Yoda-esque Posted February 21, 2021 Posted February 21, 2021 PFI March in Tamil Nadu today but lemurians will not see that and call it once in a while occurrence lol These same hypocrites will come out and bleat fascism if it was RSS March.
ravishingravi Posted February 21, 2021 Posted February 21, 2021 32 minutes ago, Mariyam said: I don't know what laws France is trying to push. However, France has been an imperial power with centuries of history of suppressing natives. Of whatever faith. And the Muslims in France are essentially a few generations old. There could be legitimate problems with assimilation in that kind of a time span. I am not an expert on the French society, so I don't want to draw conclusions. Indian minorities have been Indian for centuries! The societal dynamic is simply not the same. What works for France *will not* work in India. We have to find our own solutions to our problems. All this talk of French law/ German Police/ Chinese Solution etc are just not apt for the India of today. Increasingly, I get the feeling, that NRIs have some strange dystopian view of Indian society. Like its a cleft state sitting on a powder keg. Just about to combust into a civil war. That is hardly the case. I have to agree with this to some extent. India is different and way more complicated. A simple western style secularism or regulations may not work here. It has to be more customised and nuanced here. The issue is that it’s a 15% vote bank. That’s a big carrot. One side is holding it tight and will try to keep it away from ruling party to the extent possible. It’s really last bastion. For the other side, the strategy is to use seclusion, coercion, infiltration and reach out to break through this base. Having said this, Kerala and TN are a major major tinderbox for Islamic radicalism. Also parts of south Karnataka.
Mariyam Posted February 21, 2021 Posted February 21, 2021 Just now, PunterLog said: Extremists even if they are 5-10% are enough to create chaos particularly in the Islamic community as the remaining 90% never stops the 10%. Even in Kashmir during the Pandit exodus, most Kashmiris Muslims weren't involved but they remained silent and a few % of extremists did the job. Islam is the only religion where I've noticed that the moderates never go against the extremists. You'll see Hindu moderates going after hardline Hindus but I've never seen Moderates in Islam do that. It's due to this behavior of moderate Muslims that many non-Muslims believe that there's no such thing as a moderate Muslim. I'm lost. What has this to do with Madrassa education in the country? Of course what happened with the Pandits is wrong. Who is denying that? Its a shame that a community is a refugee in their own nation. For 30+ years. But is that your template to judge millions of Muslims in India? I mean, even if one were to the accept the percentages that you quote at face value, do you expect the unarmed majority to confront the terrorists? I do remember reading stories about neighbours hiding Kashmiri Hindus. And also stories about neighbours letting the terrorists know that the Kashmiri Hindus are about to escape etc. And later occupying their homes. Make of it what you will. Look, there are tons of cases ( literally court cases too!) of Muslims going on against the extremists . Who, for instance, do you think have been litigating for Shah Bano since 1985? I could go on and on. Also you are just throwing around adjectives easily, "extremists/ moderates" etc and percentages. Those numbers are pure conjecture and what does one even debate there? The idea eventually is to defeat a mindset. Or push it to the fringe. Not to punish a motley collection of sample extremists and definitely not to punish someone for extremist 'thoughtcrime'.
PunterLog Posted February 21, 2021 Author Posted February 21, 2021 13 minutes ago, Mariyam said: I'm lost. What has this to do with Madrassa education in the country? Of course what happened with the Pandits is wrong. Who is denying that? Its a shame that a community is a refugee in their own nation. For 30+ years. But is that your template to judge millions of Muslims in India? I mean, even if one were to the accept the percentages that you quote at face value, do you expect the unarmed majority to confront the terrorists? I do remember reading stories about neighbours hiding Kashmiri Hindus. And also stories about neighbours letting the terrorists know that the Kashmiri Hindus are about to escape etc. And later occupying their homes. Make of it what you will. Look, there are tons of cases ( literally court cases too!) of Muslims going on against the extremists . Who, for instance, do you think have been litigating for Shah Bano since 1985? I could go on and on. Also you are just throwing around adjectives easily, "extremists/ moderates" etc and percentages. Those numbers are pure conjecture and what does one even debate there? The idea eventually is to defeat a mindset. Or push it to the fringe. Not to punish a motley collection of sample extremists and definitely not to punish someone for extremist 'thoughtcrime'. Madrasa education was 1 point or suggestion I made. Do you think getting religious education in a Madrasa instead of getting educated in a regular school does good for the kid? A Madrasa in Uttarakhand had 200,000 fake students enrolled in order to get funds from the government. Where were these funds being directed to? Madrasas have time and again been exposed for having links with extremist elements. When Samuel Paty was beheaded in France, Indian Muslims took out huge rallies condemning Macron's statement about Islam being in crisis. Were there any rallies taken by moderate Indian Muslims condemning the beheading? What % of Indian Muslims believe that a person who insults Muhammad should be killed? You are living in a fools paradise if you think the average Indian Muslim isn't radicalized compared to people from other religions.
kepler37b Posted February 21, 2021 Posted February 21, 2021 (edited) 59 minutes ago, PunterLog said: Extremists even if they are 5-10% are enough to create chaos particularly in the Islamic community as the remaining 90% never stops the 10%. Even in Kashmir during the Pandit exodus, most Kashmiri Muslims weren't involved but they remained silent and a few % of extremists did the job. Islam is the only religion where I've noticed that the moderates never go against the extremists. You'll see Hindu moderates going after hardline Hindus but I've never seen moderates in Islam do that. It's due to this behavior of moderate Muslims that many non-Muslims believe that there's no such thing as a moderate Muslim. They are either complicit criminals or too terrified of violent barbarians in their faith. More and more of the world is moving to former opinion. Edited February 21, 2021 by kepler37b PunterLog and Laaloo 2
PunterLog Posted February 21, 2021 Author Posted February 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, kepler37b said: The entire ideology is aimed at violent subjugation and then destruction of other faiths and cultures. The extremists are the offense and moderates are the defense who provide all the cover the extremists need. I've never seen moderate Muslims openly condemn or take out rallies against Islamic extremism.
kepler37b Posted February 21, 2021 Posted February 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, PunterLog said: The extremists are the offense and moderates are the defense who provide all the cover the extremists need. I've never seen moderate Muslims openly condemn or take out rallies against Islamic extremism. They will definitely come out to oppose whatever Modi does. PunterLog 1
Vilander Posted February 21, 2021 Posted February 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Mariyam said: 16-18% of the Indian population Nope Muslims are not 18% of india lol. Not that numerous.. but yeah uighur model should not be done any where even if it works since its persecution. On the flip side apparently in me Hindus can't have their idols even in gift shops seeing that Indians make up some 30 odd percentage of use for instance i wonder how pathetically biased Muslims are when it comes to their own people doing shot like this. Indwin 1
Mariyam Posted February 22, 2021 Posted February 22, 2021 22 hours ago, Vilander said: Nope Muslims are not 18% of india lol. Not that numerous.. but yeah uighur model should not be done any where even if it works since its persecution. On the flip side apparently in me Hindus can't have their idols even in gift shops seeing that Indians make up some 30 odd percentage of use for instance i wonder how pathetically biased Muslims are when it comes to their own people doing shot like this. me= Middle East? Why is the situation in the Middle East any benchmark for us Indians? Since when is that part of the world the epitome of liberal and tolerant behaviour? That said I've been to Dubai/Abu Dhabi a few times and never found that place to be intolerant. But then again, most people I came across in Dubai were Indians/Western people and some Pakistanis. Not sure if I met any Emiratean or whatever they are called at all, besides the immigration officers. Anyways, why judge Muslims in India based on how some Arabs treat non Muslims in their country? I don't get your point here. Who are their own people? Since when are Arabs 'their' own people for Muslims of India? What are you even saying? EnterTheVoid 1
Mariyam Posted February 22, 2021 Posted February 22, 2021 On 2/21/2021 at 11:42 PM, PunterLog said: (1)Madrasa education was 1 point or suggestion I made. Do you think getting religious education in a Madrasa instead of getting educated in a regular school does good for the kid? A Madrasa in Uttarakhand had 200,000 fake students enrolled in order to get funds from the government. Where were these funds being directed to? Madrasas have time and again been exposed for having links with extremist elements. (2)When Samuel Paty was beheaded in France, Indian Muslims took out huge rallies condemning Macron's statement about Islam being in crisis. Were there any rallies taken by moderate Indian Muslims condemning the beheading? (3)What % of Indian Muslims believe that a person who insults Muhammad should be killed? You are living in a fools paradise if you think the average Indian Muslim isn't radicalized compared to people from other religions. Your argument is all over the place. 1) Most kids who go to madrassas do so because they can't afford anything else. And in many places, the unfortunate reality is that Madrassas care for the students better than the local municipal schools. Also you have some serious misconceptions about Madrassa schools. Madrassas have to offer secular education also to get affiliation. Like I mentioned some posts ago, no affiliation means no funding. 2) Most editorials in the Urdu press (here in Mumbai) condemned the murder of the French teacher. 3) I don't know what these numbers are. Do you?
mishra Posted February 22, 2021 Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) IMO, if you fix Imams, you can fix the community. Imams are running parallel legal system in community. Thats is true for west, not so true for India and its Imams are far behind on that curve. First generation Educated Pakistani Muslims behave better than ones born here. For example, most Muslims are opposing Corona vaccination in UK. Why, because Imam has said so. But why same Imam doesn’t oppose vaccine in ME. I don’t know. May be rulers there put a danda for Imam or Imams aren’t fit in democracy Ias they automatically become local leader Edited February 22, 2021 by mishra coffee_rules 1
Vilander Posted February 22, 2021 Posted February 22, 2021 3 hours ago, Mariyam said: me= Middle East? Why is the situation in the Middle East any benchmark for us Indians? Since when is that part of the world the epitome of liberal and tolerant behaviour? That said I've been to Dubai/Abu Dhabi a few times and never found that place to be intolerant. But then again, most people I came across in Dubai were Indians/Western people and some Pakistanis. Not sure if I met any Emiratean or whatever they are called at all, besides the immigration officers. Anyways, why judge Muslims in India based on how some Arabs treat non Muslims in their country? I don't get your point here. Who are their own people? Since when are Arabs 'their' own people for Muslims of India? What are you even saying? Emirati or what ever they are are 18pc its rest of moslems from ind pak bd that are intolerant. They are intolerant where ever they are in majority. In pak they will rape and convert non muslim girls in bd they will persecute kill Hindus in India in isolated pockets there is hate preached. Muslims need to look inward and find a resolution, and not fight with everyone else everywhere. There will be crazies in the other side that only are too happy to play ball. Ranvir and PunterLog 2
Vilander Posted February 22, 2021 Posted February 22, 2021 3 hours ago, Mariyam said: don't know what these numbers are. Do you? I pulled accurately from my rear that the % is close to 99%
PunterLog Posted February 25, 2021 Author Posted February 25, 2021 On 2/23/2021 at 12:05 AM, Mariyam said: Anyways, why judge Muslims in India based on how some Arabs treat non Muslims in their country? I don't get your point here. Who are their own people? Since when are Arabs 'their' own people for Muslims of India? What are you even saying? I agree with your point here. Muslims in India should be judged by the way they treat Hindus in Muslim majority areas like Kashmir, Mewat etc Ranvir 1
PunterLog Posted February 25, 2021 Author Posted February 25, 2021 On 2/23/2021 at 3:34 AM, Vilander said: I pulled accurately from my rear that the % is close to 99% He knows the % will be extremely high but will dodge the question asking for proof knowing fully well that such surveys haven't been conducted in India.
PunterLog Posted February 25, 2021 Author Posted February 25, 2021 SDPI workers hack a RSS guy to death. Keep ignoring Islamist rallies and a civil war will be inevitable.
Gollum Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) 22 yo brutally hacked to death. 8 PFI/SDPI workers arrested. ISIS supporters (endorsed by ex-VP Hamid Ansari) celebrating 100 years of Moplah genocide in style. Edited February 25, 2021 by Gollum
Yoda-esque Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 Whatever is happening in WB and kerala is a nice little preview of the art of the possible.. Another example that being literate doesn't necessarily being well educated. PunterLog 1
PunterLog Posted February 25, 2021 Author Posted February 25, 2021 17 minutes ago, Yoda-esque said: Whatever is happening in WB and kerala is a nice little preview of the art of the possible.. Another example that being literate doesn't necessarily being well educated. We already have Indian Muslims saying why are Indian Muslims judged based on what happens in the Middle East, Pakistan, Bangladesh? After Kerala and West Bengal, we'll have Muslims in other states asking why are Indian Muslims judged based on what's happening in Kerala and West Bengal. It's up to Hindus to wake up from this secularism scam. Ranvir 1
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