Ashwin Vs Kumble- Who is India's greatest spinner?

[vvvslaxman]

On 2/27/2021 at 5:17 PM, Singh bling said:

Ashwin is playing in era where test cricket is declined drastically especially good player of spin. SL is no longer SL that had many quality batsman who can play spin. We don't play Pakistan. Australia is going west indies way can't even win at home. Quota has killed cricket in SA. Only England and NZ are teams that have maintained consistency or improved. But still they don't have any batsmen which are considered good against spin.

 

He dismissed Sangakkara 4 times in a row. He is probabaly one of the finest player against spin i have ever seen

[vvvslaxman]

On 2/28/2021 at 9:38 AM, Majestic said:

The atmosphere and hype around your final series is different and you don't have pressure of performing at the same level as it is at your peak.

 

That is just a made up excuse. Your ability against spin suddenly won't dwindle.

[Singh bling]

19 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

He dismissed Sangakkara 4 times in a row. He is probabaly one of the finest player against spin i have ever seen

That  was 38 year old Sangkara's last two tests. He did not even played full series. 

[vijaydude]

9 minutes ago, Singh bling said:

That  was 38 year old Sangkara's last two tests. He did not even played full series. 

 

Sangakkara during 2015 excluding his last, the Indian series:

 

 

Sangakkara during his final few years, at 34+ was this good:

 

[Nikola]

Sangakkara had pretty avg series against pak month before he played against india. He played 2 matches in that series vs pakistan and 2 against india & both were at same ground (galle & colombo)

 

His scores in that series were: 50, 18, 34, 0 (Yasir shah got him out twice)

Against India he scored: 5, 40, 32, 18 (Ashwin got him all time)

 

So can't say if he was in top form back then but again to get someone 4 out of 4 times is not easy task in their home conditions.

 

Edit: Nvm someone posted whole stats up.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Nikola

[Vilander]

Kumble bowled in a time where he was Indias premier bowler giving break throughs and stopping the opposition. Ashwin is definitely second fiddle to Indian pace group outside India in India Ashwin has Jadeja who is his equal to share the spoils. Kumble has Harbhajan but Harbhajan was second fiddle most of the time except those series against Aus. 

 

Kumble > Ashwin > Harbhajan looks like. But ashwin might do well in his last years and might close in on Kumble a little more.

[Vilander]

23 minutes ago, Nikola said:

Sangakkara had pretty avg series against pak month before he played against india. He played 2 matches in that series vs pakistan and 2 against india & both were at same ground (galle & colombo)

 

His scores in that series were: 50, 18, 34, 0 (Yasir shah got him out twice)

Against India he scored: 5, 40, 32, 18 (Ashwin got him all time)

 

So can't say if he was in top form back then but again to get someone 4 out of 4 times is not easy task in their home conditions.

 

Edit: Nvm someone posted whole stats up.

Ashwin has habit of going after oppositions hero batsman, he does this repeatedly. Sachin used to do reverse , go after opposition hero bowler.. this is the **** where you go kill the leader/hero of opposing army to get them to loose morale.

[Singh bling]

28 minutes ago, vijaydude said:

 

Sangakkara during 2015 excluding his last, the Indian series:

 

 

Sangakkara during his final few years, at 34+ was this good:

 

If you are as good as Sangkarra and there is hardly any youngster pushing you but still you decide to quit then it means you have sensed that something is wrong with you .38 years of age and last series is last series. Still it was good achievement for Ashwin to get him out four times

[Vilander]

7 hours ago, Singh bling said:

Andy flower along with some support

Andy flower was one of the best batsmen of spin at that time, Zim was a weak team but Andy was world class. He scored century a big one. 

[Singh bling]

1 minute ago, Vilander said:

Andy flower was one of the best batsmen of spin at that time, Zim was a weak team but Andy was world class. He scored century a big one. 

Andy flower had 97 run 10 th wicket partnership with Olonga in 1st test and in second test zim was 503/6 . so other batsmen were also supporting him.

 

And if I am not wrong it was after this series Andy flower got famous 

[vvvslaxman]

Kumble had his own share of dust bowls. Probably the most bowler friendly conditions especially in the 90s. He was definitely considered a strike force by the captains both in India and away unlike Dhoni who used him as a containing bowler overseas.

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Kumble had his own share of dust bowls. Probably the most bowler friendly conditions especially in the 90s. He was definitely considered a strike force by the captains both in India and away unlike Dhoni who used him as a containing bowler overseas.

 

Dhoni used him ??? dhoni became captain only when kumble retired

[ShoonyaSifar]

7 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Kumble had his own share of dust bowls. Probably the most bowler friendly conditions especially in the 90s. He was definitely considered a strike force by the captains both in India and away unlike Dhoni who used him as a containing bowler overseas.

Name a few of them other than Mumbai 2004. Those were mostly typical Indian pitches, good for batting in first 3 days and then deteriorating

 

In fact the highways Kumble had to bowl on in the late 90s and mid-2000s haven't been seen in our cricket in the last 8-10 years

Edited March 2, 2021 by ShoonyaSifar

[vvvslaxman]

25 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Name a few of them other than Mumbai 2004. Those were mostly typical Indian pitches, good for batting in first 3 days and then deteriorating

 

In fact the highways Kumble had to bowl on in the late 90s and mid-2000s haven't been seen in our cricket in the last 8-10 years

Entire 1990s upto 1999 were tailor made for Kumble.

[vvvslaxman]

 

Extremely dry wickets where ball occasionally would go under the bat.

[Gollum]

Kumble as of now, things may change by this time next year....we'll have completed a tour to Eng, RSA each. 

[Gollum]

Ashwin is ok against RHBs, nothing great. Against LHBs he is the greatest ever, pacer or spinner nobody even comes close. He averages 30-31 against RHBs and 18-19 against LHBs.

 

Since most top 7s are RHB dominated I prefer Kumble. Ashwin is using his strengths these days, he has given up trying to imitate the Lyon line of attack, he isn't that kind of bowler. So he is trying to attack both edges of the bat with a much straighter line, so pitch is out of the equation and he can't exploit the rough. But all his subtleties like change of pace, drift, variations come into play. Let us how this new method does in future matches, especially overseas tours. One thing is clear, with the new line of attack, he doesn't rely much on the pitch since rough is created rather wide of the stumps. 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Gollum

[vvvslaxman]

In terms of sheer skills, variations he is cut above everyone India ever produced.  Kumble was averaging 27 till 2000 with great support from dry pitches. Post 2000 he averaged 31. In the last 5 years averaged 35. One of the reason batsmen found it progressively easier to negate Kumble was because he was basically not a big turner. He was treated like an inswing bowler who could occasionally hold the ball up. There was not a lot of variations in the bag of Kumble other than subtle speed variation. His strength was accuracy at pace.  But that was also his enemy. He became predictable. Apart from the one match where he did bowl seam up on day 5 pitch he didn't employ many variations besides the most basic speed variation. I disagree he would have done better than Ashwin if he had bowled in the current era.  Ashwin is blessed with a lot more variations. Guile. Skill. He is also one of the most over-exposed bowler thanks to IPL. 

[Suhaan]

Ashwin used to bowl those carrom balls ver early in his career ,remember those days when they used to say India has its own answer to Ajantha Mendis

 

But all these years he has completely left it,and hasn't bowl one in recent times,maybe it puts a good amount of pressure on fingers and being a finger spinner he has rightfully left it

[vvvslaxman]

16 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Ashwin used to bowl those carrom balls ver early in his career ,remember those days when they used to say India has its own answer to Ajantha Mendis

 

But all these years he has completely left it,and hasn't bowl one in recent times,maybe it puts a good amount of pressure on fingers and being a finger spinner he has rightfully left it

 

Ollie pope's dismissals in both the innings look like carrom ball. It is not doosra for sure. It landed on the middle and kissed the offstump.