Afghanistan has lost but gave much better fight than India did (esp. bowling)

[Dery]

Afg have better bowlers for these conditions than us

[express bowling]

49 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

In LOIs, it's all about deception in bowling. Sameness doesn't work. Spinners that are not easy to pick or pacers that can mix their pace up effectively. Straight up and down bowling won't work as there is hardly bowling friendly tracks around. 

 

 

Which is why 145 k+ pacers, with good slower balls and yorkers, are doing well.

 

The changes of pace become much more effective when the quicker balls are 145 k+.  

[mishra]

I think you guys are arguing with Lahori logic. Long back when this Lahori logic used to pretend to be Indian, I ended up putting him in ignore list. Only time i see he is on forum is when he trollvotes me or his post is on some others posters resply
 

For example- we all know we have Tyagi, Aavesh, Umran, Saini Mavi and so on. But he has no clue about them so will say No Indian can bowl faster then 140 , on logic that Ishant cant bowl faster then 140. Its not easy to argue with Lahori logic. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by mishra

[rkt.india]

37 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Which is why 145 k+ pacers, with good slower balls and yorkers, are doing well.

 

The changes of pace become much more effective when the quicker balls are 145 k+.  

Exactly and particularly on T20s on sluggish tracks.

Edited October 30, 2021 by rkt.india

[express bowling]

44 minutes ago, mishra said:

 

For example- we all know we have Tyagi, Aavesh, Umran, Saini Mavi and so on. 

 

Umran looks very promising.

 

Tyagi has regressed from where he was in 2020. He is having major issues with lack of rhythm and losing accuracy and pace a bit too often as a result.

 

Saini was bowling so well from 2017 to mid 2020 ... but not doing so after that. From being a part of the squad in all 3 formats in late 2020, he is not in any squad now.

 

Mavi is preferring to be a medium pacer in 2020 and 2021 after being so quick in 2018 and 2019.

 

Avesh has fitness issues. (  Not injury issues ). He drops pace and intensity if he has to bowl more than 4 overs a day. I hope he works on this issue.

 

Frankly speaking, among our newer pacers, only Siraj and Umran look impressive in late 2021.

 

Our cricket fraternity has not managed our upcoming quicks well.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by express bowling

[Lord]

7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Umran looks very promising.

 

Tyagi has regressed from where hd was in 2020. He is having major issues with lack of rhythm and losing accuracy and pace a bit too often.

 

Saini was bowling so well from 2017 to mid 2020 ... but not doing so after that. From being a part of the squad in all 3 formats in late 2020, he is not in any squad now.

 

Mavi is preferring to be a medium pacer in 2020 and 2021 after being so quick in 2018 and 2019.

 

Avesh has fitness issues. (  Not injury issues ). He drops pace and intensity if he has to bowl more than 4 overs a day. I hope he works on this issue.

 

Frankly speaking, among our newer pacers, only Siraj and Umran look impressive in late 2021.

 

Our cricket fraternity has not managed our upcoming quicks well.

 

 

 

I liked Arshdeep too. He has started bowling 140s. With bit more muscle he can improve further. Important left arm option.

[express bowling]

4 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

I liked Arshdeep too. He has started bowling 140s. With bit more muscle he can improve further. Important left arm option.

 

 

Arshdeep is another medium pacer.

 

May bowl that odd ball at 140 kph but his general speeds are not that high. And this is happening in T20s. 

 

I have never seen these kinds of bowlers have great careers in international cricket, especially if they are Asian and have to bowl 60% of the time on slow surfaces.

[mishra]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

Umran looks very promising.

 

Tyagi has regressed from where he was in 2020. He is having major issues with lack of rhythm and losing accuracy and pace a bit too often as a result.

 

Saini was bowling so well from 2017 to mid 2020 ... but not doing so after that. From being a part of the squad in all 3 formats in late 2020, he is not in any squad now.

 

Mavi is preferring to be a medium pacer in 2020 and 2021 after being so quick in 2018 and 2019.

 

Avesh has fitness issues. (  Not injury issues ). He drops pace and intensity if he has to bowl more than 4 overs a day. I hope he works on this issue.

 

Frankly speaking, among our newer pacers, only Siraj and Umran look impressive in late 2021.

 

Our cricket fraternity has not managed our upcoming quicks well.

 

 

What you described above is very sad affair. shouldn’t BCCI bosses come up with a formula to permanently support a bowler if he has clocked say 145+ Couple of times in a match even while playing IPL.

 

Why can’t they work with these bowlers to improve fitness, accuracy and speed along with developing some variations. How long does it takes to perfect say a slower one, if you put your mind to it and get guidance. Honestly, its very disheartening to read what you have written. 
We have money to pay players and Boards via ICC but we cant take care of few talents.

[express bowling]

6 minutes ago, mishra said:

What you described above is very sad affair. shouldn’t BCCI bosses come up with a formula to permanently support a bowler if he has clocked say 145+ Couple of times in a match even while playing IPL.

 

Why can’t they work with these bowlers to improve fitness, accuracy and speed along with developing some variations. How long does it takes to perfect say a slower one, if you put your mind to it and get guidance. Honestly, its very disheartening to read what you have written. 
We have money to pay players and Boards via ICC but we cant take care of few talents.

 

 

We need a Central Coordinator for upcoming pacers who can clock 145 k+.

 

He must look at every aspect of these pacers and guide them.

 

Leaving their development to the individual states and IPL teams won't do.

 

 

 

 

[Indwin]

5 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Yes.

As sure as you were sure about Umaish bowling 156 kph

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, Indwin said:

As sure as you were sure about Umaish bowling 156 kph

 

 

For 80% of the tests that Shami has played in ... Speeds are available on the ICC website and BCCI website and app.

 

So, anyone can check the facts themselves if they want.

 

Shami has been slower than 135 k to 145 k type speed range in tests only from December 2020. 

 

 

 

 

[Dery]

It was a minnow level performance from loli & co

[putrevus]

What an over reaction after one match. 

[Texan]

What is most shocking is that despite having the biggest and highest paying T20 tournament in the World, we cannot even produce one good T20 spinner and Afghanistan with no infrastructure, no cricketing history, no coaches, ravaged by war, has two spinners who are far better than any spinner from India. 

 

Mujib, Rashid >>>>> any Indian spinner in T20s

[putrevus]

21 minutes ago, Texan said:

What is most shocking is that despite having the biggest and highest paying T20 tournament in the World, we cannot even produce one good T20 spinner and Afghanistan with no infrastructure, no cricketing history, no coaches, ravaged by war, has two spinners who are far better than any spinner from India. 

 

Mujib, Rashid >>>>> any Indian spinner in T20s

So if you have biggest tournament or fanbase.It automatically should produce more talent. Rashid and Mujib are more talented and it is that simple. IPL or BCCI cannot create talent.

[Texan]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

So if you have biggest tournament or fanbase.It automatically should produce more talent. Rashid and Mujib are more talented and it is that simple. IPL or BCCI cannot create talent.

Then it is shameful that despite the opportunities readily available, we are not capable of producing one decent spinner. Sure, Mujib and Rashid have some talent, but it is not like they turn the ball by miles like Murali or Warne. Those guys were special and you need special talent for that. But skills that Rashid and Mujib have can be acquired. They have just figured out how to bowl effectively in this format. 

[zen]

4 hours ago, Texan said:

What is most shocking is that despite having the biggest and highest paying T20 tournament in the World, we cannot even produce one good T20 spinner and Afghanistan with no infrastructure, no cricketing history, no coaches, ravaged by war, has two spinners who are far better than any spinner from India. 

 

Mujib, Rashid >>>>> any Indian spinner in T20s

 

As it was said in some film - Italy with all its turmoil had its Renaissance, while Switzerland invented "cuckoo clocks".  

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, Texan said:

Then it is shameful that despite the opportunities readily available, we are not capable of producing one decent spinner. Sure, Mujib and Rashid have some talent, but it is not like they turn the ball by miles like Murali or Warne. Those guys were special and you need special talent for that. But skills that Rashid and Mujib have can be acquired. They have just figured out how to bowl effectively in this format. 

Why is it shameful.No talents of Rashid and Mujib cannot be acquired, there is only one Sachin. If talent can be acquired by practicing hard India would be winning everything given their size. Rashid and Mujeeb are extremely unique and Afghanistan is lucky to have them.

 

It is biggest mistake to assume based on IPL and BCCI riches India should be wininning everything.

[Texan]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Why is it shameful.No talents of Rashid and Mujib cannot be acquired, there is only one Sachin. If talent can be acquired by practicing hard India would be winning everything given their size. Rashid and Mujeeb are extremely unique and Afghanistan is lucky to have them.

 

It is biggest mistake to assume based on IPL and BCCI riches India should be wininning everything.

This is the problem. We have a mentality of accepting mediocrity. When team can't produce good spinners, answer is we don't have talent, can't do anything about it. Not acceptable for me. When we have a top league, we should be producing World beating cricketers. Sorry, I cannot just accept mediocrity being dished out without critiquing it. By the way, Mujib and Rashid are not Sachin, no way close. When you do a Sachin comparison, it should be with someone like Warne or Murali, who I have already said are special talents. 

[express bowling]

7 hours ago, Texan said:

This is the problem. We have a mentality of accepting mediocrity. When team can't produce good spinners, answer is we don't have talent, can't do anything about it. Not acceptable for me. When we have a top league, we should be producing World beating cricketers. Sorry, I cannot just accept mediocrity being dished out without critiquing it. By the way, Mujib and Rashid are not Sachin, no way close. When you do a Sachin comparison, it should be with someone like Warne or Murali, who I have already said are special talents. 

 

 

Exactly !

 

The Indian cricketing fraternity and some of it's loyal fans have used this excuse, of not having suffient talent, for decades now. And it is done to hide highly inefficient systems at various levels. 

 

Earlier It used to be regarding fast bowlers and stroke players and now it is about spinners and technically sound batsmen.

 

A casual look at our U19 teams via a vis other U19 teams will tell us how much superior we are in terms of raw talent. Our pacers are quicker and get more swing, our spinners look absolutely lethal and our batters look a notch above all the others in terms of strokeplay.

 

But look at them 4 years down the line. A miajority of them either regress or stagnate.

 

If we want to harness the full potential of the raw talent we have, there needs to be a Central Coordinator who looks after their transformation from U19 level to the Senior level in a systematic and all-comprehensive manner which include techniques/ actions and fitness.

 

It's all about having proper systems in place which are designed after some solid research.

 

P.S -- Both Bishnoi and R.Chahar are top level in terms of spinning talent. R.Chahar has already regressed. Spinning the ball less than his U19 days and his repertoire has not expanded.

 

Bishnoi is still doing well and needs to be developed with special care.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by express bowling