Team Ind could become the Trundler Army

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I am not talking about T20s only. But Tests and ODIs too.

 

 

 

in Tests we are already good man. Only ingredient missing is swing. Infact inclusion of Chahar in place of Ashwin in Test series could have even won the series for us.  Even in one dayers we are not that terrible. It is the batting that sucked for us in the one dayers and spin bowling.  India needs bowlers who can adapt to various conditions.

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Apart from the last T20I, Chahar has been rather poor with the ball in T20Is in the last 2 years. 

 

He has taken 9 wickets from his last 10 T20Is. So how many new ball wickets can he be taking ?

 

Again Siraj has played 4 T20s.Bowled poorly. 5 or 6 seasons of IPL think. Didnt't impress until the last season. Chahar pretty much clicked in every single season.  Even in SMAT , during 2018 Chahar was the best bowler with most wickets, best ER. Guys like Siraj/Prasidh were nowhere to be found. Infact many of us blamed the management for introducing Siraj into wrong format. What changed now?

Edited February 22, 2022 by vvvslaxman

[Adamant]

Pace only matters if you are also skilled. 

Guys like Umesh, Aaron, Riaz, etc are all examples of what would happen if you try to select pacers just on the basis of pace. 

 

This is basically the hierarchy - 

1.Raw Pace with skills 

2.Highly skilled medium pacers 

3. Trundlers (military medium) with good control on line and length or obtains some lateral movement

4. Gun barrel straight 90mph pacers. 

 

Just because one bowler bowls faster doesn't mean he is better. 

 

I (and also the selectors) would take a trundler with skills anyday over a gun barrel straight pacer who bowls 90mph. 

 

90moh bowlers who couldn't move the ball an inch have been the biggest failures in test cricket. 

Give me an Angus Fraser anyday over Brett Lee in tests. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Adamant

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

in Tests we are already good man. Only ingredient missing is swing. Infact inclusion of Chahar in place of Ashwin in Test series could have even won the series for us.  Even in one dayers we are not that terrible. It is the batting that sucked for us in the one dayers and spin bowling.  India needs bowlers who can adapt to various conditions.

 

I think you have not followed the context of our discussions.

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Control over a wide range of skills come only if a pacer is allowed to play. Someone as skilful as a Siraj can master most T20 skills if he gets to play 15 T20Is.

 

But it is not happening because only medium pacers are being picked for T20Is.

siraj is an all format n phase bowler now, in recent times its his injury and in t20wc it was blunder but he missed out due to shami 

 

he n bumrah shud be locked for me in every format 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[express bowling]

16 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Again Siraj has played 4 T20s.Bowled poorly. 5 or 6 seasons of IPL think. Didnt't impress until the last season. Chahar pretty much clicked in every single season.  Even in SMAT , during 2018 Chahar was the best bowler with most wickets, best ER. Guys like Siraj/Prasidh were nowhere to be found. Infact many of us blamed the management for introducing Siraj into wrong format. What changed now?

 

What one has done in other matches lose all meaning when a bowler ( in this case Chahar ) is not performing in actual International matches.

 

And Siraj has played just 1 T20I after his improvement as a T20 bowler.

Edited February 22, 2022 by express bowling

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

siraj is an all format n phase bowler now, in recent times its his injury and in t20wc it was blunder but he missed out due to shami 

 

 

Agree. 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, express bowling said:

 

What one has done in other matches like all meaning when a bowler ( in this case Chahar ) is not performing in actual International matches.

 

And Siraj has played just 1 T20I after his improvement as a T20 bowler.

 

Improvement is a relative term. Sure by his own standards he has improved Economy rate wise.  He has taken a grand total of 11 wickets in 15 matches. 4 in power play.  It is Chahal and Harshal patel did most of the damage for them. One in the death, one in the power play. In some matches Jamieson. Siraj went wicketless in so many matches. 

 

 

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Improvement is a relative term. Sure by his own standards he has improved Economy rate wise.  He has taken a grand total of 11 wickets in 15 matches. 4 in power play.  It is Chahal and Harshal patel did most of the damage for them. One in the death, one in the power play. In some matches Jamieson. Siraj went wicketless in so many matches. 

 

 

Siraj defended gettable totals in 3 matches. And was bowling amazing yorkers and good slower balls.

 

Getting new ball wickets also depend on the captain and the field he is providing. If slips are kept in the first 4 overs, more wickets will come. We all know that Siraj gets new ball wickets if there are slips.

[vvvslaxman]

18 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Siraj defended gettable totals in 3 matches. And was bowling amazing yorkers and good slower balls.

 

Getting new ball wickets also depend on the captain and the field he is providing. If slips are kept in the first 4 overs, more wickets will come. We all know that Siraj gets new ball wickets if there are slips.

 

It comes down to how well he does in the remaining matches he plays till the world T20. But he hasn't reached a stage where he becomes an automatic T20 pick. Apart from Bumrah nobody is an automatic pick at this point. Chahar has an edge due to his power play overs and batting.  He has to look significantly better than CHahar to offset Chahar's batting potential.

[Vijy]

7 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Siraj defended gettable totals in 3 matches. And was bowling amazing yorkers and good slower balls.

 

Getting new ball wickets also depend on the captain and the field he is providing. If slips are kept in the first 4 overs, more wickets will come. We all know that Siraj gets new ball wickets if there are slips.

and he had, let us say, a rather limited LOI captain until recently.

[express bowling]

12 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

It comes down to how well he does in the remaining matches he plays till the world T20. But he hasn't reached a stage where he becomes an automatic T20 pick. Apart from Bumrah nobody is an automatic pick at this point. Chahar has an edge due to his power play overs and batting.  He has to look significantly better than CHahar to offset Chahar's batting potential.

 

 

We all know that Siraj is not an automatic pick in T20Is.

 

All I ask is for him to get some games in bilateral T20Is. He wasn't even picked for the dead rubber match.

 

I don't think Chahar has an edge over him as he is not trusted during the death overs.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by express bowling

[Suhaan]

Chahar can only pip Siraj in one case

i.e if TM doesn't want to burn out latter by playing every damn game

 

[vvvslaxman]

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

We all know that Siraj is not an automatic pick in T20Is.

 

All I ask is for him to get some games in bilateral T20Is. He wasn't even picked for the dead rubber match.

 

I don't think Chahar has an edge over him as he is not trusted during the death overs.

 

 

 

 

 

You play Harshal patel in death overs for that. If you want Siraj replace harshal with Siraj. Chahar is still better bet with newish ball as he is the only one conventionally swings if you exclude Bhuvi.

[Lord]

Siraj is all format bowler,so it makes sense to not overload him.

 

I'm sure he'll be in the squad for WT20.

[rkt.india]

4 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

You play Harshal patel in death overs for that. If you want Siraj replace harshal with Siraj. Chahar is still better bet with newish ball as he is the only one conventionally swings if you exclude Bhuvi.

Patel is not a death bowler. He is trying to be but he isn't. bowling won't work in Australia. He can be treated like Jaddu did. 

[express bowling]

17 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

You play Harshal patel in death overs for that. If you want Siraj replace harshal with Siraj. Chahar is still better bet with newish ball as he is the only one conventionally swings if you exclude Bhuvi.

 

 

 

6. Jadeja

7. Deepak

8. Washington / Axar

9. Bishnoi

10. Bumrah

11. Siraj

 

 

This will cover all bases in T20s.

[ShoonyaSifar]

12 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

 

6. Jadeja

7. Deepak

8. Washington / Axar

9. Bishnoi

10. Bumrah

11. Siraj

 

 

This will cover all bases in T20s.

How can you ignore Harshal after the kind of form he's had first in IPL (in both India and UAE) and now in the chances he's got? 

 

He hasn't had no opportunities to bat but as he opens for his state in domestic T20s and does a good job as a hitter, I'd say we should play him in ODIs as well. He's himself a proper swing and seam bowler in FC cricket, but bowls the cutters in T20s as an adjustment. Bumrah has been off boil in LOIs for quite sometime, should not be a certainty unless he gets his rhythm back. 

 

From having one dimensional players just a few months back, we now have options of playing a batting all rounder V. Iyer and bowling all rounders Shardul, Deepak and Harshal. 3 of them should be in our LOI team regularly given the top order * ups we have regularly had in key games. It'll ease a lot of pressure on the middle order

[Ankit_sharma03]

42 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

 

6. Jadeja

7. Deepak

8. Washington / Axar

9. Bishnoi

10. Bumrah

11. Siraj

 

 

This will cover all bases in T20s.

if jadeja is coming at 6 and chahar 7 thats a very weak batting, why are u wasting one slot on jadeja who cant hit from ball 1 and has never been a good bowler in t20 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

if jadeja is coming at 6 and chahar 7 thats a very weak batting, why are u wasting one slot on jadeja who cant hit from ball 1 and has never been a good bowler in t20 

 

You always underestimate Jadeja 2.0, the batsman.