Vaccine theory

[ravishingravi]

 

[nevada]

https://in.news.yahoo.com/not-just-shortage-slow-inoculation-041055181.html

 

Initially, the Centre was procuring both vaccines at Rs 150 and supplying them to state governments and private hospitals. The private sector was allowed to charge Rs 100 per dose as vaccination charges. Private hospitals had agreed that Rs 100 would cover the cost of administering the vaccine. However, many hospitals are effectively charging Rs 250-300 per shot of Covishield as vaccination charges.

The cost of vaccine per inoculation at private hospitals ranges between Rs 700 to Rs 1,500.

 

Last week, a public interest litigation was been filed in the Bombay High Court challenging the different rates for COVID-19 vaccines for the Centre and state governments and requesting direction to the Serum Institute of India (SSI) and Bharat Biotech to sell their vaccines at a uniform rate of Rs 150 per dose.

 

Under the third phase of the national vaccination drive, the vaccine manufacturers are supplying 50 per cent of their monthly Central Drugs Laboratory (CDL) released doses to the central government and are free to supply the remaining 50 per cent doses to state governments and in the open market, the government had said.

“In a situation where the entire country is gripped with the COVID-19 pandemic, price control by the government is a must and such kind of loot and blackmail should not be permitted,” the PIL said.

 

;It further said that the cost difference would also lead to discrimination between different states.

“Experience shows that the BJP-led state governments would be supplied the vaccine by the Central government but non-BJP ruling states would not be supplied and they would be forced to purchase the vaccines at a higher rate,” the petitioners said.

[Real McCoy]

16 hours ago, poi said:

Being vaccinated doesn’t mean you won’t get covid or don’t spread it, but it will significantly reduce your hospitalization and death, at least for the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer/Moderna) against the original Chinese and UK variants. For the new Indian variants, they may or may not. 

Covid Vaccines are for individuals not getting sick, not overwhelm the limited hospital/icu beds, and not dying. Basically, covid vaccines turn you from potentially symptomatic carriers to likely asymptomatic ones. If you can, get the vaccine and have your loved ones get it as well.

 

16 hours ago, poi said:

Of course, “more” vaccinated people are getting covid. But unvaccinated people are dying en masse. Fully Vaccinated people dying is rare and their individual deaths are worldwide headlines. 

This is hilarious. Vaccination should protect the recipients from getting a disease not just from hospitalization and death. The second wave is reporting actual death tolls due to lack of oxygen than the "first one". This is an overwhelming consensus among Indians atleast and not a few anecdotal evidence as some others have suggested. And it started after the vaccines were deployed.

We had public gatherings even before kumbh mela and elections with people not follwoing social distancing and not wearing masks. We can only deduce that these people are getting the virus through the vaccines (which is true if you look up vaccination theory) and spreading it to other people. The old who are not vaccinated are dying because of this. I know of atleast 3 people in my distant family circle who have died in the past month.

One of them was admitted for a stroke within days of vaccination. He was a healthy man with no health problems not even hypertension. How did a man without hypertension get a stroke within a few days. When he was admitted, he was diagnosed as covid positive. Now his entire family is covid positive.

[rkt.india]

26 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

 

This is hilarious. Vaccination should protect the recipients from getting a disease not just from hospitalization and death. The second wave is reporting actual death tolls due to lack of oxygen than the "first one". This is an overwhelming consensus among Indians atleast and not a few anecdotal evidence as some others have suggested. And it started after the vaccines were deployed.

We had public gatherings even before kumbh mela and elections with people not follwoing social distancing and not wearing masks. We can only deduce that these people are getting the virus through the vaccines (which is true if you look up vaccination theory) and spreading it to other people. The old who are not vaccinated are dying because of this. I know of atleast 3 people in my distant family circle who have died in the past month.

One of them was admitted for a stroke within days of vaccination. He was a healthy man with no health problems not even hypertension. How did a man without hypertension get a stroke within a few days. When he was admitted, he was diagnosed as covid positive. Now his entire family is covid positive.

But covishield doesn't contain corona virus which has been given the most 

[Real McCoy]

19 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

But covishield doesn't contain corona virus which has been given the most 

That means its a placebo shot not a vaccine. Vaccination as per theory is that a controlled virus in the vaccine will create antibodies to the virus

 

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, Real McCoy said:

 

This is hilarious. Vaccination should protect the recipients from getting a disease not just from hospitalization and death. The second wave is reporting actual death tolls due to lack of oxygen than the "first one". This is an overwhelming consensus among Indians atleast and not a few anecdotal evidence as some others have suggested. And it started after the vaccines were deployed.

We had public gatherings even before kumbh mela and elections with people not follwoing social distancing and not wearing masks. We can only deduce that these people are getting the virus through the vaccines (which is true if you look up vaccination theory) and spreading it to other people. The old who are not vaccinated are dying because of this. I know of atleast 3 people in my distant family circle who have died in the past month.

One of them was admitted for a stroke within days of vaccination. He was a healthy man with no health problems not even hypertension. How did a man without hypertension get a stroke within a few days. When he was admitted, he was diagnosed as covid positive. Now his entire family is covid positive.

 

Correlation is not causation. There are millions and millions who did not die after vaccine. Besides there is no real established proven theory this is what causing it. Johnson and Johnson caused blood clots in 17 patients out of 8 million doses. Nobody died.  Yes there are some people who display allergic reaction. Many do even to other vaccines.  Some exhibit reaction to peanuts. Some reacts to Milk. Should we ban Milk/Peanuts?  I am not sure about India. But they did ask me what kind of medicine i am allergic to.

Also this stupid theory of vaccine shedding virus must be stopped by educated people. Not giving oxygen to such absurd theories. 

 

https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/what-is-vaccine-shedding-covid

 

 

[poi]

1 hour ago, Real McCoy said:

That means its a placebo shot not a vaccine. Vaccination as per theory is that a controlled virus in the vaccine will create antibodies to the virus

 

So how did the placebo shot give them the virus?

 

Also, you sound like an accomplished virologist from, say, 1810s.

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by poi

[coffee_rules]

2 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

That means its a placebo shot not a vaccine. Vaccination as per theory is that a controlled virus in the vaccine will create antibodies to the virus

 

Placebo shots are given in the trial period of the vaccination to compare the immunity responses to the vaccine and to prove it works better.

Once the vaccine is approved, nobody will get a placebo shot. 

[coffee_rules]

On 5/9/2021 at 9:04 AM, BacktoCricaddict said:

While I completely agree with the overall sentiment here, I think the communication issue is a valid one.  

 

Based on previous data and experience, they went with the 4-week gap for clinical trials.  Fair enough.  The thing is - it was working both in trials and real-world environment.  Then, serendipitously, they find out that 6 week, 8 week, 10 week gap also works in some cases.  While that may be the case anecdotally, there are no clear trial data for those gaps. 

 

So, no matter what, you stick with the 4-week gap as a matter of policy.  If there is vaccine shortage, you address it at the supply end, not by panicking and semi-arbitrarily changing gaps.  And this policy-making must be governed by an independent, apolitical, central/state agency led by experts with full govt backing.    

 

@urbestfriend is right about the confusion.  My mother was scheduled for her 2nd dose and 2 days prior got an SMS saying postponed by 2 weeks.  She is 77 y.o., had made arrangements to get help to go, mentally prepared to do so and boom ... wait two more weeks.  Just doesn't inspire confidence in the system.  

 

It's like in the US during the first wave, Fauci came out and said masks don't help.  Why?  Because there was a shortage of masks and hospital staff were not able to get them.  Fearing panic-buying, he said something with no evidence.  Then back-tracked, but his credibility was shot.  

 

 

Yes, it seems like this new "scientific" revelation of dosage interval is a constant "fixing" one. It was 4, weeks to now 8 weeks, to being a booster shot that can be taken any time. You should not let these two-bit journalists like Faye/Barkha to get some falana "expert" on their shows and proclaim they are the fifth veda. 

 

Many of the states are now giving priority to 18-44 age group now and are refusing to entertain these second-dosers because of such "science" facts. My mom went twice after 6 weeks to be refused a second dose in Bengaluru because a lot of 18-44 are dying. It is natural priority for them, not blaming them, but I hate these "experts" giving gyaan on matters they have no clue about.

[Vilander]

12 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

Vaccination should protect the recipients from getting a disease not just from hospitalization and death.

 

1,Infection 

2,Disease 

3,Disease leading to critical healthcare need. 

4,Death 

 

 

A vaccine can prevent 2 3 and 4 and it will considered effective. 

[poi]

 

20 minutes ago, Vilander said:

 

1,Infection 

2,Disease 

3,Disease leading to critical healthcare need. 

4,Death 

 

 

A vaccine can prevent 2 3 and 4 and it will considered effective. 

Anti vaxxers are so concerned to the point of speculating about “future” side effects (they have zero proof) of these new vaccines, but ignore the ultimate side effect of covid-19, which  is death while gasping for air.

 

Healthy skepticism is fine, but you need evidence. These so called skeptics have provided no valid reasons than speculation based on gut feeling and misinformation. We have hundreds of millions of people world wide already vaccinated with only handful of side effects except soreness and usual immune response. At this point, you would have better chances of dying in agony from covid unvaccinated and overwhelming medical resources that could be used for other diseases. 

Why worry about vaccines that have 90-95% efficacy in preventing death. Embrace modern  medicine because that is the only thing that manages this pandemic. Forget about preventing, focus on not dying. Everybody will be getting infected with multiple variants anyway since Covid-19 will be endemic. Better to be prepared and vaccinate now and ready for periodic booster shots.

[Vilander]

4 minutes ago, poi said:

Why worry about vaccines that have 90-95% efficacy in preventing death

Most of current vaccines except Chinese ones have 100% effectiveness in preventing death in clinical trials although in real world there are deaths. 

[Vilander]

12 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

Vaccination as per theory is that a controlled virus in the vaccine will create antibodies to the virus

Only viral vector vaccines. Not mRNA and other types. 

 

And virus are inevitable viral source dna has a percentage contribution to living species dna. 

[Vilander]

 

Eight percent of our DNA consists of remnants of ancient viruses, and another 40 percent is made up of repetitive strings of genetic letters that is also thought to have a viral origin

 

https://www.cshl.edu/the-non-human-living-inside-of-you/#:~:text=The human genome contains billions,to have a viral origin.

 

 

[poi]

4 minutes ago, Vilander said:

 

Eight percent of our DNA consists of remnants of ancient viruses, and another 40 percent is made up of repetitive strings of genetic letters that is also thought to have a viral origin

 

https://www.cshl.edu/the-non-human-living-inside-of-you/#:~:text=The human genome contains billions,to have a viral origin.

 

 

Good info. The reason mammals don’t lay eggs is also due to a viral infection in our past millions of years ago.

 

“These HIV lookalikes, dubbed endogenous
retroviruses or ERVs, are actually encoded in the DNA of every mammal. They
invaded cells during infections millions of years ago and liked it so much they
decided to stay. Most surprising of all, some researchers now argue that ERVs
may have played a starring role in the evolution of mammalian life and its
crowning achievement—live birth. “

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg16221904-800-why-we-dont-lay-eggs/#ixzz6uW2haJur

[vvvslaxman]

55 minutes ago, poi said:

 

Anti vaxxers are so concerned to the point of speculating about “future” side effects (they have zero proof) of these new vaccines, but ignore the ultimate side effect of covid-19, which  is death while gasping for air.

 

Healthy skepticism is fine, but you need evidence. These so called skeptics have provided no valid reasons than speculation based on gut feeling and misinformation. We have hundreds of millions of people world wide already vaccinated with only handful of side effects except soreness and usual immune response. At this point, you would have better chances of dying in agony from covid unvaccinated and overwhelming medical resources that could be used for other diseases. 

Why worry about vaccines that have 90-95% efficacy in preventing death. Embrace modern  medicine because that is the only thing that manages this pandemic. Forget about preventing, focus on not dying. Everybody will be getting infected with multiple variants anyway since Covid-19 will be endemic. Better to be prepared and vaccinate now and ready for periodic booster shots.

 

Every single anti vaxxers in India would have received vaccine when they were young.  They don't grasp the concept of maximizing their chance of surviving the pandemic. 

[rkt.india]

14 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

That means its a placebo shot not a vaccine. Vaccination as per theory is that a controlled virus in the vaccine will create antibodies to the virus

 

No, it doesn't work like that. Covishield is an adenovirus vaccine which also contains spike protein of the corona virus. It doesn't contain whole corona virus. Sputnik is similar. J&J contains cold virus that generate antibodies against corona virus. Covaxin contains whole corona virus.

[urbestfriend]

9 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Every single anti vaxxers in India would have received vaccine when they were young.  They don't grasp the concept of maximizing their chance of surviving the pandemic. 

In india there are no anti vaxxers like in west. 

But many are skeptical of the efficacy of this..

IN history of mankind, it has never happened that we are vaccinating billions of people , but vaccine is tested for less than an year. 

We dont understand the safety, efficacy and long term side effects of it. Yet we're asked to believe and get vaccinated. This is not same as vaccines which are time tested. 

 

 

[Jimmy Cliff]

1 hour ago, urbestfriend said:

In india there are no anti vaxxers like in west. 

But many are skeptical of the efficacy of this..

IN history of mankind, it has never happened that we are vaccinating billions of people , but vaccine is tested for less than an year. 

We dont understand the safety, efficacy and long term side effects of it. Yet we're asked to believe and get vaccinated. This is not same as vaccines which are time tested. 

 

 

 

Shut up anti vaxxer and just tRuSt the sCiEnCe.

[ravishingravi]

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