putrevus Posted January 1, 2021 Posted January 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Gollum said: Sachin and Sanga benefitted so much thanks to BD lol. Against the current BD they wouldn't have scored so many 100s, 200s for sure. Coming to topic Gavaskar has to be the most overrated cricketer in Indian test history. Made merry in Packer years, otherwise would have averaged 44-45 with 8-9 100s less. And no way would he have scored 10k runs. That is very unfair on Sunny. Did he benefit from Packer years answer would be yes. But only Aussies and WI series were affected.Pakistan and England played full strength.When in form he could score runs against anyone anywhere.His last test innings is still one of the best against spinners on a bunsen burner. saik 1
Gollum Posted January 1, 2021 Posted January 1, 2021 31 minutes ago, putrevus said: That is very unfair on Sunny. Did he benefit from Packer years answer would be yes. But only Aussies and WI series were affected.Pakistan and England played full strength.When in form he could score runs against anyone anywhere.His last test innings is still one of the best against spinners on a bunsen burner. Overrated doesn't mean he wasn't great. Sunny is an ATG no doubt, but Indian fans spread a lot of myths about him. Played some 20 tests against second string WI and Aus, inflated his stats. Saying that he conquered WI quartet or his success in Australia, or that he is India's GOAT, must take with a pinch of salt.
putrevus Posted January 1, 2021 Posted January 1, 2021 1 minute ago, Gollum said: Overrated doesn't mean he wasn't great. Sunny is an ATG no doubt, but Indian fans spread a lot of myths about him. Played some 20 tests against second string WI and Aus, inflated his stats. Saying that he conquered WI quartet or his success in Australia, or that he is India's GOAT, must take with a pinch of salt. I agree.Same thing applies to Sachin too.I have never seen Sachin dominate any great attack like Lara.
DeepSpace Posted January 1, 2021 Posted January 1, 2021 On 9/3/2020 at 2:05 PM, zen said: A list of many of the key Test batsmen from India: View overall figures [change view] Primary team India http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif Opposition team Australia http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or England http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or India http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or New Zealand http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or Pakistan http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or South Africa http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or Sri Lanka http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or West Indies http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 5000 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 12 of 12 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/ciPhotoFirst-icon_13x13.gifFirst http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/ciPhotoPrev-disable-icon_13x13.gifPrevious Next http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/ciPhotoNext-disable.gif Last http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/ciPhotoLast-disable.gif http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/dblBakArwB.gifReturn to query menuhttp://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/dblBakArwW.gifCleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Avehttp://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/blackArrowDown.gif 100 50 0 V Kohli 2011-2020 82 140 10 6848 254* 52.67 25 22 9 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif SM Gavaskar 1971-1987 125 214 16 10122 236* 51.12 34 45 12 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif SR Tendulkar 1989-2013 184 306 28 14183 241* 51.01 43 65 13 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif R Dravid 1996-2012 147 261 27 11726 270 50.11 30 57 6 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif V Sehwag 2001-2013 96 168 4 8151 319 49.70 23 28 16 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif CA Pujara 2010-2020 73 123 7 5559 206* 47.92 18 21 7 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif VVS Laxman 1996-2012 125 213 32 8384 281 46.32 16 55 14 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif M Azharuddin 1984-2000 96 143 9 6156 199 45.94 22 21 5 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif DB Vengsarkar 1976-1992 116 185 22 6868 166 42.13 17 35 15 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif GR Viswanath 1969-1983 91 155 10 6080 222 41.93 14 35 10 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif SC Ganguly 1996-2008 99 169 16 6311 239 41.24 13 31 12 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif N Kapil Dev 1978-1994 129 182 15 5172 163 30.97 8 26 16 The top ones all average around the same so we can look into a few factors mentioned below, where Gavaskar stands out: 500 or more runs in a series: Gavaskar - 6 times most by an Indian batsman 3 or more 100s in a series: Gavaskar - 3 times, most by an Indian batsman 4th innings performance: Gavaskar - Avg 76 outside subcon, the highest among key Ind batsmen. Memorable performances include 221 in Eng and a 100 to help India chase 400+ in WI Performance at the point of entry of 100 or less runs: A top order batsman Among Indian test batsmen, I think Gavaskar is in a league of his own .... Among world ATG openers, he is one of those who can play both pace and spin well .... Gavaskar! Sunny is my hero, but one chink in his armor is that he feasted on 2nd class bowling during the two Packer years against WI and Aus in the late 70s. I would be interested to see what is average and record is, if you take those out.
Real McCoy Posted January 1, 2021 Posted January 1, 2021 4 hours ago, Gollum said: Overrated doesn't mean he wasn't great. Sunny is an ATG no doubt, but Indian fans spread a lot of myths about him. Played some 20 tests against second string WI and Aus, inflated his stats. Saying that he conquered WI quartet or his success in Australia, or that he is India's GOAT, must take with a pinch of salt. Part of this hype is due to his chamcha bewda who gave a talk about sunny with his whiskey breath kirkutfan 1
zen Posted January 1, 2021 Author Posted January 1, 2021 18 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: Part of this hype is due to his chamcha bewda who gave a talk about sunny with his whiskey breath I like how Shastri narrates that, believing that Gavaskar could avg 60 w/ modern equipment ... Even Richards below:
Tyron Posted January 2, 2021 Posted January 2, 2021 On 9/4/2020 at 6:05 AM, zen said: A list of many of the key Test batsmen from India: View overall figures [change view] Primary team India http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif Opposition team Australia http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or England http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or India http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or New Zealand http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or Pakistan http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or South Africa http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or Sri Lanka http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif or West Indies http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 5000 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruRemove.gif Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 12 of 12 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/ciPhotoFirst-icon_13x13.gifFirst http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/ciPhotoPrev-disable-icon_13x13.gifPrevious Next http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/ciPhotoNext-disable.gif Last http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/ciPhotoLast-disable.gif http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/dblBakArwB.gifReturn to query menuhttp://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/dblBakArwW.gifCleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Avehttp://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/blackArrowDown.gif 100 50 0 V Kohli 2011-2020 82 140 10 6848 254* 52.67 25 22 9 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif SM Gavaskar 1971-1987 125 214 16 10122 236* 51.12 34 45 12 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif SR Tendulkar 1989-2013 184 306 28 14183 241* 51.01 43 65 13 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif R Dravid 1996-2012 147 261 27 11726 270 50.11 30 57 6 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif V Sehwag 2001-2013 96 168 4 8151 319 49.70 23 28 16 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif CA Pujara 2010-2020 73 123 7 5559 206* 47.92 18 21 7 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif VVS Laxman 1996-2012 125 213 32 8384 281 46.32 16 55 14 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif M Azharuddin 1984-2000 96 143 9 6156 199 45.94 22 21 5 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif DB Vengsarkar 1976-1992 116 185 22 6868 166 42.13 17 35 15 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif GR Viswanath 1969-1983 91 155 10 6080 222 41.93 14 35 10 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif SC Ganguly 1996-2008 99 169 16 6311 239 41.24 13 31 12 http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif N Kapil Dev 1978-1994 129 182 15 5172 163 30.97 8 26 16 The top ones all average around the same so we can look into a few factors mentioned below, where Gavaskar stands out: 500 or more runs in a series: Gavaskar - 6 times most by an Indian batsman 3 or more 100s in a series: Gavaskar - 3 times, most by an Indian batsman 4th innings performance: Gavaskar - Avg 76 outside subcon, the highest among key Ind batsmen. Memorable performances include 221 in Eng and a 100 to help India chase 400+ in WI Performance at the point of entry of 100 or less runs: A top order batsman Among Indian test batsmen, I think Gavaskar is in a league of his own .... Among world ATG openers, he is one of those who can play both pace and spin well .... Gavaskar! Gavaskar faced the deadly pace quartlet once and you know what happened? He got wrecked. He never did well vs Roberts, holding, garner and Marshall when they bowled together. Still a great player though. Tendu is ahead imo.
Tyron Posted January 2, 2021 Posted January 2, 2021 11 hours ago, putrevus said: I agree.Same thing applies to Sachin too.I have never seen Sachin dominate any great attack like Lara. Agreed but Kohli did. Vs Aussies and South Africa. Both were great attacks.
zen Posted January 2, 2021 Author Posted January 2, 2021 (edited) The 4 WI bowlers have not played too many tests together and in a few that Gavaskar faced, he was among the best openers: Opposition team West Indies Involving all of the players J Garner (WI) or MA Holding (WI) or MD Marshall (WI) or AME Roberts (WI) Batting position between 1 and 2 Ordered by batting average (descending) Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 0 G Boycott (ENG) 1980-1980 2 4 0 202 86 50.50 0 2 0 SM Gavaskar (INDIA) 1983-1983 4 7 1 221 147* 36.83 1 0 1 GA Gooch (ENG) 1980-1980 2 4 0 72 27 18.00 0 0 0 AD Gaekwad (INDIA) 1983-1983 4 7 0 125 55 17.85 0 1 1 Edited January 2, 2021 by zen
Tyron Posted January 2, 2021 Posted January 2, 2021 3 hours ago, zen said: The 4 WI bowlers have not played too many tests together and in a few that Gavaskar faced, he was among the best openers: Opposition team West Indies Involving all of the players J Garner (WI) or MA Holding (WI) or MD Marshall (WI) or AME Roberts (WI) Batting position between 1 and 2 Ordered by batting average (descending) Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 0 G Boycott (ENG) 1980-1980 2 4 0 202 86 50.50 0 2 0 SM Gavaskar (INDIA) 1983-1983 4 7 1 221 147* 36.83 1 0 1 GA Gooch (ENG) 1980-1980 2 4 0 72 27 18.00 0 0 0 AD Gaekwad (INDIA) 1983-1983 4 7 0 125 55 17.85 0 1 1 Wow. Did not know that. Boycott ahead of Gavaskar is even more shocking. 36 for a player of Gavaskar's calibre is a bit low but I Understand that rules, conditions and pitches were totally different back then. His 36 is probably worth a lot as no one else could stand up to the fiery pace quartlet apart from boycott apparently.
zen Posted January 4, 2021 Author Posted January 4, 2021 @Real McCoy When the score is 100 or less, Tendulkar avg falls to roughly 43 (7641 runs in 178 innings so a huge sample size) .... so as a top order batman with fresh bowlers bowling w/ the red cherry, his avg would likely be in much less Laaloo 1
DeepSpace Posted January 5, 2021 Posted January 5, 2021 Have watched Gavaskar many time growing up. He was head and shoulders above other Indian batsmen of his era. However, he did not dominate attacks, but played against some quality bowlers. I rate Sachin higher, but difference between Sachin and his Indian peers was less than Gavaskar and his contemporaries. Sachin is not head and shoulders above Gavaskar.
SanjuManju Posted January 5, 2021 Posted January 5, 2021 Gavaskar is without doubt India’s best ever test batsman kohli is without doubt India’s best ever ODI and T20 batsman
Jimmy Cliff Posted January 5, 2021 Posted January 5, 2021 On 1/2/2021 at 10:55 AM, Tyron said: Wow. Did not know that. Boycott ahead of Gavaskar is even more shocking. 36 for a player of Gavaskar's calibre is a bit low but I Understand that rules, conditions and pitches were totally different back then. His 36 is probably worth a lot as no one else could stand up to the fiery pace quartlet apart from boycott apparently. If anything even the average of 36 flatters him. His only innings of note against the Quartet was the 147* in this rain affected bore draw where 2 of the first 4 days were washed out and India batted first on the 5th day . Gavaskar, being the man for this sort of occasion, cashed in and got a nice little showpiece hundred. In the rest of his innings against the WIPQ, his scores were: 20 0 1 32 2 19 LINK Meanwhile, a few generations of Indian kids grew up on the tall tales of Gavaskar dominating the ATG WI attack . Whereas in reality, he was mostly a non-entity against them struggling to take the shine off the new ball more often than not. Amarnath towered over him against the same attack by scoring 1 100 and 3 50+ scores in 7 innings . raki05 and putrevus 2
zen Posted January 5, 2021 Author Posted January 5, 2021 (edited) On 1/4/2021 at 11:14 PM, SanjuManju said: Gavaskar is without doubt India’s best ever test batsman Right now, Gavaskar is the only Ind player who can get into my AT test 11 (dynamic so keeps evolving): Edited January 16, 2022 by zen
Tyron Posted January 5, 2021 Posted January 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said: If anything even the average of 36 flatters him. His only innings of note against the Quartet was the 147* in this rain affected bore draw where 2 of the first 4 days were washed out and India batted first on the 5th day . Gavaskar, being the man for this sort of occasion, cashed in and got a nice little showpiece hundred. In the rest of his innings against the WIPQ, his scores were: 20 0 1 32 2 19 LINK Meanwhile, a few generations of Indian kids grew up on the tall tales of Gavaskar dominating the ATG WI attack . Whereas in reality, he was mostly a non-entity against them struggling to take the shine off the new ball more often than not. Amarnath towered over him against the same attack by scoring 1 100 and 3 50+ scores in 7 innings . I will take your word for it. Fair enough.
putrevus Posted January 5, 2021 Posted January 5, 2021 9 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said: If anything even the average of 36 flatters him. His only innings of note against the Quartet was the 147* in this rain affected bore draw where 2 of the first 4 days were washed out and India batted first on the 5th day . Gavaskar, being the man for this sort of occasion, cashed in and got a nice little showpiece hundred. In the rest of his innings against the WIPQ, his scores were: 20 0 1 32 2 19 LINK Meanwhile, a few generations of Indian kids grew up on the tall tales of Gavaskar dominating the ATG WI attack . Whereas in reality, he was mostly a non-entity against them struggling to take the shine off the new ball more often than not. Amarnath towered over him against the same attack by scoring 1 100 and 3 50+ scores in 7 innings . The problem with Jimmy was he never could repeat his heroics again in his career.Gavaskar was defintely miles ahead as a batsman over Jimmy. Vijy 1
Straight Drive Posted January 5, 2021 Posted January 5, 2021 1 hour ago, putrevus said: The problem with Jimmy was he never could repeat his heroics again in his career.Gavaskar was defintely miles ahead as a batsman over Jimmy. As a batsman Sunny would get a place even in World ATG 11 as opener. Amarnath would not even make the Indian 11.
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