Will Ishant Sharma surpass Zaheer Khan as better test pacer?

[Sandeep99]

6 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Was becoz of his wrist position which he lost in between due to which his seam use to land wobbly and his control wasnt great, now his wrist position is fine 

 

Talking about Sharma’s improvement in bowling, Gillespie explained, “Sometimes he would stand there and stare if a decision hasn’t gone his way or he wasn’t happy with the delivery or whatever. He would slowly trudge back. It wasn’t ideal. So I would keep telling him to show some urgency. When he started to do it – that was the turning point for me, not any particular spell in a match.”

 

“I would keep telling him to show urgency. In county cricket, you had to bowl 96 overs in a day. So first of all, I had to sort it out in that respect. Secondly, it meant he wasn’t wasting his time thinking about irrelevant stuff.

“Get back to the top of the run up. Take a breath. Think what I am looking to achieve with this ball. What would allow me to bowl that particular delivery. Just crack on after that. And Ishant would run in and do that. No trudging, no drifting mentally, just crack on and bowl. It was good to see that he took it on board early and it showed me he cared.”

Talking about that, Gillespie said, “It was clear what Ishant needed to do. Sometimes, he can bowl a little bit short and little wide and not test the batsmen’s front foot defence. The length was I think due to bowling a lot in Indian conditions. Even when you are trying to hit the top of the off stump in India, you can hit a back of length because of the (lack of) bounce. The key to bowling in the UK is the length. You have to challenge the stumps. That was what we worked. He needed to get the ball fuller, inviting the batsman to play off the front foot. And get them thinking about looking towards a positive stroke on the front foot. You are then bringing in all sorts of dismissals.”

Gillespie added on that, “We worked on his seam and wrist position at release. The aim was not to get this ball swing in. Have an upright seam and we talked about adjustments needed and how to keep the wrists and fingers in a particular way. We also talked about how he could use the crease better – create different angles to keep the batsmen guessing.”

 

 

https://cricshots.com/jason-gillespie-reveals-how-ishant-sharma-improves-his-bowling/

 

 

This is what a good coach does. Work on finer aspects and provide career changing advice. Wish we had Jason as our bowling coach.. Imagine how much guys like Khaleel, Avesh, Saini, Mavi, etc would benefit from him!

[Vk1]

Zaheer took lot of time ( around 32 tests ) to get to his first 100 wickets milestone. That was supposed to be his prime time. With this current attack and huge battery of fast bowlers waiting.. both srinath and zaheer's records could be crossed 

[singhprakash72]

Still feel Ishant wasted at least 7-8 years of bowling filth mostly under Dhoni's captaincy... he could have been ATG Indian fast bowler. I was also puzzled by his bowling on 3rd morning to the no 10 batsman bowling length balls outside off which Cummins left with ease.

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, singhprakash72 said:

I was also puzzled by his bowling on 3rd morning to the no 10 batsman bowling length balls outside off which Cummins left with ease.

this i had a fleeting feeling will he start doing his scratch his head and grin routine after no 10 trashes him a bit...but thank god he got that mis time. 

 

He does not bowl york length well, guess bumrah was too stiff in his back. There is some room for improvement. Shami should improve his yorkers.

[Vilander]

16 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

Ishant till SA 2013 series

Matches: 53

Wickets: 149

Avg: 38.81

5-fers: 3

 

Ishant after SA series

Matches: 38

Wickets: 126

Avg: 27.34

5-fers: 6

 

Last 12 matches

Wickets: 49

Avg: 19.75

 

 

point is if he continues like this for  next 5 years say and ends with  400+ wickets

 

say 2013 to 2024 brought  280 wickets at 27-28 it will be difficult to not judge him as a very good bowler just because his average over career is over 30 , how can one not rate him alongside with other bowlers who did 250 to 300 wickets under 30 in their entire career ? 

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 hours ago, putrevus said:

Kohli has used him very well.He has improved leaps and bounds but he also has a captain who understands fast bowlers.He along with other fast bowlers have to next step , they have to start dominating teams now.

n kohli has also improved his wrist position i guess which was his biggest problem

Kohli alsi helped ishant burst on scene which is when he bowled at his best under kumble ....

 

His perfomance improved becoz he improved his wrist position n some what county stint to 

[mancalledsting]

key changes from Dhoni era behind Ishant's success: 

 

he is a one format only bowler which gives him more consistent lengths and more energy for his test spells 

he is playing under a captain who understands fast bowling 

he has a good bowling and fielding unit to back him up; he can concentrate on pitching balls in right area as opposed to being expected to blast sides out 

 

Michael Holding called it during 2014 test series vs England. It's not possible for him to have achieved so many 5 wicket hauls if he was a bad bowler. And that makes total sense- just that Kohli has managed him properly. 

[Vk1]

2 hours ago, mancalledsting said:

key changes from Dhoni era behind Ishant's success: 

 

he is a one format only bowler which gives him more consistent lengths and more energy for his test spells 

he is playing under a captain who understands fast bowling 

he has a good bowling and fielding unit to back him up; he can concentrate on pitching balls in right area as opposed to being expected to blast sides out 

 

Michael Holding called it during 2014 test series vs England. It's not possible for him to have achieved so many 5 wicket hauls if he was a bad bowler. And that makes total sense- just that Kohli has managed him properly. 

That phase of unlucky Ishant ruined his figures a lot.. don't remember any cricketing analyst in India having any clue of what Ishant should have done during that unlucky phase.n

Actually Ipl inaugural auction started weeks after his legendary spell to Ponting and from there onwards he lost his way. If only he had joined county cricket around 2010s under some good guidance he might have done wonders.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Vk1

[Muloghonto]

County cricket made th big difference. Just like with Zak. 

[cricketfan28]

should be consistent in both form and fitness.

[Vilander]

i saw this particular comment in an English/NZ cricket forum where folks were making fun of Ishants claimed height of 6'4 and its ridiculous and offered theories as to why Ishant does not care to measure his height properly.. its a pet project of mine. I find it very curious..

 

lolz

 

so here it is

 

Abey Lambu why is Holder 6'8 and why are you 6'4 hehe 

 

 

[express bowling]

16 minutes ago, Vilander said:

i saw this particular comment in an English/NZ cricket forum where folks were making fun of Ishants claimed height of 6'4 and its ridiculous and offered theories as to why Ishant does not care to measure his height properly.. 

 

 

Ishant's height is either 6'5" or 6'6".

 

Were these guys claiming that he was shorter than 6'4"  ?

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 hours ago, mancalledsting said:

key changes from Dhoni era behind Ishant's success: 

 

he is a one format only bowler which gives him more consistent lengths and more energy for his test spells 

he is playing under a captain who understands fast bowling 

he has a good bowling and fielding unit to back him up; he can concentrate on pitching balls in right area as opposed to being expected to blast sides out 

 

Michael Holding called it during 2014 test series vs England. It's not possible for him to have achieved so many 5 wicket hauls if he was a bad bowler. And that makes total sense- just that Kohli has managed him properly. 

• Ishant success n failure had nothing to do with the captain
• He bowled his best under kumble when he burst on the scene......coz of his own ability
• He started struggling under dhoni as soon as he started to fiddle his wrist position. His stock was incoming deilevery but then he tried to develop outswing which *ed his wrist position and he lost his control, nip......it was a down hill from there. 
• Kohli has been captain since 2015 in test, he finally started doing well last year when after few years his wrist position got soughted . Kohli had nothing to do with it, if that was the case ishant wud have started doing well as soon as kohli became captain. 

SO its was Ishant own struggle and no captain had nothing to do with it . 

[rkt.india]

5 hours ago, Vk1 said:

That phase of unlucky Ishant ruined his figures a lot.. don't remember any cricketing analyst in India having any clue of what Ishant should have done during that unlucky phase.n

Actually Ipl inaugural auction started weeks after his legendary spell to Ponting and from there onwards he lost his way. If only he had joined county cricket around 2010s under some good guidance he might have done wonders.

 

 

he was fine even after IPL 2008 and 2009.  He got MOS against Aus in late 2008 test series. Did well against England as well.  His decline started from WI ODI series after IPL 2009 when in attempt to get that outswinger, he made subtle changes in his action, he was trying to copy Zak's bowling.  I has not watched much of WI ODIs but i first notices that change in 2009 T20 WC.  He was all over the place, his pace was down, his seam and wrist position was horrible.

[Suhaan]

2 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

• Ishant success n failure had nothing to do with the captain
• He bowled his best under kumble when he burst on the scene......coz of his own ability
• He started struggling under dhoni as soon as he started to fiddle his wrist position. His stock was incoming deilevery but then he tried to develop outswing which *ed his wrist position and he lost his control, nip......it was a down hill from there. 
• Kohli has been captain since 2015 in test, he finally started doing well last year when after few years his wrist position got soughted . Kohli had nothing to do with it, if that was the case ishant wud have started doing well as soon as kohli became captain. 

SO its was Ishant own struggle and no captain had nothing to do with it . 

You have completely ignored the sl tour of 2015 which coincided with Kohli's captaincy,his rise started then already

Its quite obvious a batting captain won't give technical inputs,but atleast they can give freedom and support to a bowler

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, Suhaan said:

You have completely ignored the sl tour of 2015 which coincided with Kohli's captaincy,his rise started then already

Its quite obvious a batting captain won't give technical inputs,but atleast they can give freedom and support to a bowler

But ishant had full suppourt under dhoni as well

The ones he didnt suppourt were umesh n aaron , umesh has gone nowere under kohli as well .

 

Ishant problem was wrist issue n action change which has nothing to do with captaincy. He only started bowling well when his issues got fine.

About 2015, ishant kept giving good perfomances here n there always even under dhoni to

[Suhaan]

15 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

But ishant had full suppourt under dhoni as well

The ones he didnt suppourt were umesh n aaron , umesh has gone nowere under kohli as well .

 

Ishant problem was wrist issue n action change which has nothing to do with captaincy. He only started bowling well when his issues got fine.

About 2015, ishant kept giving good perfomances here n there always even under dhoni to

Umesh has no brains to do well at this level his only usp is bowling fast without breaking sweat

Aaron unfortunately has been out of the radar,so their is no sample size

I remember even Shami didn't do well under dhoni like he is doing today

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, Suhaan said:

Umesh has no brains to do well at this level his only usp is bowling fast without breaking sweat

Aaron unfortunately has been out of the radar,so their is no sample size

I remember even Shami didn't do well under dhoni like he is doing today

 

Thats what dhoni said n ppl lashed on him in regd to umesh including me but as time went by we realised umesh didnt go anywere

 

Shami problem was fitness....he has been gr8 in this year becoz he worked on fitness.

Shami did decent under dhoni but his fitness was an issue. Obv shami is more experienced now hence he got better

The only thing dhoni did wrong was overuse him in SA 2013 tour which exposed his n other fitness. But thats also highlighted our problem that we need a 5th bowler in test cricket. 

[Real McCoy]

Zaheer, Srinath and Kapil were India's only noteworthy pacers of their time. Ishant is doing better now because he is bowling with a better attack consisting of Bumrah and Shami with another set of pacers knocking on the door. Ishant was touted to be the next big thing in 2007 when he performed well in the Aus tour but his pace and enthusiasm dropped after 2008. That was the time when dada and Kumble retired and the onus of captaincy fell on Dhoni who never understood tests and fast bowling.

 

Also Venky "legcutter" Prasad was our bowling coach whose coaching philosophy was to cut down the pace and focus on line and length. Worked wonders for Venky's career didn't it That period also has some of the flattest pitches throughout the world apart from SA/Eng. He got used to the back of the length bowling and afraid to pitch it up. It became a habit and even now when things are not going well, he shifts to that approach.

 

Ishant is a rhythm bowler and if the batsman is proactive and drives him for a few fours, he can be tempted to change his length. This is what Clarke did when he scored that 300+. In the previous test, he got bowled through the gate to a full length delivery. After the 300, he had the measure of Ishant throughout the series. That didn't change even when Sehwag captained the final test in that series. So not everything can be blamed on poor captaincy. He didn't correct his mistakes sooner and let go after a while. Looks like he's making an effort to pitch the ball up now. It will be interesting to see how he performs at home where conditions don't favor him. The same test will be for the other pacers as well.

 

He will surely pass Zaheer's numbers but the impact that Zaheer had was far more than Ishant's. Zaheer missed the first test in the series in SA in 2010-11. We got hammered and lost by an innings in the first test (aila completed his century in the second innings when the pitch eased out ). When Zaheer came back for the second test, his mere presence enabled India to win that test even though Sreesanth picked a fifer. He was the leader of the pack. Ishant failed to take over that responsibility from Zaheer. Bumrah and Shami looks more of a leader than Ishant.

[Vilander]

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Ishant's height is either 6'5" or 6'6".

 

Were these guys claiming that he was shorter than 6'4"  ?

no they were laughing that Ishant claims he is 6'4..they were certain he is way more than that