Are the Indian youngsters overrated

[express bowling]

10 hours ago, maniac said:

Disagree on Shaw. Scoring cameos opening against this line up and no visible improvement in fielding or fitness. Some checks have to be made. He should have scored some daddy 100’s here. 

 

 

1.  On the one hand we want LOI openers who will give us blazing starts. On the other hand we are unhappy if daddy hundreds don't come. 

 

IMHO, it can't work both ways.

 

2.  Before this series, Shaw had played just 3 ODIs.  Give him time ... let him play 25+ ODIs ... and see what happens.

 

The main thing is ... Shaw is very different from most other top 4 batmen we have got in India. He will always play at a high SR which is so essential in white ball cricket these days.

 

The fact that we get angry with the approaches of Shaw and Hardik is why we get the stats padders in LOIs.

 

@sarchasm can add to this issue.

 

[express bowling]

11 hours ago, Lord said:

 

Paddikal and Varun arent average. Varun will do well in T20s

 

 

I missed Padikkal because he did not get a single game even.

 

Should have played ahead of Pandey and batted at 3.

 

He is a top class talent.

 

Varun C type of mystery bowlers usually become average after the novelty factor wears off.

[express bowling]

11 hours ago, SK_IH said:

You missed Deepak Chahar, he will push Bhuvi for a slot in the main XI

 

 

Till now, Chahar has not done well in any format apart from T20s. And he is already 28.

 

He averages 37 in ODIs, 35 in FC and 28 in List A.

 

While Bhuvi has been a proper low average FC bowler ... which shows that his bowling basics are all right.

 

D.Chahar should be considered for T20s only.

[Vk1]

22 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I missed Padikkal because he did not get a single game even.

 

Should have played ahead of Pandey and batted at 3.

 

He is a top class talent.

 

Varun C type of mystery bowlers usually become average after the novelty factor wears off.

by the time his novelty wears off he can win us a world cup.

[express bowling]

6 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

by the time his novelty wears off he can win us a world cup.

 

 

First let him play a few international matches to see where he stands.

[Majestic]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

1.  On the one hand we want LOI openers who will give us blazing starts. On the other hand we are unhappy if daddy hundreds don't come. 

 

IMHO, it can't work both ways.

 

2.  Before this series, Shaw had played just 3 ODIs.  Give him time ... let him play 25+ ODIs ... and see what happens.

 

The main thing is ... Shaw is very different from most other top 4 batmen we have got in India. He will always play at a high SR which is so essential in white ball cricket these days.

 

The fact that we get angry with the approaches of Shaw and Hardik is why we get the stats padders in LOIs.

 

@sarchasm can add to this issue.

 

SKY is not a stat padder. We can drop Pandya for couple of games for SKY just to send him a message that he can't be complacent enough and decide when to bowl and when not on his terms.

[express bowling]

13 minutes ago, Majestic said:

SKY is not a stat padder. We can drop Pandya for couple of games for SKY just to send him a message that he can't be complacent enough and decide when to bowl and when not on his terms.

 

Not talking about SKY as a stats padder. He is quite the opposite.

 

Stats padders are Dhawan, Rohit, Kohli.  And in T20s sometimes Rahul.

[CodeOfWisden]

12 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Shaw, SKY, Kishan, Chahars, Samson to an extent - that's 6 players from this team who can easily replace our LOI regulars and do better.  I even liked Sakariya. Doesn't have the speed but has the skills. Not bad to have such bowlers in your reserve pool.

 

Kuldeep and Chahal should not have been picked.

Saini was disappointing.

Gowtham and Rana clearly looked under pressure on their debut. Can happen to the best.

 

 

 

Shaw, Sky and Kishan are good but please don't include Samson and Chahars, you are not the only one who watches cricket here.

What's with this undying support for youngsters however mediocre they might be? 

Chahar is not a better bowler than Bumrah, Bhuvi, Shami, Siraj, Natarajan and he's not a better oackage than Shardul he will get spanked by top teams on flat tracks more often than not. 

Sakariya looked like a trundler from the 90s, really no talent at all, you are trying to sell us these players just bcoz they are young. This does not make any sense at all. 

[CodeOfWisden]

Samson 27 (has played 5 6 seasons of ipl) after having so much of experience we should expect him to have michael Hussey or Rizwan level of temperament but no he hasn't improved at all, all that talent and no application. 

[CodeOfWisden]

Suryakumar Yadav is someone who actually has learned something from his years of experience in domestics and Ipl. That guy is our Michael Hussey, Shaw is very talented and he actually has time to improve unlike Samson so we should have him in our team, same goes for Kishan. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

2.  Before this series, Shaw had played just 3 ODIs.  Give him time ... let him play 25+ ODIs ... and see what happens.

25+ odi is also less, i feel all these guys shud be passed a judgement on after 60+ odd games 

 

Process shud be identify a player and then have patience for that  big a duration coz u cnt give that to all. U need to identify right players and shaw is one . 

Shaw will fail in future also n ppl have knack of going cuckoo in few games, even guys like Rohit n dhawan failed in 1st NZ n Sa tour that to white ball cricket

[ShoonyaSifar]

1 hour ago, CodeOfWisden said:

Shaw, Sky and Kishan are good but please don't include Samson and Chahars, you are not the only one who watches cricket here.

What's with this undying support for youngsters however mediocre they might be? 

Chahar is not a better bowler than Bumrah, Bhuvi, Shami, Siraj, Natarajan and he's not a better oackage than Shardul he will get spanked by top teams on flat tracks more often than not. 

Sakariya looked like a trundler from the 90s, really no talent at all, you are trying to sell us these players just bcoz they are young. This does not make any sense at all. 

Not one of them is a 'LOI regular'. Before getting triggered do read and comprehend properly.

 

I would anyday take Chahar over Bhuvi who hasn't taken a wicket with the new ball in ages. Likewise Shaw/ Kishen over Dhawan, SKY over any of Kohli's middle order preferences, R Chahar over Chahal. Even Samson over the accumulators Kohli prefers including himself.

 

My support to these youngsters is absolute and blind. Better to be that than supporting Clown and being shamed and forced to create new ids 

 

[New guy]

17 hours ago, Bigg Brother said:

Yup, they are. Still some people want them to replace Rohit -Kohli. Those good looking 30-40 runs arent going to help in long run.

How many cups have those big scores won? Meanwhile England won a world cup with hardly any big innings

 

Check how many times roy and barristow have failed yet they keep getting backed 

 

Good looking 30-40 runs are more impactful than slow selfish 100s.

 

This 19th century mentality is why we don't win any cups 

Edited July 24, 2021 by New guy

[CodeOfWisden]

16 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Not one of them is a 'LOI regular'. Before getting triggered do read and comprehend properly.

 

I would anyday take Chahar over Bhuvi who hasn't taken a wicket with the new ball in ages. Likewise Shaw/ Kishen over Dhawan, SKY over any of Kohli's middle order preferences, R Chahar over Chahal. Even Samson over the accumulators Kohli prefers including himself.

 

My support to these youngsters is absolute and blind. Better to be that than supporting Clown and being shamed and forced to create new ids 

 

What's with the new Id stuff? 

I post on multiple forums with the same username, you know cricket web forum, can check out my posts there.

 

Blind support for some mediocre youngsters isn't really the solution, Sakariya looks very mediocre and Samson hasn't learned a thing in last five years. 

[CodeOfWisden]

4 minutes ago, New guy said:

How many cups have those big scores won? Meanwhile England won a world cup with hardly any big innings

 

Check how many times roy and barristow have failed yet they keep getting backed 

 

Good looking 30-40 runs are more impactful than slow selfish 100s.

 

This 19th century mentality is why we don't win any cups 

Lol, Bairstow literally scored 600+ runs in the world cup, Stokes 450, Roy 450(didn't play all the matches) , I think Buttler too score a tad over 400

In t20s 30, 40s will really work but not in 50 over world cups. 

[ShoonyaSifar]

3 minutes ago, CodeOfWisden said:

Lol, Bairstow literally scored 600+ runs in the world cup, Stokes 450, Roy 450(didn't play all the matches) , I think Buttler too score a tad over 400

In t20s 30, 40s will really work but not in 50 over world cups. 

All of them were making 30s and 40s in their first 15-20 ODIs. Bairstow and Buttler started in 2011-12, Eng got thrashed in 2015 WC, no one called them overrated youngsters. They were backed and have turned around England's LOI approach.

[New guy]

Just now, CodeOfWisden said:

Lol, Bairstow literally scored 600+ runs in the world cup, Stokes 450, Roy 450(didn't play all the matches) , I think Buttler too score a tad over 400

In t20s 30, 40s will really work but not in 50 over world cups. 

Yes but check their performances before that world cup,  baristow wasn't even getting into double figures yet was supported, same with Roy. 

 

Both knock out games for England were low scoring ones and they didn't choke because of their approach while our bug scorers choked

 

[CodeOfWisden]

33 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

All of them were making 30s and 40s in their first 15-20 ODIs. Bairstow and Buttler started in 2011-12, Eng got thrashed in 2015 WC, no one called them overrated youngsters. They were backed and have turned around England's LOI approach.

I was against his opinion that quick 30 40s are enough in odis, I am definitely with you on this we need to give youngsters atleast 30 odis before judging them but I don't think Sanju is a youngster, he hasn't really matured.

Shaw, Kishan, Rahul Chahar deserve all the chances but Samson needs to start performing in the next 5-10 matches coz in his near 15 match career he hasn't done anything yet and even in IPL and first class he has failed to impress apart from some standout knocks which shows he has the talent but lacks the temperament. 

[ShoonyaSifar]

22 minutes ago, CodeOfWisden said:

I was against his opinion that quick 30 40s are enough in odis, I am definitely with you on this we need to give youngsters atleast 30 odis before judging them but I don't think Sanju is a youngster, he hasn't really matured.

Shaw, Kishan, Rahul Chahar deserve all the chances but Samson needs to start performing in the next 5-10 matches coz in his near 15 match career he hasn't done anything yet and even in IPL and first class he has failed to impress apart from some standout knocks which shows he has the talent but lacks the temperament. 

You are making it sound as if Samson got out for a low score. Run a ball 46 is quite good for ODIs. The guy has played only a few international matches spread over 3-4 year. Unless he gets a consistent run in a couple of series, unfair to judge him. He may very well turnout to be a failure but let him be given a fair chance.

[Lord]

15 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

You are making it sound as if Samson got out for a low score. Run a ball 46 is quite good for ODIs. The guy has played only a few international matches spread over 3-4 year. Unless he gets a consistent run in a couple of series, unfair to judge him. He may very well turnout to be a failure but let him be given a fair chance.

 

you have to earn your next chance at some point too.Kishan and SKY both did well on thier debuts hence they played here and here too they did better.

 

While this was first 25+ score for Samson.He got full series in Aus.Even earlier his problem has been being too reckless,almost shot a ball.

 

He'll play full T20 series here .If he doesnt get a big one,he shouldnt be complaining of lack of chances.

 

Also he should forget about keeping.Is a good outfielder so try making it as a bat.