Batting when both McGrath and Warne are playing

[zen]

19 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Yes, sample size of 3 to prove a skewed statistical analysis is not for me. Will keep out to let you troll on Sachin morphed pics. Enjoy. 
 

BTW, I have watched most of these games and followed scorecards and match reports as it happened, these are not evident on statsguru

I know it is not for you. If it were you would not keep making "assumptions" such as thinking that watching games, following scorecards, match reports, etc., is mutually exclusive to you. And people either do this or that 

 

 

 

 

[Laaloo]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

How come you never trollvote zen in these direct/indirect Tendu dissing threads? Gujju bhaichara? 

I usually troll vote him as well. Let me see

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, Laaloo said:

I usually troll vote him as well. Let me see

So no Gujju bhaichara, Sachin supreme Lord. 

[Real McCoy]

2 hours ago, zen said:

First of all, the thread is not about any particular player. The data on how batsmen performed in top order and middle order per the topic. There is no preference for one player or the other. So what you are trying to suggest is outside the scope of the topic (there is no point for me to over such basics and to spoon feed) 

 

If you are looking at only Dravid & Sachin, when both batted in MO, Dravid has a better average. If Sachin batted in top order like Dravid, his average could have been even less than Dravid's or if Dravid batted more in the MO, he could have a better avg. 

 

 

On a side note, since you mentioned vs SA, when both Donald & Pollock play:

 

#1-3

 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Opposition team South Africa

Wicketkeeper not as wicketkeeper

Involving all of the players AA Donald (SA)  or SM Pollock (SA)

Batting position between 1 and 3

Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 3  and runs scored greater than or equal to 100

Ordered by batting average (descending)

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Showing 1 - 1 of 1

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
R Dravid	1997-2000	4	8	0	337	148	42.12	939	35.88	1	1	0	48	0

 

#4-7

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Opposition team South Africa

Wicketkeeper not as wicketkeeper

Involving all of the players AA Donald (SA)  or SM Pollock (SA)

Batting position between 4 and 7

Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 3  and runs scored greater than or equal to 100

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 3 of 3

First Previous

Next  Last

Return to query menu Cleared query menu

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
SC Ganguly	1997-2000	3	5	0	196	73	39.20	379	51.71	0	2	0	33	3
SR Tendulkar	1996-2000	5	10	0	387	169	38.70	721	53.67	1	1	0	58	2
M Azharuddin	1996-2000	4	8	0	271	115	33.87	372	72.84	2	0	0	39	4

 

 

Maybe such discussions are not for you

I guess most aila's fans are delusional because they believe him when he says Cronje was the toughest bowler he faced Dravid is honest about which bowlers he struggled against. He said in a commentary stint that Mcgrath was the toughest bowler he came across because of the bounce he generates. He said he knew he had to play forward to a fuller delivery but because of the bounce, he had to play from the crease and it was a nightmare. He said he couldn't even think about it even after retiring. That's as honest as it gets.

Lara said Mcgrath and Warne as the toughest bowlers he faced. He also mentions Murali who is even more tougher to play starting his innings but if you play him for an hour, he loses confidence. Warne on the other hand raises the tempo when he is under attack and gets more stronger as the game progresses.

Warne also says Tendulkar gave him nightmares when he took him on in that 98 tour and the ODI series that followed. That says how sporting these players were. Tendy on the other hand tries to save his reputation by not saying the truth. That makes him a poor sportsman. He got owned by Mcgrath and Anderson also. But Cronje it is

This gives the reputation that he is better than Dravid when it comes to facing Mcwarne but the numbers show a different story. Also Sachin tends to hit a few boundaries off of them and it gets to the mind of the average fan that he is better. Of course Sachin can play aggressively and is a better player in ODIs but in tests against the better players, its more of a mind game than anything else. Whenever Dravid fails, he owns upto it. Whenever aila fails, its either Crnje is better than the rest or the pitch deteriorated and had low bounce or something like that.

[cricketfan28]

Feel sorry for that woman, it is not fair.

[Real McCoy]

3 hours ago, zen said:

I would like to know more about this. The link does not bust it but attempts to put its theory as fact. For e.g. "hardly attended" is not not attending

 

Quote

It is disrespectful to both the woman and the Padma Shri awardee to share this image. 

Thought control at action from that article . I could share it any number of times as I want. Its my constitutional right

[Jimmy Cliff]

7 hours ago, Audiophile said:

Ailaa is truly an underachieving genius! Where he overachieved was wearing a sari and posing as a Hijra!

Ailaa averaged 45+ in live Tests against Australia when both McGrath and Warne were playing. This is better than what Lara, Laxman and Dravid averaged in live Tests against them and a huge improvement from the time when certain Indian batsmen were known to be humiliated by full strength Aussie attacks led by Lillee in the 70s and 80s .

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by Jimmy Cliff

[Gollum]

10 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

I guess most aila's fans are delusional because they believe him when he says Cronje was the toughest bowler he faced Dravid is honest about which bowlers he struggled against. He said in a commentary stint that Mcgrath was the toughest bowler he came across because of the bounce he generates. He said he knew he had to play forward to a fuller delivery but because of the bounce, he had to play from the crease and it was a nightmare. He said he couldn't even think about it even after retiring. That's as honest as it gets.

Lara said Mcgrath and Warne as the toughest bowlers he faced. He also mentions Murali who is even more tougher to play starting his innings but if you play him for an hour, he loses confidence. Warne on the other hand raises the tempo when he is under attack and gets more stronger as the game progresses.

Warne also says Tendulkar gave him nightmares when he took him on in that 98 tour and the ODI series that followed. That says how sporting these players were. Tendy on the other hand tries to save his reputation by not saying the truth. That makes him a poor sportsman. He got owned by Mcgrath and Anderson also. But Cronje it is

This gives the reputation that he is better than Dravid when it comes to facing Mcwarne but the numbers show a different story. Also Sachin tends to hit a few boundaries off of them and it gets to the mind of the average fan that he is better. Of course Sachin can play aggressively and is a better player in ODIs but in tests against the better players, its more of a mind game than anything else. Whenever Dravid fails, he owns upto it. Whenever aila fails, its either Crnje is better than the rest or the pitch deteriorated and had low bounce or something like that.

When interviewer asks Sachin who was the toughest bowler he faced

 

When Tendu says Cronje 

[zen]

1 hour ago, Real McCoy said:

I guess most aila's fans are delusional because they believe him when he says Cronje was the toughest bowler he faced Dravid is honest about which bowlers he struggled against. He said in a commentary stint that Mcgrath was the toughest bowler he came across because of the bounce he generates. He said he knew he had to play forward to a fuller delivery but because of the bounce, he had to play from the crease and it was a nightmare. He said he couldn't even think about it even after retiring. That's as honest as it gets.

Lara said Mcgrath and Warne as the toughest bowlers he faced. He also mentions Murali who is even more tougher to play starting his innings but if you play him for an hour, he loses confidence. Warne on the other hand raises the tempo when he is under attack and gets more stronger as the game progresses.

Warne also says Tendulkar gave him nightmares when he took him on in that 98 tour and the ODI series that followed. That says how sporting these players were. Tendy on the other hand tries to save his reputation by not saying the truth. That makes him a poor sportsman. He got owned by Mcgrath and Anderson also. But Cronje it is

This gives the reputation that he is better than Dravid when it comes to facing Mcwarne but the numbers show a different story. Also Sachin tends to hit a few boundaries off of them and it gets to the mind of the average fan that he is better. Of course Sachin can play aggressively and is a better player in ODIs but in tests against the better players, its more of a mind game than anything else. Whenever Dravid fails, he owns upto it. Whenever aila fails, its either Crnje is better than the rest or the pitch deteriorated and had low bounce or something like that.

We have to be honest about our players' performances. When it comes to this thread, it is about evaluating which batsmen do well against a side like Aus when McGrath & Warne are playing. It encompasses both Indian and international players. But what do we see from this delusional group:

 

• Thinking that since Sachin is not at the top, the thread is against him. As if the whole world revolves around him and is conducting conspiracies 
• Trying to unnecessarily turn it into a Dravid v Sachin for e.g., when even if Dravid averages 0, it does not change Sachin's performance v others on the list (there are quite a few batsmen)
• Also attempting to make an issue out of Sachin pics instead of having some innocent fun   
• No appreciation shown to players who have done well such as Laxman, Sehwag, Lara, Pietersen, etc. Rather they will look for avenues to bring these players down to hide Sachin behind them (ironically)
• Rather than discussing who did good/bad per the topic, some guys will go on a tangent to show how other unrelated cricketers (who could be ahead of Sachin) did badly v some bowler not even on this thread (funny if those batsmen play in top order, countering the new ball, which Sachin never did, and as if it changes anything about Sachin)  
• And these guys will go around trying to write against almost every other player on this planet in general as if that makes Sachin any better 

 

I won't be surprised if some of these guys would even dress up like Sachin in that picture if Sachin asks them to. I take such behavior as comic relief but the forum could go down the drain with such delusional attitude. We blame Pakistanis (though appreciate the comic relief), but this delusional group is similar .... Anyways, for their effort to pray Sachin, I hope that Sachin at least offers these fans a glass of water if they go to meet him

 

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by zen

[Gollum]

@Jimmy Cliff best antidote to Gavaskar fanboyism here. 

[Gollum]

@Real McCoy equivalent will be:

 

Federer saying Canas was his toughest opponent, tbh the Argentine did beat the Swiss 2x in 2007 Sunshine Double, that year happened to be one of Fed's greatest seasons: 3 GS, RG final where he played very well against God of clay, won ATP WTF and a few Masters.

 

Nadal saying Davydenko was his toughest opponent, Russian with winning record and stopped him in 3 finals in 2008-10 period which was peak Rafa.

 

Djokovic saying Roddick, Safin, even Kyrgios for that matter.

 

Vijay Amritraj had winning H2H against Laver, Stan Smith, Vilas, Nastase. So he was the toughest opponent for those ATGs?

 

So many good-great bowlers had the edge over Sachin: Donald, Pollock, Anderson, Murali, McGrath, Vaas, Saqlain etc. and he chooses Cronje.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Gollum

[Stan AF]

Correct me if i'm wrong but how is Dravid averaging 55 here??. AFAIK, there were 3 series where dravid played against both mcgrath or/and warne. 1999, 2001 & 2004.

 

 

Averaged 15.5  in 1999/00 (93 runs from 6 innings). Totally gone with the wind here in this series.

56.33 in 2001/04 (338 from 6 innings). One high score of 180.

27.83 in 2004 (167 runs from 6 innings). Again not fab 4 level.

 

There were 10 matches, 598 runs from 18 innings. Average 33.22

Am I missing something????

 

 

 

 

[Nikola]

3 minutes ago, Stan AF said:

Correct me if i'm wrong but how is Dravid averaging 55 here??. AFAIK, there were 3 series where dravid played against both mcgrath or/and warne. 1999, 2001 & 2004.

 

 

Averaged 15.5  in 1999/00 (93 runs from 6 innings). Totally gone with the wind here in this series.

56.33 in 2001/04 (338 from 6 innings). One high score of 180.

27.83 in 2004 (167 runs from 6 innings). Again not fab 4 level.

 

There were 10 matches, 598 runs from 18 innings. Average 33.22

Am I missing something????

 

 

 

 

Batting position filters. He batted at 4 or below in those innings also his 180 knock came at lower order.

[Gollum]

3 minutes ago, Stan AF said:

Correct me if i'm wrong but how is Dravid averaging 55 here??. AFAIK, there were 3 series where dravid played against both mcgrath or/and warne. 1999, 2001 & 2004.

 

 

Averaged 15.5  in 1999/00 (93 runs from 6 innings). Totally gone with the wind here in this series.

56.33 in 2001/04 (338 from 6 innings). One high score of 180.

27.83 in 2004 (167 runs from 6 innings). Again not fab 4 level.

 

There were 10 matches, 598 runs from 18 innings. Average 33.22

Am I missing something????

Trick is in the filter

Batting position

#4-7: only 6 innings, 332 runs one of them being that famous 180

[Stan AF]

For obvious reasons I haven't included the ICC vs australia in 2005 where dravid scored 0 & 23 in which both mcgrath and warne played.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/14758/scorecard/221840/australia-vs-icc-world-xi-only-test-icc-world-xi-tour-of-australia-2005-06

[Stan AF]

1 minute ago, Gollum said:

Trick is in the filter

Batting position

#4-7: only 6 innings, 332 runs one of them being that famous 180

Shady nonsense as usual from him.

[Stan AF]

To imply that overall Dravid played better than Tendulkar vs Australia is absolutely laughable.

I can tolerate fanboys/trolls as i know they are just messing around. But I can't do the same for intellectual posers.

 

What I don't understand is how mods @Trichromatic are allowing this nonsense. Tendulkar may have his faults but this unabashed bashing of an indian cricket legend in ICF is absolutely disgusting.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Stan AF

[Nikola]

7 minutes ago, Stan AF said:

To imply that overall Dravid played better than Tendulkar vs Australia is absolutely laughable.

I can tolerate fanboys/trolls as i know they are just messing around. But I can't do the same for intellectual posers.

 

What I don't understand is how mods @Trichromatic are allowing this nonsense. Tendulkar may have his faults but this unabashed bashing of an indian cricket legend in ICF is absolutely disgusting.

Better start ignoring such meaningless threads than replying so op himself will find no reason to post such threads.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Nikola

[Real McCoy]

2 minutes ago, Stan AF said:

To imply that overall Dravid played better than Tendulkar vs Australia is absolutely laughable.

I can tolerate fanboys/trolls as i know they are just messing around. But I can't do the same for intellectual posers.

 

What I don't understand is how mods @Trichromatic are allowing this nonsense. Tendulkar may have his faults but this unabashed bashing of an indian cricket legend in ICF is absolutely disgusting.

You are over reacting. This is not a Tendulkar bashing thread and even if it was, why are you going to the extreme of appealing to the mods to ban this thread. What about the Dravid/Dhoni/Virat/Rohit/Dhawan/Rahul/Ashwin bashing that goes on here. If you ban all these threads, there won't be an ICF. Just ribbing the Tendy fans and looks likes it worked

[Stan AF]

3 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

You are over reacting. This is not a Tendulkar bashing thread and even if it was, why are you going to the extreme of appealing to the mods to ban this thread. What about the Dravid/Dhoni/Virat/Rohit/Dhawan/Rahul/Ashwin bashing that goes on here. If you ban all these threads, there won't be an ICF. Just ribbing the Tendy fans and looks likes it worked

You should know me better than that. I have no problem with you or rasgulla orgollum for that matter even velu ribbing with laaloo and other tendulkar fans. I enjoy that banter.

 

But this kind of misleading stat nonsense is just not on. I don't like pissing on a man's hard earned runs.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Stan AF