbers in 2016 or whatever, doesn't necessarily mean he deserves an extended run ahead of other candidates with better promise and potential. 

 

We need more pace bowlers in the selection committee.

[express bowling]

22 minutes ago, sandeep said:

.  Just because Shardul put up top notch FC numbers in 2016 or whatever, doesn't necessarily mean he deserves an extended run ahead of other candidates with better promise and potential. 

 

 

And it is not just Shardul.  Just look at the illustrous line-up we have assembled in ODIs regarding natural bounce and height.  Kaul, Chahar, Shardul  and even Shami, Bhuvi and Umesh.

 

Before Khaleel came,  our ODI team had only Bumrah who gets natural bounce.

 

I don't know how our selectors and TM were promoting such sameness to our ODI pace attack.  

[Vilander]

8 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Umesh- dimag se paidal

[Vilander]

28 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

I don't know why Ishwar Pandey was totally ignored.

 

6'3" guy who got bounce but was a genuine outswing bowler too.  He was selected for the Indian squad around the same time as Bhuvi, but never ever played for India.

 

Now we are seeing the same with Rajpoot.  

 

We seem to have an aversion towards tall bouncy pacers unless his name is Ishant.  Even Aniket C never got a single game.

 

 

top post.

 

An other guy who was ruined was Pankaj singh but in tests.  only one tall bowler allowed. 

[UnknownGenius]

He seems to have lost his death bowling skills. Still a handy bowler with the new ball. india would be best served to use him for 7-8 overs upfront and two in the middle. For that though, they need to find another death bowler to complement Bumrah

[putrevus]

Zak should be drafted as bowling coach for this team.

[rkt.india]

13 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

I don't know why Ishwar Pandey was totally ignored.

 

6'3" guy who got bounce but was a genuine outswing bowler too.  He was selected for the Indian squad around the same time as Bhuvi, but never ever played for India.

 

Now we are seeing the same with Rajpoot.  

 

We seem to have an aversion towards tall bouncy pacers unless his name is Ishant.  Even Aniket C never got a single game.

 

 

pandey was selected when Mohit sharma was selected but his lack of pace went against him too.

Edited October 31, 2018 by rkt.india

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

Actually, from what I remember, he was quite incisive with the new ball early in his career, and a bit toothless for the rest of the game. 

 

But it doesn't matter. Past is history, and standards in Indian cricket and pace bowling have happily moved higher.  Bhuvi needs to take regular wickets with the new ball if he wants to be de facto first choice starter in the ODI XI.  

incisive only in the first series against Pak.  By second series that was played against Aus, he was toohtless and then Shami came in the same series and made an impact immediately.

[mancalledsting]

he has not been right since the IPL- need this guy back in form

[rtmohanlal]

fit or unfit , a bowler avg:ing 40 after playing  a considerable sample size  in any  format needs to be  used sparely only, preferably  in dead rubbers or in most suitable conditions or against lower ranked opponents , if not  fully dropped. 

[mancalledsting]

people need to stop looking at numbers as be all and end all because using numbers greatest odi batting lineup of all time looks like this:

 

amla

rohit

kohli 

bairstow 

dhoni 

buttler 

[rkt.india]

26 minutes ago, mancalledsting said:

people need to stop looking at numbers as be all and end all because using numbers greatest odi batting lineup of all time looks like this:

 

amla

rohit

kohli 

bairstow 

dhoni 

buttler 

For sure, Baistow and Butler are two of the best ODI batsman England have produced in their history but they have not played enough yet especially Bairstow.  For sure butler the way he is batting will be a great contender for ODI world Xi in future. but we have ABDV who was better then Bairstow for a longer period.  Dhoni will certainly make any World ODI XI.

[express bowling]

39 minutes ago, mancalledsting said:

people need to stop looking at numbers as be all 

 

Good numbers over a shorter time can be misleading if the opposition / playing conditions are easy.

 

But bad numbers over a long time can never be a good sign ... especially in cases where the shorter term figures are bad too, meaning not much improvement recently.

[gakgupta]

On 10/30/2018 at 11:45 AM, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Zaheer khan- 

If its a niggle - rest him 

If its lack of game time- play him max games

Follow through isnt same

 

Team mngmt needs to see into it

 

Dude.....

Zaheer has to be with the team...

He knows more about pace bowling than any other guy in India...

Even Ajay Jadeja was saying the same

[Moochad]

Now a concern? 

 

He is a passenger in the team for sure for a long time now. Doesn't take wickets, doesn't keep the oppositon from scoring, isn't an ODI bat, middle of the road fielder. 

 

No team carries a bowler as a specialist for 3-4 overs out of 100...

[zen]

At the moment, I see Bhuvi primarily as a T20 bowler  .... Play Bhuvi till the end of ODIs in Aus (or even NZ)  .... By then he could rule himself out of consideration .... Sink or Swim  .... In the KOs, we are likely to play SENA teams, who would not have a hard time playing Bhuvi, who is not picking wkts up in his first spell  

 

Ind has the best chance of making it to the SF from subcon teams. But if the middle order struggles vs strong sides (a likely scenario) and with guys like Bhuvi bowling (as seen from his recent stats) , 2019 could be the first WC tourney since 1975 to not feature a team from subcon in the SFs

 

 

PS Subcon teams in SFs:

 

1979 - Pak

1983 - Ind and Pak

1987 - Ind and Pak

1992 - Pak 

1996 - SL and Ind

1999 - Pak 

2003 - Ind and SL

2007 - SL

2011 - Ind, SL and Pak

2015 - Ind

2019 - ? .... SENA, WI (dark horse)

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by zen

[mancalledsting]

14 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Good numbers over a shorter time can be misleading if the opposition / playing conditions are easy.

 

But bad numbers over a long time can never be a good sign ... especially in cases where the shorter term figures are bad too, meaning not much improvement recently.

my point also relates to how useful the stat of an average in ODI bowling is - Bhuvi was only bowler in CT2017 final who didn't get carted around, key performer in CT2013 success, and was very good in last ODI series vs South Africa, NZ and Australia. So good in fact that Steve Smith said Bhuvi is one of best death bowlers around- just last year. He's been gun on flat tracks in IPL too. 

 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/australia-in-india/jasprit-bumrah-bhuvneshwar-kumar-are-best-death-bowlers-around-steve-smith/articleshow/60824329.cms

 

Im not really sure after bumrah- who can say they stake a claim to front line pace bowler in odi lineup. certainly not umesh or shami

[express bowling]

53 minutes ago, mancalledsting said:

my point also relates to how useful the stat of an average in ODI bowling is - Bhuvi was only bowler in CT2017 final who didn't get carted around, key performer in CT2013 success

 

His end bowling is very good.  But wicket taking ability remains a big concern. Only way to contain runs in modern ODIs is by taking wickets.  More than the average itself, this is the concern area.

 

Quote

, and was very good in last ODI series vs South Africa, NZ and Australia. So good in fact that Steve Smith said Bhuvi is one of best death bowlers around- just last year.

 

Just 2 wickets from 5 ODIs in S.A. with an ER of 6+.

 

ER  of 6.4  against NZ where he took wickets ...  5 from 3 games.  But he took wickets atleast.

 

Economical against Australia but not sufficient wickets again.

 

Quote

He's  gun on flat tracks in IPL too. 

 

Bhuvi is one of the best T20 pacers we have got.

 

Quote

 

Im not really sure after bumrah- who can say they stake a claim to front line pace bowler in odi lineup. certainly not umesh or shami

 

Fault of selectors and TM that they did not select proper ODI quality pacers and did not create backup.

 

What if one of Bumrah or Bhuvi is injured during WC 19   !

[mancalledsting]

19 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

His end bowling is very good.  But wicket taking ability remains a big concern. Only way to contain runs in modern ODIs is by taking wickets.  More than the average itself, this is the concern area.

 

 

Just 2 wickets from 5 ODIs in S.A. with an ER of 6+.

 

ER  of 6.4  against NZ where he took wickets ...  5 from 3 games.  But he took wickets atleast.

 

Economical against Australia but not sufficient wickets again.

 

 

Bhuvi is one of the best T20 pacers we have got.

 

 

Fault of selectors and TM that they did not select proper ODI quality pacers and did not create backup.

 

What if one of Bumrah or Bhuvi is injured during WC 19   !

His stats from NZ were skewed by Colin Munro going for him in final ODI- but he still delivered the killer blow at the death. If you look at his economy rate- it is second best after Bumrah. For me economy rate is more important in ODIs than average as being economical can bring wickets and means that opposition score is restricted. No point being like Umesh and getting 4 wickets for 70 runs (yeah average of 17.5 looks great but id rather take Bhuvi's 5rpo for 1 wicket). In tests I would prefer Umesh's figures (but tests are a different ball game). Odis are largely about containing. You don't have to take 10 wickets to win an ODI but you do have to take 20 wickets to win a test. Hence taking wickets in ODIs and having a low average not as important as economy (unlike tests). 

 

So you agree Bhuvi is our second best bowler- if that's the case lets cultivate a third good one- once he becomes better than Bhuvi we can drop Bhuvi if he doesn't get back to his old self- not till then

[zen]

2 hours ago, mancalledsting said:

For me economy rate is more important in ODIs than average as being economical can bring wickets and means that opposition score is restricted. No point being like Umesh and getting 4 wickets for 70 runs (yeah average of 17.5 looks great but id rather take Bhuvi's 5rpo for 1 wicket). In tests I would prefer Umesh's figures (but tests are a different ball game).

When extrapolated: 

 

4 for 70 = 175 All out

1 for 50 = 250 for 5