Seam bowling all rounders

[Vijy]

Just now, express bowling said:

While searching for true all-rounders, we are picking too many weak bowlers with a bit of batting ability ... like Shardul, Chahar, Unadkat, Harshal.

 

Not good. 

 

Batting is not getting strengthened but bowling is getting weak. 

 

While looking for bowling all-rounders who will bat at 8 or later, first find bowlers who will find a place in the team as a pure bowler even if he could not bat. Then pick the one with best batting ability for No.8.  Ashwin in tests is a perfect example.

 

While looking for batting all-rounders who will bat in the top 7, first find batsmen who will find a place in the team as batsman even if they could not bowl. Then include the one with best bowling ability at 6 or 7.  The current day Jadeja in tests or Hardik in LOIs are good examples. 

don't forget dhawal, rishi dhawan - both of whom played as quasi-ARs. I think they can make a comeback, especially rishi.

 

Ashwin was always quite a capable bat (even in ranjis pre-test-debut), so I don't think the analogy is appropriate. likewise, jaddu in top 6 or top 7 is still chosen as much for his bowling as for his batting.

 

better policy for no. 7 and no. 8 is to identify promising youngsters from U19 days, groom them throughout - send them on A tours, special camps, etc. and have them ready by 22 or so. three years of intensive coaching should be enough.

 

no. 6 or no. 7 should have batting as stronger suit, and no. 8 should have bowling as stronger suit.

[vishalvirsingh]

3 hours ago, sandeep said:

Its not like we haven't "gambled".   Journeyman like Sanjay Bangar and Stuart Binny have had shots at test careers.  Pandya could have been a useful piece but multiple back injuries means he's a white ball only player.  Pace bowling allrounders are coming - 10-15 years ago, all we had was once in a blue moon Bangar and Abhishek Nayyars, now instead of unicorns, its a trickle and picking up pace.  Bound to throw up viable players eventually.

Bangar was an average bowler and an average batsman- probably not good enough to play for India. He was probably played thinking he is a genuine Pace bowling All rounder. with due respect He is , but only for State level standards not for International cricket.

shardul , hardik are better bowlers and probably even better batsman than bangar. abhishek nayaar was even inferrior.

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, vishalvirsingh said:

Bangar was an average bowler and an average batsman- probably not good enough to play for India. He was probably played thinking he is a genuine Pace bowling All rounder. with due respect He is , but only for State level standards not for International cricket.

shardul , hardik are better bowlers and probably even better batsman than bangar. abhishek nayaar was even inferrior.

shardul, for one, is not a better bat than banger. of course, he is a better overall package, but not when only batting is evaluated

[express bowling]

Our current ones just seem to be bowling allrounders rather than being seam bowling allrounders like say a Pollock. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by express bowling

[tweaker]

Venkatesh Iyer Can bat at any position ,can bowled at 120 to 130 k as 5 th bowler..

He has been ignored,he should have got some game against Zimbabwe, Ireland ,Windies series.

 

Bawa,Hangarekar,Arjun should play atleast 2 season od domestic cricket to gain experience

[Pollack]

20 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Our current ones just seem to be bowling allrounders rather than being actual bowling allrounders like say a Pollock. 

It is travesty to compare the likes of Shardul, Unadkat, thakur or even Pandya to Shaun Pollock. Pollock was a genuine allrounder. An average of 32 batting at 8 or 9 in tests. And don't even need to explain about his bowling greatness over these bits and pieces Indian " bowling allrounders". He was the Glenn McGrath of South Africa. I stand offended.

[Lone Wolf]

Raj Bawa is arguably closest to what we have with Green.  I think his bowling is quite good looking at his brief India A stint. 

He needs to be on every A tour for us.   He is a Ben Stokes esque talent. 

[Clarke]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

 

While looking for bowling all-rounders who will bat at 8 or later, first find bowlers who will find a place in the team as a pure bowler even if he could not bat. Then pick the one with best batting ability for No.8.  Ashwin in tests is a perfect example.

 

 

Indeed. Its because we don't have either world class batting or bowling that we look for these makeshift options. 6+1 good batsmen & 4 good bowlers should be the main goal we mostly struggle with and convert basic squares into jigsaw puzzle pieces. 

[express bowling]

26 minutes ago, Pollack said:

It is travesty to compare the likes of Shardul, Unadkat, thakur or even Pandya to Shaun Pollock. Pollock was a genuine allrounder. An average of 32 batting at 8 or 9 in tests. And don't even need to explain about his bowling greatness over these bits and pieces Indian " bowling allrounders". He was the Glenn McGrath of South Africa. I stand offended.

 

 

That's what I am saying.

 

Pollock could play just a great bowler even if he had batted like Muralidharan.  His batting was a plus.

 

This is how all-rounders should be selected instead of these bits and pieces junk we pick in the name of all-rounders.

Edited December 27, 2022 by express bowling

[express bowling]

22 minutes ago, Clarke said:

 

Indeed. Its because we don't have either world class batting or bowling that we look for these makeshift options. 6+1 good batsmen & 4 good bowlers should be the main goal we mostly struggle with and convert basic squares into jigsaw puzzle pieces. 

 

When we did really well in tests, our bowling had 5 proper high quality bowlers in Bumrah, Shami, Ishant, Ashwin, Jadeja.

 

It was an added bonus that Jadeja or Ashwin could bat. 

[Pollack]

38 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

That's what I am saying.

 

Pollock could play just a great bowler even if he had batted like Muralidharan.  His batting was a plus.

 

This is how all-rounders should be selected instead of these bits and pieces junk we pick in the name of all-rounders.

Ah! I read it again. Now I understand.

Btw Steve Waugh once said Pollock could've been as good as top order batsman.

Actually if he bat a little bit higher then it was quite possible. At the position Pollock used to bat he had no choice but just have some fun rather than some serious batting. He had tight batting technique but played lose shots because his role wasn't really to build innings.

 

Just for shaun pollock fans :

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://youtu.be/E68OUUingAg

 

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Pollack

[Majestic]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

While searching for true all-rounders, we are picking too many weak bowlers with a bit of batting ability ... like Shardul, Chahar, Unadkat, Harshal.

 

Not good. 

 

Batting is not getting strengthened but bowling is getting weak. 

 

While looking for bowling all-rounders who will bat at 8 or later, first find bowlers who will find a place in the team as a pure bowler even if he could not bat. Then pick the one with best batting ability for No.8.  Ashwin in tests is a perfect example.

 

While looking for batting all-rounders who will bat in the top 7, first find batsmen who will find a place in the team as batsman even if they could not bowl. Then include the one with best bowling ability at 6 or 7.  The current day Jadeja in tests or Hardik in LOIs are good examples. 

Good point.

 

Sundar is your choice for top 7. For no 8, Shardul was picked because of lack of options in the Gabba test but it came off well and they persisted with him. I think till now, he has done well but soon he will fizzle out. Hence, we need to look for other options.

 

In Asia, Ashwin was like a GOAT so he won us matches on his own at that position. Outside Asia, Ashwin and Jadeja playing together hasn't come off as much especially in seamer friendly conditions.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Majestic

[speedracer]

15 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

First you need 5 quality batsmen and 4 bowlers,only after that the all rounder can play as an all-rounder , otherwise he has to play as a batsman or a bowler.

Australia has 5 quality batsmen

Warner

Smith

Head

Labushagne 

Warner albeit FTB

Khawaja no slouch either

Green also Cummins and strc can bat a bit

 

[Moochad]

Had Hardik panned out we would have one. Right now there isnt one. The best bet is to develop the batting performances of our main bowlers like bumrah 

[sandeep]

8 hours ago, vishalvirsingh said:

Bangar was an average bowler and an average batsman- probably not good enough to play for India. He was probably played thinking he is a genuine Pace bowling All rounder. with due respect He is , but only for State level standards not for International cricket.

shardul , hardik are better bowlers and probably even better batsman than bangar. abhishek nayaar was even inferrior.

Beggars can't be choosers - reality is that he was the best option we had at the time.  Because the cricket culture and pitches in India didn't support the development of that type of players.  

 

And to his credit, Bangar contributed to Indian winning a test match in England.  

[Vijy]

5 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Beggars can't be choosers - reality is that he was the best option we had at the time.  Because the cricket culture and pitches in India didn't support the development of that type of players.  

 

And to his credit, Bangar contributed to Indian winning a test match in England.  

there were three bits-and-pieces players that I think should have gotten a longer run in ODIs in 2000s, when we had less of a pace bowling culture. one was reetinder singh sodhi, and the other was JP yadav and one more was LR shukla. not saying either was great (they clearly were not), but they were not terrible options IMO

Edited December 27, 2022 by Vijy

[rkt.india]

Bawa and Suryansh Shedge are two of the best around prospect currently.

[vvvslaxman]

Cam Green, Curran, Stokes will inspire many fast bowling all rounders in the world. Hope we find some of them. These guys have to know there is incentive. Motivation will come.   Hope Tendulkar Jr. makes some progress.

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Cam Green, Curran, Stokes will inspire many fast bowling all rounders in the world. Hope we find some of them. These guys have to know there is incentive. Motivation will come.   Hope Tendulkar Jr. makes some progress.

stokes has already initiated development of some fresh blood in Eng. for us to produce such players, we need our own role model - like kapil paaji.

[Vijy]

8 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

That's what I am saying.

 

Pollock could play just a great bowler even if he had batted like Muralidharan.  His batting was a plus.

 

This is how all-rounders should be selected instead of these bits and pieces junk we pick in the name of all-rounders.

yes, seam all-rounders should keep in mind what the Mighty Curly Ambrose told Bawa; same advice applies to others too.

 

"Ambrose, a man of few words, congratulated the youngster and said, “Don’t lose your pace. You are quick. You can trouble the best in the business with the kind of steep bounce you generate from the good length. Don’t become a line-length bowler. Enjoy the evening.”