Why do India's test bowlers have a much better record under Kohli's captaincy compared to Dhoni or others

[rangeelaraja]

 

Better guidance by the coaching staff ? 

Better support from Kohli ? 

or they just got better with experience ? 

 

This is THE reason why India has become so formidable in tests - even away. 

 

Bowler's performance has gone up several notches under Kohli ( maybe except Umesh that has not changed much )

 

Ishant Test Bowling record:

 

*MS Dhoni	2008-2014	47	84	1649.5	304	5572	152	7/74	10/108	36.65	3.37	65.1	5	1	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
*R Dravid	2007-2007	1	2	13.0	2	49	1	1/19	1/49	49.00	3.76	78.0	0	0	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
*V Kohli	2014-2021	40	74	1035.3	235	2885	113	5/22	9/78	25.53	2.78	54.9	5	0	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
*A Kumble	2007-2008	9	14	280.4	55	912	24	5/118	7/117	38.00	3.24	70.1	1	0	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
*AM Rahane	2018-2018	1	2	12.0	2	45	4	2/17	4/45	11.25	3.75	18.0	0	0	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
*V Sehwag	2009-2012	3	5	93.0	18	317	9	3/48	5/95	35.22	3.40	62.0	0	0

 

Ashwin Test bowling record: 

 

*MS Dhoni	2011-2014	22	40	1087.4	218	3136	109	7/103	12/85	28.77	2.88	59.8	9	2	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
*V Kohli	2015-2021	51	96	2259.2	470	6279	279	7/59	13/140	22.50	2.77	48.5	21	5	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif

 

 

Jadeja Test bowling record: 

 

*MS Dhoni	2012-2014	12	22	570.4	144	1367	45	6/138	7/98	30.37	2.39	76.0	2	0	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
*V Kohli	2015-2020	35	68	1535.3	388	3763	158	7/48	10/154	23.81	2.45	58.3	7	1	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
*AM Rahane	2017-2021	4	7	83.2	21	221	17	4/17	6/35	13.00	2.65	29.4	0	0	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif

 

 

Shami Test Bowling record:

*MS Dhoni	2013-2014	10	19	377.0	55	1392	38	5/47	9/118	36.63	3.69	59.5	1	0	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
*V Kohli	2014-2020	40	76	1122.5	220	3574	142	6/56	7/58	25.16	3.18	47.4	4	0	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif

 

 

Umesh Yadav Test Bowling record:

MS Dhoni	2011-2014	10	18	305.0	36	1247	40	5/93	7/103	31.17	4.08	45.7	1	0	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
*V Kohli	2015-2020	34	68	880.4	168	2929	96	6/88	10/133	30.51	3.32	55.0	2	1	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
*AM Rahane	2017-2020	3	6	53.3	8	186	10	3/26	5/98	18.60	3.47	32.1	0	0	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
*V Sehwag	2012-2012	1	2	31.0	1	159	2	1/23	2/159	79.50	5.12	93.0	0	0

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by rangeelaraja

[Vilander]

unrelated - why india has so few bowlers as captain. Only Kumble , there should be more. 

[sandeep]

Bowlers hunt not just in pairs, but in packs.  India had a perennial hole for the 3rd pace bowler, until the last couple of years.  Once the overall unit got stronger, everybody's numbers improved.  

 

Bowlers like Ishant, Shami, and Yadav have made massive personal improvements in their control, accuracy and bowling methods - the lines and lengths they execute.  All of this has happened independent of who happened to be captain at the time.  

 

The one thing test captain Virat gets full credit for, is the decision to play 5 bowlers whenever possible.  That was a major improvement in Indian test cricket tactics.  Dhoni was a good LOI skipper, but because of his personal views, or maybe because of being scarred with a lot of losses early in his captaincy, he was always a defensive captain when it came to bowling.  

[Ankit_sharma03]

Kyunki Janta ko Adha gyaan hai isliye 

Cut short- only credit u cud give him is to get them focussed on fitness, rest all of them came at their peak together with great fitness. All of them at peak hunting in pair 

[vvvslaxman]

Dhoni had the habit of telling them what ball to bowl. I think it should be left to the bowlers. He literally told Ishant to bowl bouncers. It was almost like he forgot his inswing under Dhoni. He took wickets alright. But he sporadically used inswingers for a period of time. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

The one thing test captain Virat gets full credit for, is the decision to play 5 bowlers whenever possible.

that also started under dhoni 

We started playing binny n jaddu under dhoni only as with pujara, kohli, rahane, dhawan, rohit, vijay we lacked part timers. Also Bowling long spell on SA n NZ tour in 2013-14 played a role in this call. 

Kohli also hardly went for complete 5 bowlers- he mostly have gone for all rounder and jaddu by now is far more developed in terms of batting then he was under dhoni 

[Majestic]

Fitness management credit must be given to Kohli baaki all credit goes to bowlers.

[rangeelaraja]

16 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Fitness management credit must be given to Kohli baaki all credit goes to bowlers.

 

 

And Bharat Arun ? 

 

Don't know if he was around at the time of Dhoni ?

 

I do know that Shastri thinks he is indispensable.

[Majestic]

Just now, rangeelaraja said:

 

 

And Bharat Arun ? 

 

Don't know if he was around at the time of Dhoni ?

 

I do know that Shastri thinks he is indispensable.

Yeah Bharat Arun was key in the transformation.

[Nash]

Dhoni was restrictive captain, kohli is aggressive. Fast bowler by default required aggression and kohli is source of it. 

 

[mani sha]

India has more fast bowlers and spinners to choose from due to ipl , ranji etc . Kohli has 4 times. More choices . 
 

this has translated into 5 bowler theory . Prior captains had at max three fit fast bowlers amd one decent spinner who could last a whole series . 
 

you guys have very short memories . Remember how sreenath broke his right shoulder due to excessive bowling ? He had dodda Ganesh as his support crew lol 

 

Also kohli has immensely benifit es from bharat arun . 
 

kohli is a great batsman in odi , avg in t20 and ok in tests . Give above bowling unit to sharma or ganguly and we would be winning in South Africa too 

 

kohli to his credit has one thing - positivity in test cricket . He is not afraid to chase and that confidence does help . And second thing is fitness . Kohli legacy is not captaincy but extreme fitness standards and chasing cleverly with aggression in tests 

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, Majestic said:

Fitness management credit must be given to Kohli baaki all credit goes to bowlers.

 

Bit more freedom was all they needed. If a captain treats every bowler in his team as an attacking option that is all you need to do. More freedom. When zaheer was around , he guided the other bowlers like Sreesanth, Irfan, Balaji. But after Zaheer it was Dhoni that controlled it.

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, Nash said:

Dhoni was restrictive captain, kohli is aggressive. Fast bowler by default required aggression and kohli is source of it. 

 

 

I remember his 1-8 field against Australia where Australia made 167 runs or so in the entire day.

[The Realist]

Dhoni wasn't that fussed with tests, his passion was in limited overs cricket and marshalling the spinners with expertise and being able to defend.

 

Hence Dhoniconda eats the Rat @velu

 

[Vijy]

4 hours ago, sandeep said:

Bowlers hunt not just in pairs, but in packs.  India had a perennial hole for the 3rd pace bowler, until the last couple of years.  Once the overall unit got stronger, everybody's numbers improved.  

 

Bowlers like Ishant, Shami, and Yadav have made massive personal improvements in their control, accuracy and bowling methods - the lines and lengths they execute.  All of this has happened independent of who happened to be captain at the time.  

 

The one thing test captain Virat gets full credit for, is the decision to play 5 bowlers whenever possible.  That was a major improvement in Indian test cricket tactics.  Dhoni was a good LOI skipper, but because of his personal views, or maybe because of being scarred with a lot of losses early in his captaincy, he was always a defensive captain when it came to bowling.  

basically this, in a nutshell

[Lone Wolf]

I remember dhoni had beyond Washed up Zaheer Khan & erratic Ishant & a rookie Shami (who looked best among them) for tours of SA & NZ in 2014..  Such was the state of affairs back then.  Even then we were very competitive with the bat there & almost won NZ series & that Joburg draw still hurts (I blame Ashwin there) 

[R!TTER]

15 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

He literally told Ishant to bowl bouncers.

Yeah sadly Ishant's still a *ing dumbass!

[R!TTER]

5 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

almost won NZ series

Nah we'd have drawn at best, you can blame Brat for the series loss! Tried to pull a wide bouncer off Wagner when we were actually doing great in the chase & then second test dropped BMac en route to his triple  

 

Pretty sure that's when we started choking & haven't stopped just yet 

[Lone Wolf]

36 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Nah we'd have drawn at best, you can blame Brat for the series loss! Tried to pull a wide bouncer off Wagner when we were actually doing great in the chase & then second test dropped BMac en route to his triple  

 

Pretty sure that's when we started choking & haven't stopped just yet 

That's why Gabba test was a breath of Fresh air.  Finally one close contest went our way.  No surprise the cycle ended when kolli wasn't there. 

[R!TTER]

That's why I'd say looking overall at his career - unless he wins 2-3 major ICC trophies, he'd be a *ing failure in my eyes! We blame MS for the 2011-12 debacle, rightly so but Brat escapes scrutiny for his *ing stupidity in NZ & then England later in the year. Dhoni will get credit for not taking paternity/maternity leave right in the middle of the tour - Brat's just got down 2 pegs in my eyes for that & the slide doesn't look stopping anytime soon!