Constructive Steps Needed To Stop Choking in ICC Tournaments

[prudent_kreeda]

First need to identify BIG probelm points and address them on war footing . 

Its not that difficult to find what is the BIG ISSUE . Just check the strategy of Opposition teams to defeat India 

" Get 2-3 wickets inside 10 overs and expose brittle Middle Order" 

 

So  BIG Issue is opening & Middle Order.

 

From where they get this confidence of knocking 2-3 wickets early.  They cannot get that many wickets by Pace or short stuff or Spin.  Only way is by using whatever swing available .  All 3 openers SD, RS & KL are bunnies vs swing. 

So solution is simple ,

1.both RS & SD should remove this weakness as much as possible ,  try to survive if ball is swinging , be prepared by trainig hard for certain type of deliveries like incoming deliveries(KL & RS esp.) . If you do not see any improvement , phase them out .

2. When you are selecting next set of openers , give chances to those openers who are better at playing swing and not a set of absolute bunnies vs swing who cannot survive even 10 balls . 

 

Middle Order :- 

This is the problem created by TM & Selectors due to favoritism .

1.Wasted time on Raina , Dhoni , Yuvi since 2015-16 , when it was very clear all have past their expiry date by then.

2. Not clear what type of players selectors wanted in the middle order . Hence went on experimenting without giving any one a real consistent run. 

3. Too much emphasis on experience - No way Raydu , DK , Dhoni could have been  considered . Only justification given was experience . Experience  -  Three hoots for experience ! 

 

Solution :

1. Get rid of all middle order oldies (MSD, DK, KJ, ) .

2. Select new set of players with decent defensive technique , placers of the ball good at rotating strike. Good vs spin and can handle short stuff.If they are also hitters who can change gears nothing like it.  even if we have 2 clowns who are even 60% of Kohli's on consistenmcy, India should do well going forward. 

3. MO bats cannot be hit or miss batsmen. Their place should be at 6 to 8 .

4. Make Hardik One the main batsmen in the first 6  who can give you atleast 6 overs each match.  Just try this out for 15 matches on trot and assess.

Hope we get a good set of selectors who have clear vision & objective as to what type players should be selected for specific places , are good at talent spotting and most of all not swayed by few players'  diktats. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by prudent_kreeda

[SrinjayDutta]

13 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

Will we ever find an able replacement for peak Yuvi?

 

I feel he was the x-factor in our last two WC wins. 

 

Any player who fits his profile in our current domestic set-up?

Yuvi was magic. The two innings against aus in 2007 and 11 was as clutch as clutch can be.

[jalebi_bhai]

2 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

First need to identify BIG probelm points and address them on war footing . 

Its not that difficult to find what is the BIG ISSUE . Just check the strategy of Opposition teams to defeat India 

" Get 2-3 wickets inside 10 overs and expose brittle Middle Order" 

 

So  BIG Issue is opening & Middle Order.

 

From where they get this confidence of knocking 2-3 wickets early.  They cannot get that many wickets by Pace or short stuff or Spin.  Only way is by using whatever swing available .  All 3 openers SD, RS & KL are bunnies vs swing. 

So solution is simple ,

1.both RS & SD should remove this weakness as much as possible ,  try to survive if ball is swinging , be prepared by trainig hard for certain type of deliveries like incoming deliveries(KL & RS esp.) . If you do not see any improvement , phase them out .

2. When you are selecting next set of openers , give chances to those openers who are better at playing swing and not a set of absolute bunnies vs swing who cannot survive even 10 balls . 

 

Middle Order :- 

This is the problem created by TM & Selectors due to favoritism .

1.Wasted time on Raina , Dhoni , Yuvi since 2015-16 , when it was very clear all have past their expiry date by then.

2. Not clear what type of players selectors wanted in the middle order . Hence went on experimenting without giving any one a real consistent run. 

3. Too much emphasis on experience - No way Raydu , DK , Dhoni could have been  considered . Only justification given was experience . Experience  -  Three hoots for experience ! 

 

Solution :

1. Get rid of all middle order oldies (MSD, DK, KJ, ) .

2. Select new set of players with decent defensive technique , placers of the ball good at rotating strike. Good vs spin and can handle short stuff.If they are also hitters who can change gears nothing like it.  even if we have 2 clowns who are even 60% of Kohli's on consistenmcy, India should do well going forward. 

3. MO bats cannot be hit or miss batsmen. Their place should be at 6 to 8 .

4. Make Hardik One the main batsmen in the first 6  who can give you atleast 6 overs each match.  Just try this out for 15 matches on trot and assess.

Hope we get a good set of selectors who have clear vision & objective as to what type players should be selected for specific places , are good at talent spotting and most of all not swayed by few players'  diktats. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 areas which need  urgent attention is  

a. Openers & game plan to tackle swing.

b. Consistency in middle overs. 

 

Openers Probelm :- 

1. Every Opposition has only 1 mantra  to defeat India -  .  

Good post. Couldn't agree more. 

 

Do you think Rohit and Shikhar will last till 2023? Both will be 36 and 37 respectively.

[jalebi_bhai]

1 minute ago, SrinjayDutta said:

Yuvi was magic. The two innings against aus in 2007 and 11 was as clutch as clutch can be.

Yup. 

[ungboysj]

Blood in Shaw Gill Saini Chahar Nagarkoti immediately

Give more exposure to Pant Pandya Kuldeep

Find a new captain

 

[GolGappe]

They are still a pretty good team.

 

ODI and T20 belong to younger hungrier player. Don't oversell experience and maturity.

 

Nobody outside of Indian selection panel and team management would have picked the likes of Jadhavs and Kaarthiks over Pants Gills etc.

 

Additionally, they allowed the Dhoni issue to drag on.

 

 

[IndianRenegade]

5 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

Good post. Couldn't agree more. 

 

Do you think Rohit and Shikhar will last till 2023? Both will be 36 and 37 respectively.

No. your reflexes must be good as openers and by then they will also be a liability on the field. We should start phasing them out in a couple of years.

[prudent_kreeda]

4 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

Good post. Couldn't agree more. 

 

Do you think Rohit and Shikhar will last till 2023? Both will be 36 and 37 respectively.

    They may not . But issue is they will not discaeded right away unless Form dips alarmingly. I doubt Rohit will maintain fitness till 2023.  Once he starts going downhill it will be very quick downfall may be just like Veeru.  

[IndianRenegade]

Give Dhoni his send off match as soon as possible. No Jhadav, DK, or any so called experienced batsman in the middle order. Bring in new blood and give them the freedom to fail.

 

 

[Cricketics]

 -  Give ODI captaincy to someone young prepare him now so he is ready by 2023. Give that captain also the captaincy for twenty20 so that the player goes through the pressure of handingling World Cup pressure which he may observe next year in 2020 tournament in Australia so he get used to the pressure of the World Cup and is ready by 2023 50 over cup.

- Bring Shaw and Shubman right away to all the line ups. Give them a really really long rope. 

 

That is all I can think right now. Will add more later. 

 

[nevada]

9 minutes ago, SrinjayDutta said:

Yuvi was magic. The two innings against aus in 2007 and 11 was as clutch as clutch can be.

That's why Gambhir called him the best white ball cricketer for India. Phattu Kohli can shove his centuries and other records where the sun doesn't shine. Joker goes AWOL when we need him the most.

[nevada]

2 minutes ago, IndianRenegade said:

Give Dhoni his send off match as soon as possible. No Jhadav, DK, or any so called experienced batsman in the middle order. Bring in new blood and give them the freedom to fail.

 

 

Uh, no. A send off dinner is enough 

[The Realist]

32 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

Will we ever find an able replacement for peak Yuvi?

 

I feel he was the x-factor in our last two WC wins. 

 

Any player who fits his profile in our current domestic set-up?

Also Raina has been underrated. His aggression down the order has been badly missed.

[beetle]

We need to keep a bigger pool of players who will be part of the India team. Rotate them so that we have two for each position at all times.

Even if the established players like rohit,dhawan virat are doing well...rest them for non important matches and let others play.

 

Virat needs to go as skipper in odis .

Bad captain who is not confident of himself .

Besides his yaari dosti prevents new talent from coming into the team.

 

Dhoni has to go.

We have been playing extra players just for him to look nice and keep his place.

Hos insecurities have caused the middle order problem.

 

Bcci needs to check the player management and their influence over team selections and retention of players.

 

Rhiti and Sejdah representing dhoni and kohli have turned indian cricket into their personal profit making field.

These guys need to be reigned in or this will pass on to the next generation too.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by beetle

[Adi BB]

Batting heavy line up is the need of the hour in modern day LOi cricket .

You need stroke makers in the middle order and hitters at the end not these old timers and passengers.

Main reason for India's chokefest in the past 4 years has been timidity,extra cautious in both batting and bowling approach, playing methodical game without any flair or urgency 

[Tendulkar1996]

Choking is a perception, it happens because you go all in on top 3 strategy and then can't recover from 10-2 when ball swings because you have stuffed your middle order with useless fools like kartik,kedar,dhoni etc.Lets see -

 

2015 we were underdogs .Dhawan and rohit were raw.Kohli was only becoming beast.All else were washed up.Chasing a huge total due to our **** bowling.

 

T20 against west indies was because of bowling unable to defend 192.West indies is a deadly t20 team and can do that to anyone.

 

The 2 other chokes - CT final and this are because of the  reason mentioned on top.Rigid adherence to top3 strategy,not developing middle order coupled with inability to play swing.Rohit is a bunny against swing.Kohli is vulnerable,or any player in the world for that matter early on against swing.So if your whole bet rests on top 3 and you lose 2 early,its over.We didnt even have dhawan here,and he too is **** against swing.

[IndianRenegade]

7 minutes ago, The Realist said:

Also Raina has been underrated. His aggression down the order has been badly missed.

Yuvi and Raina on song, and an in form Dhoni gave our middle order an invincible aura. Effortless six hitters. But we need replacements now.

[jalebi_bhai]

15 minutes ago, beetle said:

We need to keep a bigger pool of players who will be part of the India team. Rotate them so that we have two for each position at all times.

Even if the established players like rohit,dhawan virat are doing well...rest them for non important matches and let others play.

 

Virat needs to go as skipper in odis .

Bad captain who is not confident of himself .

Besides his yaari dosti prevents new talent from coming into the team.

 

Dhoni has to go.

We have been playing extra players just for him to look nice and keep his place.

Hos insecurities have caused the middle order problem.

 

Bcci needs to check the player management and their influence over team selections and retention of players.

 

Rhiti and Sejdah representing dhoni and kohli have turned indian cricket into their personal profit making field.

These guys need to be reigned in or this will pass on to the next generation too.

 

 

 

 

Kohli was rested last year for Asia Cup, Nidhas and other T20 series. He has back problems so expect his workload to reduce further.

 

Rohit and Shikhar have to be rested more in LOIs. Shikhar might even have to be phased out.

 

Yes, this issue of player power must be fixed asap.

[Vilander]

50 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

People are not blaming the bowlers but on a wicket like this India should have gotten New Zealand out for 180.

dude the religion thing is crass and low life at first, and unfunny when someone uses it as a joke. but the joke is still on Pakistan to come up with something like this. 

 

Shami was dropped because of a strategic blunder from TM, they felt Bhuv could take wickets up front and dry up runs in the end. But the fact is he is not getting wickets up front or did not in this game. Happens. 

[Vilander]

5 minutes ago, IndianRenegade said:

Yuvi and Raina on song, and an in form Dhoni gave our middle order an invincible aura. Effortless six hitters. But we need replacements now.

this.

 

Need replacements fo Yuvi/Raina/and Prime dhoni. We never got them. Pandey was a loss of time then Rayudu.