Bullet Train project

[dial_100]

Pros:

1. Funding has been availed by Japan.
2. AHM to MUM would be the first leg and in subsequent phases, Jaipur, Delhi could be connected.
3. Fast, secured and Green transport
4. Reduces Oil import needed for Aviation/jet fuel.
5. Brings new technology to the country
6. Adds massive employment opportunities
7. Develops new Economic activities around the route.
8. This would be part of Delhi - Mumbai Industrial Corridor (DMIC)
9. Reduces stress from Air traffic. 
10. In emergencies, large movement of troops, equipment, medicines, patients is enabled if such mode of transport is available

 

Cons:

1. Project requires land acquisition
2. The political rivalry is always a hinderance 
3. There is somewhat high initial cost involved
4. ..... ( i will update more)

 

Conclusion:

I feel we need this badly. China worked on its infrastructure which it started in early 90s. In last 30 years, it has grown into an impressive network of various infrastructures needed to build/develop, grow and sustain its economy. India has a very strong experience in running trains. With available technology, we can easily maintain the functions of bullet trains. Lots of businesses can privately own and run various services all across India. With such a massive population, we cannot afford to spend overnight travel from 1 city to another. A quick 3-5 hours trip to any corner of our country is needed and it will be only possible if we build a strong network of bullet trains all across india. We need to start somewhere and mumbai - delhi would be the best choice for this.

 

Lets discuss

 

[Texy]

Nothing will get done in India because of the need to APPEASE everyone, 1st religion then caste then corruption

[EnterTheVoid]

Would love to see a Japanese style Shinkansen operating between India's metropolitan cities.

 

May not happen in the near future. But, hoping to see it happen in my lifetime

[Yoda-esque]

Growth has to be holistic..totally support this

[Clarke]

It is for rich people wonly

 

we need gormint to work for poor people and provide train service for max 10 Rs. per day unlimited km, like bombai local. also hire few more million in railways for steady jaabs. 

[Clarke]

btw China comparison is useless. They're subsidizing high speed rail for better integration especially with troublesome areas. 

 

I'm only in favor of the first line since its majorly funded by Japan on interest free loan. Try it out, see if it provides actual benefits, a proof of concept. Our core focus should be upgrading railway infra to make it mid tier, get avg speed much better than what it is currently. Bullet train is niche service. 

[randomGuy]

Great!! I am more excited about 1350km , 8 lane Delhi Mumbai expressway to be completed in 1-1.5 yrs. It should be a massive boost for all the cities between Delhi and Mumbai who will be using the expressway. Kudos to Gadkari ji and team who are working hard and so, are ahead of schedule.

[Singh bling]

Just a question price of  Delhi to Mumbai flight ticket is already lower 2 ac if you book 30 days in advance . My question is what will be price of bullet train tickets ? If  it is going to costly that flights then don't expect people to rush in.

[Clarke]

Dilli is light years away from this line. First thing is this Ahmedabad-Mumbai line to be set up & working. Even if it turns out worthwhile, extending it will require further analysis since there wont be interest free very long term loans at hand. Globally, high speed rail hasn't been used as much for long distances. If we have hydrogen or other suitable options, flying may continue to be dominant and if not this is cleaner. 

[Trichromatic]

What purpose does bullet train serve?

 

Is it cheaper than flights? If not, then what are the adavantages for passengers?

[ravishingravi]

I am not sure why should it be cheaper than flight. In Europe, Euro rail or even domestic train tickets can and are more expensive than airways. In fact, in many ways, they force the airlines to be competitive. 

 

[Trichromatic]

4 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

I am not sure why should it be cheaper than flight. In Europe, Euro rail or even domestic train tickets can and are more expensive than airways. In fact, in many ways, they force the airlines to be competitive. 

 

 

If it's not suppose to cheaper, then what are advantages that it brings for the passengers?

[Mariyam]

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

 

If it's not suppose to cheaper, then what are advantages that it brings for the passengers?

Can transfer more people per trip I suppose.

 

Also can be used for freight.

[ravishingravi]

2 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

 

If it's not suppose to cheaper, then what are advantages that it brings for the passengers?

There is no such thing as too much connectivity. The more infrastructure you create the more passengers you will have. More industries / business, more tourism more consumption etc. There is reason why Bombardier and Alstom are salivating over possible infrastucture spends in India. If this country gets connected better that doubles GDP right there. 
 

Pricing has to be realistic but they don’t have to fret over it too much. Let there be Mumbai Ahmedabad train. People will work on weekdays and go back on weekends. In Mumbai we also have folks commuting from almost border area or Valsad. 

[Singh bling]

6 hours ago, Clarke said:

Dilli is light years away from this line. First thing is this Ahmedabad-Mumbai line to be set up & working. Even if it turns out worthwhile, extending it will require further analysis since there wont be interest free very long term loans at hand. Globally, high speed rail hasn't been used as much for long distances. If we have hydrogen or other suitable options, flying may continue to be dominant and if not this is cleaner. 

Ahmedabad Mumbai is 1800 rupees if booked in 30 days advance in flights. Bullet train ticket cannot be more than 2000 only then people which needs to travel  immediately will buy it.

[ravishingravi]

1 hour ago, Singh bling said:

Ahmedabad Mumbai is 1800 rupees if booked in 30 days advance in flights. Bullet train ticket cannot be more than 2000 only then people which needs to travel  immediately will buy it.

I can only hope those pricing the these train tickets apply better economic axioms. 

[dial_100]

Alternatives :-

 

• Flight available for 1800/2000 if booked a month in advance. 

Basically, we move 200 x 15 flights = 3000 passenger a day one way between 2 locations. That is the key 2 locations. With BT, we have an option of passenger moving from Vapi, Panvel or Surat to Mumbai cannot travel on a flight. Now this commute is much less than 1 hour with BT. These passengers have no option but to use regular trains (2A, 1A, 3A) etc or travel by private luxury cars to Mumbai or Baroda, Ahmedabad. Similarly, passengers from Ahm or Baroda cannot commute to Surat, Vapi, Valsad or Panvel in the most efficient manner. BT gives connectivity to people staying only 20-30-45 min apart from major hubs. 

 

I think we shouldnt just get stuck with Rs1800/2000 unflexible option of flights. It is great for A to B travel, as in Mum to Ahm. But as explained above, it doesnt provide anything in between.

 

In other scenarios like when oil isnt available, or airspace gets restriction because of natural or unnatural circumstances, then our entire business travels will be hampered. We could be brought down in literally 1 hour. With on ground transport, we can continue to operate. Yes investment is not 100% recovered unless the project is vastly successful. But, until we implement a complete network of BT all across the country, effective cost wont come down. But if we manage to do that then, it is 1 time expenditure and for next 30-50 years, we will ahve mode of transport which is 3-5 times faster (than curren fast trains).

 

BT can take about 750 passengers, if needed can be extended to 1250 capacity. Thats equivalent of 4-7 flights. Operations of airports are much much more complex and expensive for Govt than train station.

 

BT will develop all the areas surrounding this entire route. Flights wont do any of that sort. I feel, government will only recover 60-70% of cost of this project. Remaining 30% investment will provide indirect benefits, like transfer of technology, development of neighboring areas of each station. We know what happens in Mumba. Local trains run every 1.5 min yet they are 110% capacity on an average. That means we have maxed out. 

 

The new Vande Bharat express earned 90+ Crore in 1 year. Just 1 train could earn that much. 

Edited November 8, 2021 by dial_100

[ravishingravi]

9 hours ago, dial_100 said:

Alternatives :-

 

• Flight available for 1800/2000 if booked a month in advance. 

Basically, we move 200 x 15 flights = 3000 passenger a day one way between 2 locations. That is the key 2 locations. With BT, we have an option of passenger moving from Vapi, Panvel or Surat to Mumbai cannot travel on a flight. Now this commute is much less than 1 hour with BT. These passengers have no option but to use regular trains (2A, 1A, 3A) etc or travel by private luxury cars to Mumbai or Baroda, Ahmedabad. Similarly, passengers from Ahm or Baroda cannot commute to Surat, Vapi, Valsad or Panvel in the most efficient manner. BT gives connectivity to people staying only 20-30-45 min apart from major hubs. 

 

I think we shouldnt just get stuck with Rs1800/2000 unflexible option of flights. It is great for A to B travel, as in Mum to Ahm. But as explained above, it doesnt provide anything in between.

 

In other scenarios like when oil isnt available, or airspace gets restriction because of natural or unnatural circumstances, then our entire business travels will be hampered. We could be brought down in literally 1 hour. With on ground transport, we can continue to operate. Yes investment is not 100% recovered unless the project is vastly successful. But, until we implement a complete network of BT all across the country, effective cost wont come down. But if we manage to do that then, it is 1 time expenditure and for next 30-50 years, we will ahve mode of transport which is 3-5 times faster (than curren fast trains).

 

BT can take about 750 passengers, if needed can be extended to 1250 capacity. Thats equivalent of 4-7 flights. Operations of airports are much much more complex and expensive for Govt than train station.

 

BT will develop all the areas surrounding this entire route. Flights wont do any of that sort. I feel, government will only recover 60-70% of cost of this project. Remaining 30% investment will provide indirect benefits, like transfer of technology, development of neighboring areas of each station. We know what happens in Mumba. Local trains run every 1.5 min yet they are 110% capacity on an average. That means we have maxed out. 

 

The new Vande Bharat express earned 90+ Crore in 1 year. Just 1 train could earn that much. 

 

++ Why should ticket prices be fixed ? It should be a function of demand and supply. This is not a non profit venture. 

[Clarke]

16 hours ago, Singh bling said:

Ahmedabad Mumbai is 1800 rupees if booked in 30 days advance in flights. Bullet train ticket cannot be more than 2000 only then people which needs to travel  immediately will buy it.

 

How much per ticket if we use Japanese train in our own way ? I hope the additional costs such as stick for train driver are also included in ticket price. 

 

 

[dial_100]

7 hours ago, ravishingravi said:

 

++ Why should ticket prices be fixed ? It should be a function of demand and supply. This is not a non profit venture. 

 

I hear that tickets would be couple of hundred rupees cheaper than flight tickets. 

 

I think high-speed railways work with different pricing dynamics than our traditional railways. But if we are under the impression that HS rail corridor will be profitable endeavor then we are fooling ourselves. If we build a network of BT all across India then we are looking at massive $1-200B debt on India. But I have no doubt in my mind that once economy crosses $8-10T, such infrastructure will come in handy. We wont be in position to build or start building such infra at that time because economic momentum can only be gathered on top of available (key word is AVAILABLE) infrastructure. It doesnt work the other way around.