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Apparently Sundar not among top 6 batsman in current form for Indian team

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2 minutes ago, nevada said:

Two back to back clutch innings against. Australia in Australia in series decider not good enough? He bowled well in that match too, getting Smith out and out bowling Lyon. True, he bowled poorly in the first game and his non selection for this one is justifiable, but that doesn't make him a bits and pieces cricketer! 

Thakur also played clutch innings and also took more clutch wickets. Does that make Thakur a regular bowler? Why stop at Sundar, why not play Thakur, Pandya and fill the team with these type of players.

 

 

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Just now, putrevus said:

What did he show? He can  handle the bat , so did Thakur and did more with ball also there..If Thakur had played  who knows, we would have won the first test with Thakur's allrounder greatness ?

That he can handle bounce much better at 21 and win away tests for India than Captain LOL could at the same age? A thinking captain would have promoted Sundar in the 2nd innings to make best use of his form and confidence but not our genius.

 

On Thakur playing, any sensible captain would always go for bowlers (players) in form. But captain LOL has only one criteria - seniority

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The thing is India wanted to go with three out and out wicket taking spin bowlers. Ashwin turns the ball into the batsmen and so does Sundar and Kuldeep. 

 

If India plays Kuldeep, then they have to drop Sundar.

 

If India plays Sundar, then they have to drop Kuldeep. It was unfair to drop Kuldeep for that long and not being picked even though so many names already tried. Hence, India went with Ashwin, Kuldeep and Axar. This strengthens our spin bowling and although it weakens batting a bit because Sundar is a better bat than Axar, the matches are won by your bowlers generally and hence the decision.

 

It maybe unfair on Sundar but same was the case with Siraj who took a fi-fer and got dropped in first test. So, Sundar's chance will come, it was just the balance because of which Axar was picked.

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15 minutes ago, Majestic said:

The thing is India wanted to go with three out and out wicket taking spin bowlers. Ashwin turns the ball into the batsmen and so does Sundar and Kuldeep. 

 

If India plays Kuldeep, then they have to drop Sundar.

 

If India plays Sundar, then they have to drop Kuldeep. It was unfair to drop Kuldeep for that long and not being picked even though so many names already tried. Hence, India went with Ashwin, Kuldeep and Axar. This strengthens our spin bowling and although it weakens batting a bit because Sundar is a better bat than Axar, the matches are won by your bowlers generally and hence the decision.

 

It maybe unfair on Sundar but same was the case with Siraj who took a fi-fer and got dropped in first test. So, Sundar's chance will come, it was just the balance because of which Axar was picked.

 

 

If we think from the point of view of the team  ... weakening the batting would be a big risk for this batting line-up.

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1 hour ago, putrevus said:

What did he show? He can  handle the bat , so did Thakur and did more with ball also there..If Thakur had played  who knows, we would have won the first test with Thakur's allrounder greatness ?

What is his average in two tests? Did any batsman coming at 7 had better average than him? We had few in the past, Dhoni, Raina, Yuvi?

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2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

If we think from the point of view of the team  ... weakening the batting would be a big risk for this batting line-up.

India's batting didn't lose them the last test, their bowling did. The match was lost by the time India took guard in the fourth inning. Spin bowling being the major culprit. Nadeem and Sundar were not even mere passengers, they actively sabotaged the team's chances leaking runs.

 

If you compare Axar and Sundar in terms of what they offer with both bat and ball, the former is a far more useful fit. A SLA who can (hopefully) provide control. I'll have to say the team management understands this acutely and hence the choice to go with Nadeem. This team absolutely needs a Jadeja like metronome. Hopefully Axar would be an upgrade over Nadeem.

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54 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

India's batting didn't lose them the last test, their bowling did. The match was lost by the time India took guard in the fourth inning. Spin bowling being the major culprit. Nadeem and Sundar were not even mere passengers, they actively sabotaged the team's chances leaking runs.

 

My impression is that we lost because of both bowling and batting.

 

Although the pitch was very flat in the first 5 sessions, we did give away 70 to100 more runs. 

 

One way to tackle this could have been ... not bowling Sundar and Nadeem in tandem at crucial junctures. And bringing on atleast one strike bowler every time a wicket fell.

 

And our batters could have scored 70 to 100 more in the 1st innings, given the pitch conditions and bowling.

 

 

Quote

 

If you compare Axar and Sundar in terms of what they offer with both bat and ball, the former is a far more useful fit. A SLA who can (hopefully) provide control. I'll have to say the team management understands this acutely and hence the choice to go with Nadeem. This team absolutely needs a Jadeja like metronome. Hopefully Axar would be an upgrade over Nadeem.

 

 

Agreed ... Jadeja would have solved many issues. If Axar comes across as a No.7 quality batsman and accurate bowler then he may make up somewhat.

 

Personally, I would have either selected Sundar over Kuldeep ... or chosen Shardul in place of one of the quicks to bolster our batting and played these 3 spinners. I know that none of this is ideal but making up for Jadeja isn't easy either 

 

Hopefully, Axar will come good.

 

 

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1 hour ago, sarchasm said:

Just look at Leach for England. The control he has provided and the threat he poses. This is exactly how Jadeja helped India stay in the game on flatbeds.

 

 

Jadeja is one of India's most under-rated test cricketers ever. 

 

He is like salt. His value is truly felt when he is not there.

Edited by express bowling
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4 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

Hes not, picking him for the first test was a mistake..not saying other replacements are any better but sundar as a pure batsmen is a big no . He's not that good 

Am not sure we know that yet.  In very challenging conditions, he has produced some beauties.  He has looked composed, compact and much more comfortable than many of the top-order guys.  He has played well against the old and new ball.  He needs to be looked at as a frontline batsman until he fails.  

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2 hours ago, SrinjayDutta said:

Remember sundar was not supposed to play the 1st test. His time will come.

Hopefully, TM has communicated well with him about the reasoning.  If I were in his place, I would've been very demoralized because there was reason to feel that I would do better than Rohit or Rahane.  Good thing they both played well, so he may not feel too bad.   

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28 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Am not sure we know that yet.  In very challenging conditions, he has produced some beauties.  He has looked composed, compact and much more comfortable than many of the top-order guys.  He has played well against the old and new ball.  He needs to be looked at as a frontline batsman until he fails.  

 

I dont see much wrong with his batting, but to play in Top6 of indian test team you need to have the ability score big hundreds(not that the current lot have that ability, but when we look at future prospects it should be mandatory) , am not sure hes shown that even in domestic. I do like his composure, still not sure his technique is sound . He has very little footwork, definitely not good enough to open in Tests..it all looks good when you are playing at 7-8 and when expectations are lower  

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8 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

 

I dont see much wrong with his batting, but to play in Top6 of indian test team you need to have the ability score big hundreds(not that the current lot have that ability, but when we look at future prospects it should be mandatory) , am not sure hes shown that even in domestic. I do like his composure, still not sure his technique is sound . He has very little footwork, definitely not good enough to open in Tests..it all looks good when you are playing at 7-8 and when expectations are lower  

True.  But he made an 85* under tough conditions that baffled most of the others.  He hasn't shown it in domestics because he has been pigeonholed early on as an LOI allrounder.  He got an opportunity just by being in the right-place-right-time, but he proved himself, and shouldn't be made to pay for his stroke of good luck.        

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43 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Am not sure we know that yet.  In very challenging conditions, he has produced some beauties.  He has looked composed, compact and much more comfortable than many of the top-order guys.  He has played well against the old and new ball.  He needs to be looked at as a frontline batsman until he fails.  

 

 

If I may add to it ... Sundar has sufficient time to play quick bowlers ... has a good idea where his off stump is ... plays the ball under his eyes ... has very definitive footwork ... can play both on the front foot and back foot ... can play both quick bowling as well as spin ... can play strokes all around the wicket  ... has a good temperament.

 

Looks like a near complete package as a batsman.

 

We need to support him even when he has a few failures, which is inevitable for everybody.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

True.  But he made an 85* under tough conditions that baffled most of the others.  He hasn't shown it in domestics because he has been pigeonholed early on as an LOI allrounder.  He got an opportunity just by being in the right-place-right-time, but he proved himself, and shouldn't be made to pay for his stroke of good luck.        

 

Sundar has scored a 150+ as an opener in Ranji Trophy.

 

That fact that he can bowl better than most batsmen has somehow gone against him for his state side. 

 

 

 

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Just now, express bowling said:

 

Sundar has scored a 150+ as an opener in Ranji Trophy.

 

That fact that he can bowl better than most batsmen has somehow gone against him for his state side. 

 

 

 

Rohit's top performance notwithstanding, I still think Sundar and Gill opening would've added some more flexibility to the team.  He could've slotted in as a Root-type bowler and picked up a wkt or two. 

 

Sundar, Gill, Pujara, Kohli, Pant, Rahane, Axar, Ashwin, Kuldeep, Ishant, Siraj  would've been my team.

 

Khair ... it is what it is and I was elated to see Rohit Sharma and Rahane succeed yesterday!!    

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5 hours ago, putrevus said:

Thakur also played clutch innings and also took more clutch wickets. Does that make Thakur a regular bowler? Why stop at Sundar, why not play Thakur, Pandya and fill the team with these type of players.

 

 

Thakur should play D/N match.  He can move it in the air and will pick up a few key wkts.  Plus, his cover drives .... oho aha ...

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