What is this obsession with Chahal. He is NOT international class - Chahal never deserved to play for India.

[Nikhil_cric]

He had utility until at least a year ago when we went to the World T20.

Was probably the best spinner in that years IPL.

 

The problem also stems from Indian TM.

 

What does Indian TM even want from their premier spinner in LOIs? 

 

They probably want someone who can bowl attacking slow speeds like peak Chahal with plenty of revs and possessing huge wicket taking threat circa 2018/19.

 

But that works more in ODIs where you have longer spells to induce false shots and so you cannot constantly attack without losing wickets. 

 

But then because batsmen started looking to rotate and not attack him in ODI's , he lost his wicket taking threat  .

 

So everyone blamed his lack of pace. And wanted more defensive skills and he started firing it in trying to restrict batsmen and lost his natural loop and batsmen adapted and he was never very good at those wide lines and sliders anyway .

 

Then they complained he wasn't batting well enough. 

 

 

If the TM were so worried about leaking runs , why did they play Kulcha in every game regardless of pitch and opposition and ground dimensions. That too 2 wrist spinners?

 

No wrist spinner can give you both all the time. In fact, no bowler can. 

 

Zampa got smashed for 113 and he's been the best ODI spinner for quite some time. 

 

Did Australia even talk about dropping him? lol. 

 

They played him in every match regardless. That's how you show faith in your wicket taking bowlers and especially wristspinners.

 

Look at Adil Rashid's evolution . In his first two years, Rashid got hit in plenty of matches at very high rates. 

 

Morgan didnt give a rats behind about that.  He just encouraged him to keep attacking and give him 2/3 wickets in the middle overs. 

 

Whatever your wicket taking bowlers couldn't give, it was up to the batting to get. Simple. 

 

In our set up, wicket taking bowlers have to somehow find a way to not only take wickets but control the rate at all times as well. 

 

This under the supposedly aggresive, macho, alpha male duo of Kohli /Shastri  that often publicly claimed to back wicket taking bowlers no mattered.

 

Basically, so called spin allrounder could just keep the runs down as "support " bowler and not add to the batting depth,  old keeper was used only for his keeping skills and for his eternal cricketing wisdom without adding much to batting and the Top 3 could bat at a snails pace without embracing any risk in the powerplay and then head towards a middle-of-the road score while refusing to add any part time bowling to allow extra batter to increase depth because they didn't want to risk injury apparently. 

 

Basically, bowlers have to embrace all the risk and get all the stick if the team failed. 

 

The legendary Kohli/Shastri duo of playing LOI cricket .

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

14 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

He had utility until at least a year ago when we went to the World T20.

Was probably the best spinner in that years IPL.

 

The problem also stems from Indian TM.

 

What does Indian TM even want from their premier spinner in LOIs? 

 

They probably want someone who can bowl attacking slow speeds like peak Chahal with plenty of revs and possessing huge wicket taking threat circa 2018/19.

 

But that works more in ODIs where you have longer spells to induce false shots and so you cannot constantly attack without losing wickets. 

 

But then because batsmen started looking to rotate and not attack him in ODI's , he lost his wicket taking threat  .

 

So everyone blamed his lack of pace. And wanted more defensive skills and he started firing it in trying to restrict batsmen and lost his natural loop and batsmen adapted and he was never very good at those wide lines and sliders anyway .

 

Then they complained he wasn't batting well enough. 

 

 

If the TM were so worried about leaking runs , why did they play Kulcha in every game regardless of pitch and opposition and ground dimensions. That too 2 wrist spinners?

 

No wrist spinner can give you both all the time. In fact, no bowler can. 

 

Zampa got smashed for 113 and he's been the best ODI spinner for quite some time. 

 

Did Australia even talk about dropping him? lol. 

 

They played him in every match regardless. That's how you show faith in your wicket taking bowlers and especially wristspinners.

 

Look at Adil Rashid's evolution . In his first two years, Rashid got hit in plenty of matches at very high rates. 

 

Morgan didnt give a rats behind about that.  He just encouraged him to keep attacking and give him 2/3 wickets in the middle overs. 

 

Whatever your wicket taking bowlers couldn't give, it was up to the batting to get. Simple. 

 

In our set up, wicket taking bowlers have to somehow find a way to not only take wickets but control the rate at all times as well. 

 

This under the supposedly aggresive, macho, alpha male duo of Kohli /Shastri  that often publicly claimed to back wicket taking bowlers no mattered.

 

Basically, so called spin allrounder could just keep the runs down as "support " bowler and not add to the batting depth,  old keeper was used only for his keeping skills and for his eternal cricketing wisdom without adding much to batting and the Top 3 could bat at a snails pace without embracing any risk in the powerplay and then head towards a middle-of-the road score while refusing to add any part time bowling to allow extra batter to increase depth because they didn't want to risk injury apparently. 

 

Basically, bowlers have to embrace all the risk and get all the stick if the team failed. 

 

The legendary Kohli/Shastri duo of playing LOI cricket .

 

 

He had a mediocre debut in 2015...  Never had a googly nor a big turning leg spinner. 

Wasn't in the same class of Mishraji let alone Kuldeep. 

It is a big slap on IPL that this fraud picked so many wickets. 

 

Never rated him.  Karn Sharma deserved a run over him at least he could hold the bat... And could have turned into a solid defensive option. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Lone Wolf

[rollingstoned]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

He had utility until at least a year ago when we went to the World T20.

Was probably the best spinner in that years IPL.

 

The problem also stems from Indian TM.

 

What does Indian TM even want from their premier spinner in LOIs? 

 

They probably want someone who can bowl attacking slow speeds like peak Chahal with plenty of revs and possessing huge wicket taking threat circa 2018/19.

 

But that works more in ODIs where you have longer spells to induce false shots and so you cannot constantly attack without losing wickets. 

 

But then because batsmen started looking to rotate and not attack him in ODI's , he lost his wicket taking threat  .

 

So everyone blamed his lack of pace. And wanted more defensive skills and he started firing it in trying to restrict batsmen and lost his natural loop and batsmen adapted and he was never very good at those wide lines and sliders anyway .

 

Then they complained he wasn't batting well enough. 

 

 

If the TM were so worried about leaking runs , why did they play Kulcha in every game regardless of pitch and opposition and ground dimensions. That too 2 wrist spinners?

 

No wrist spinner can give you both all the time. In fact, no bowler can. 

 

Zampa got smashed for 113 and he's been the best ODI spinner for quite some time. 

 

Did Australia even talk about dropping him? lol. 

 

They played him in every match regardless. That's how you show faith in your wicket taking bowlers and especially wristspinners.

 

Look at Adil Rashid's evolution . In his first two years, Rashid got hit in plenty of matches at very high rates. 

 

Morgan didnt give a rats behind about that.  He just encouraged him to keep attacking and give him 2/3 wickets in the middle overs. 

 

Whatever your wicket taking bowlers couldn't give, it was up to the batting to get. Simple. 

 

In our set up, wicket taking bowlers have to somehow find a way to not only take wickets but control the rate at all times as well. 

 

This under the supposedly aggresive, macho, alpha male duo of Kohli /Shastri  that often publicly claimed to back wicket taking bowlers no mattered.

 

Basically, so called spin allrounder could just keep the runs down as "support " bowler and not add to the batting depth,  old keeper was used only for his keeping skills and for his eternal cricketing wisdom without adding much to batting and the Top 3 could bat at a snails pace without embracing any risk in the powerplay and then head towards a middle-of-the road score while refusing to add any part time bowling to allow extra batter to increase depth because they didn't want to risk injury apparently. 

 

Basically, bowlers have to embrace all the risk and get all the stick if the team failed. 

 

The legendary Kohli/Shastri duo of playing LOI cricket .

 

 

Contrary to the clown show that he has become I agree, it would be remiss to not admit that there was a period of a few years where Chahal deserved a look in in the team as a wrist spinner and he did not seemingly wilt under the pressure of being hit and suffer a lack fo confidence like Kuldeep did which is why evn when the latter got dropped he kept his place in the team for a long time. Other than that he TM and not Chahal have to be blamed for not having the right strategy and long term vision in mind which would have allowed them to unequivocally back someone else who was supposed to do his role. 

[Nikhil_cric]

36 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

Contrary to the clown show that he has become I agree, it would be remiss to not admit that there was a period of a few years where Chahal deserved a look in in the team as a wrist spinner and he did not seemingly wilt under the pressure of being hit and suffer a lack fo confidence like Kuldeep did which is why evn when the latter got dropped he kept his place in the team for a long time. Other than that he TM and not Chahal have to be blamed for not having the right strategy and long term vision in mind which would have allowed them to unequivocally back someone else who was supposed to do his role. 

It's about knowing what the team needs, role clarity and communicating it to the player.

 

NZ is a great example. They don't have endless supply of domestic talent to treat cricketers like trash. 

 

Ish Sodhi had played for years but recently he has worked on bowling quicker and restricting the batters by working on his run up speed and bowling more overspin and keeping it straight and tight.

 

The team is very clear about what they want - shorter , flatter and not letting batters get under .

 

Basically, there's no wicket taking threat in their bowling after new ball overs by Boult and Henry.   

 

They're looking to stack the batting with Santner coming in at 8 and hit above par, attack with new ball pair and keep it as tight as possible in the middle overs with Santner/Sodhi keeping it tight and looking to use scoreboard pressure to crack teams open. 

 

Sodhi knows exactly what his role is and what work he needs to do to get there.

 

Because with NZ resources , it's the only thing that might work. 

 

 

There's no chance that Kohli/Shastri ever communicated anything along those lines.

 

Their only template was

 

1. Top 3 will bat deep

2. Bowlers, go take wickets. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vk1]

19 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

It's about knowing what the team needs, role clarity and communicating it to the player.

 

NZ is a great example. They don't have endless supply of domestic talent to treat cricketers like trash. 

 

Ish Sodhi had played for years but recently he has worked on bowling quicker and restricting the batters by working on his run up speed and bowling more overspin and keeping it straight and tight.

 

The team is very clear about what they want - shorter , flatter and not letting batters get under .

 

Basically, there's no wicket taking threat in their bowling after new ball overs by Boult and Henry.   

 

They're looking to stack the batting with Santner coming in at 8 and hit above par, attack with new ball pair and keep it as tight as possible in the middle overs with Santner/Sodhi keeping it tight and looking to use scoreboard pressure to crack teams open. 

 

Sodhi knows exactly what his role is and what work he needs to do to get there.

 

Because with NZ resources , it's the only thing that might work. 

 

 

There's no chance that Kohli/Shastri ever communicated anything along those lines.

 

Their only template was

 

1. Top 3 will bat deep

2. Bowlers, go take wickets. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

but still NZ were very very lucky in that worldcup with draw ( playing minnows first & rained out game against us ) until the last 30 mins

[Lord]

One of the most overhyped players

[rollingstoned]

26 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

It's about knowing what the team needs, role clarity and communicating it to the player.

 

NZ is a great example. They don't have endless supply of domestic talent to treat cricketers like trash. 

 

Ish Sodhi had played for years but recently he has worked on bowling quicker and restricting the batters by working on his run up speed and bowling more overspin and keeping it straight and tight.

 

The team is very clear about what they want - shorter , flatter and not letting batters get under .

 

Basically, there's no wicket taking threat in their bowling after new ball overs by Boult and Henry.   

 

They're looking to stack the batting with Santner coming in at 8 and hit above par, attack with new ball pair and keep it as tight as possible in the middle overs with Santner/Sodhi keeping it tight and looking to use scoreboard pressure to crack teams open. 

 

Sodhi knows exactly what his role is and what work he needs to do to get there.

 

Because with NZ resources , it's the only thing that might work. 

 

 

There's no chance that Kohli/Shastri ever communicated anything along those lines.

 

Their only template was

 

1. Top 3 will bat deep

2. Bowlers, go take wickets. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sometimes a lack of choices is a boon. With more resources at your disposal you will tend to stick to tried and tested - maybe even stale - templates like the ones you have mentioned above and allow things to stagnate due to complacency. 

[Nikhil_cric]

9 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

 

but still NZ were very very lucky in that worldcup with draw ( playing minnows first & rained out game against us ) until the last 30 mins

Tough chase on that wicket and no left hander in that top order to counter that inwards movement.

 

Also that top 3 strategy of taking everything deep meant we couldn't develop middle order batters. 

[diga]

3 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

You were shocked? lol Moment Ashwin's name was announced i expected this from 2 guys. Bhajji and Yuvraj. Bhajji almost instantly hyperventilated on twitter. Yuvi is a touch late. Otherwise predictable.

Not only Bhajji & Yuvi, most North Indians in the Indian cricket team never supported Ashwin as much as they support Chahal ... Inspite of that, Ashwin has achieved so much over the years. 

[prudent_kreeda]

8 minutes ago, diga said:

Not only Bhajji & Yuvi, most North Indians in the Indian cricket team never supported Ashwin as much as they support Chahal ... Inspite of that, Ashwin has achieved so much over the years. 

Not only Northie players but also most of northie commies 

[Lord]

3 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

You were shocked? lol Moment Ashwin's name was announced i expected this from 2 guys. Bhajji and Yuvraj. Bhajji almost instantly hyperventilated on twitter. Yuvi is a touch late. Otherwise predictable.

 

Eh? clearly said he wanted him ahead of 4th pacer. Not a terrible take after all the backing Chahal as got.

[bowl_out]

4 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

You were shocked? lol Moment Ashwin's name was announced i expected this from 2 guys. Bhajji and Yuvraj. Bhajji almost instantly hyperventilated on twitter. Yuvi is a touch late. Otherwise predictable.

 

Bhajji understandable, but why Yuvi?

[R!TTER]

2 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

There's no chance that Kohli/Shastri ever communicated anything along those lines.

 

Their only template was

 

1. Top 3 will bat deep

2. Bowlers, go take wickets. 

Chahaal is a certified mental Midget, anyone who runs away from the ball while fielding or catching should not don national colors!

[Need4Speed]

unless Chahal develops some batting skills overnight..he should not be in the future too

[vvvslaxman]

7 hours ago, bowl_out said:

 

Bhajji understandable, but why Yuvi?

 

Oh you don't know the story. Infact i opened thread on that.  When Ashwin was PKXI captain he dropped Yuvi from one match owing to poor run. Interviewer asked him "is Yuvi rested".  Ashwin said something like  "No he was dropped". Since then Yuvi and Bhajji tag teamed and are attacking Ashwin at every chance.

[bowl_out]

13 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Oh you don't know the story. Infact i opened thread on that.  When Ashwin was PKXI captain he dropped Yuvi from one match owing to poor run. Interviewer asked him "is Yuvi rested".  Ashwin said something like  "No he was dropped". Since then Yuvi and Bhajji tag teamed and are attacking Ashwin at every chance.

Ah, now it rings a bell as you mention this story.. No wonder Yuvi is sour 

[vvvslaxman]

15 hours ago, Need4Speed said:

unless Chahal develops some batting skills overnight..he should not be in the future too

We all kno2 what "skill: chahal is developing

[Gollum]

Ravichandran Ashwin name is enough @ashwinravi99 #Legend #INDvsAUS

— Yuzvendra Chahal (@yuzi_chahal) September 24, 2023

 

At least he was sporting despite getting dropped. 

Sorry, just wasn't good enough, should never play for us again. 72 ODIs, 80 T20Is, lots of money/fame cos of IPL, will play IPL for few more years, hot wife, what more does a man want?

[Adamant]

Let me clarify first that he is rightly dropped and Kuldeep is defo the right choice.

Now lets see some stats

Chahal averages 27 at eco of 5.27 and str rate of 30. 5w 2 times

Lets see the corresponding stats for other supposedly GREAT spinners who according to ICFERS are on a different level to him :

GOAT Adil Rashid
Avg 32.4 eco 5.67 str rate 34.3 5w 2 times

The modern great Adam Zampa
Avg 29.3 eco 5.53 str rate 31.5. 5w 1 time

Legend Shadab Khan
Avg32, eco 5.17 str rate 38. 5w 0 times


Tabraiz Shamsi
Avg 32.5 str rate 35.5 eco 5.50. 5w 1 time

Ish Sodhi
Avg 36 str rate 39 eco 5.5


Okay but these are just regular loi stats, Chahal is useless in important tourneys and matches

World cup 2019 stats (which was probably the worst world cup for spinners)

Chahal avg 36 eco 5.97 
GOAT Adil Rashid avg 48 eco 5.6
The modern great Adam Zampa avg 47 eco 7.11
Prodigy Rashid Khan avg 48 eco 5.7
Shadab avg 36 eco 5.5

Moeen ali avg 46 eco 5.4


Chahal is nowhere near being a great odi bowler or even a shoo - in our lineup but people are unnecessary hating on him bcoz of his off-field antics.

If Chahal had a horrible ODI career then there is no other spinner in the world (since 2015) who had a good odi career, bcoz Chahal not only has better overall stats than them but also has better performances in the major event.

The hate is unnecessary and he has had a fine career, infact I will go on to say that he had a better ODI career than any other spinner since 2015.
Also, people may find it annoying and maybe even funny but Chahal is up there amongst the top three ODI spinners India has produced, I challenge all to refute this in any way possible (using stats and not hypothtetical scenarios)

 

[vvvslaxman]

24 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Let me clarify first that he is rightly dropped and Kuldeep is defo the right choice.

Now lets see some stats

Chahal averages 27 at eco of 5.27 and str rate of 30. 5w 2 times

Lets see the corresponding stats for other supposedly GREAT spinners who according to ICFERS are on a different level to him :

GOAT Adil Rashid
Avg 32.4 eco 5.67 str rate 34.3 5w 2 times

The modern great Adam Zampa
Avg 29.3 eco 5.53 str rate 31.5. 5w 1 time

Legend Shadab Khan
Avg32, eco 5.17 str rate 38. 5w 0 times


Tabraiz Shamsi
Avg 32.5 str rate 35.5 eco 5.50. 5w 1 time

Ish Sodhi
Avg 36 str rate 39 eco 5.5


Okay but these are just regular loi stats, Chahal is useless in important tourneys and matches

World cup 2019 stats (which was probably the worst world cup for spinners)

Chahal avg 36 eco 5.97 
GOAT Adil Rashid avg 48 eco 5.6
The modern great Adam Zampa avg 47 eco 7.11
Prodigy Rashid Khan avg 48 eco 5.7
Shadab avg 36 eco 5.5

Moeen ali avg 46 eco 5.4


Chahal is nowhere near being a great odi bowler or even a shoo - in our lineup but people are unnecessary hating on him bcoz of his off-field antics.

If Chahal had a horrible ODI career then there is no other spinner in the world (since 2015) who had a good odi career, bcoz Chahal not only has better overall stats than them but also has better performances in the major event.

The hate is unnecessary and he has had a fine career, infact I will go on to say that he had a better ODI career than any other spinner since 2015.
Also, people may find it annoying and maybe even funny but Chahal is up there amongst the top three ODI spinners India has produced, I challenge all to refute this in any way possible (using stats and not hypothtetical scenarios)

 

 

Rohit clearly mentioned he wanted someone who can bat a bit. Chahal brings absolutely nothing else to the table. The day he gets hit his usefulness ends. He generally misfields and doesn' go for catches. He doesn't bat. Can't bowl with wet ball.