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Trichromatic

By Trichromatic
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MechEng Veteran

MechEng

Posted
Posted

@sandeep there is such strong desperation to prove that Pak downed 5-7 jets that they are trying to extract names of deceased pilots from Bharat Rakshak. Also some gora youtubers are putting out complex theories as an "evidence".

 

Agar proof hota, they wouldn't have had to work this hard :wp1:

Lone Wolf Grand Master

Lone Wolf

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, MechEng said:

@sandeep there is such strong desperation to prove that Pak downed 5-7 jets that they are trying to extract names of deceased pilots from Bharat Rakshak. Also some gora youtubers are putting out complex theories as an "evidence".

 

Agar proof hota, they wouldn't have had to work this hard :wp1:

I think DGMO's never actually clarified that point.  It's still up in the air.

In such a contested air space losing an odd jet is no big deal anyways.

 

We destroyed their SAM units and bombed their Hangars and key military installations with precision.  That was a W.

 

Every such  event is a learning for both sides.   PAF got cocky after 2019 and paid the price in 2025.  

coffee_rules Grand Master

coffee_rules

Posted
Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

I think DGMO's never actually clarified that point.  It's still up in the air.

In such a contested air space losing an odd jet is no big deal anyways.

 

We destroyed their SAM units and bombed their Hangars and key military installations with precision.  That was a W.

 

Every such  event is a learning for both sides.   PAF got cocky after 2019 and paid the price in 2025.  

 

India will never accept if it lost a Rafale, if it did. It is vital to our national security and risks the IAF in the next escalation.  Comman man need not know, IAF, GoI can take appropriate action and hope it does. Also, it has become political with Congress making it a big deal since 2019, if GoI accepts that it lost a Rafale, RaGa will make it a political issue for all elections. 

 

There is also some semblence to a story , where India says it flew ,decoy drone airplanes that mimiced the infrared radar signature of its jets and Pak may have shot it and they thought that they shot our high speed fighter jets. 

 

https://iafhistory.in/2025/05/20/the-partridge-that-fooled-the-paf-the-iafs-aerial-ghost/

Banshee_Sanhay-e1748487706982.webp

 

 

 

Edited by coffee_rules
ravishingravi Grand Master

ravishingravi

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, MechEng said:

@Lone Wolf @coffee_rules

 

I think our DGMOs played smart by not answering the question. If they confirmed that no rafales were lost, that would have given the enemy an indication that decoy drones were used and we would not be in the position to apply this strategy again in future.

 

This is my hunch as well. More than anything I am looking at the evidence that has been presented by both sides. It is in India's interest to give them an off ramp. It was in Pakistan's interest to show all the Rafael's brought down with some evidence which they didn't.

 

Rest samajhdhar ko ishara kaafi hai.

singhvivek141 Grand Master

singhvivek141

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

India will never accept if it lost a Rafale, if it did. It is vital to our national security and risks the IAF in the next escalation.  Comman man need not know, IAF, GoI can take appropriate action and hope it does. Also, it has become political with Congress making it a big deal since 2019, if GoI accepts that it lost a Rafale, RaGa will make it a political issue for all elections. 

 

Plus, we have the parasites within the country who are ready to mock our faultlines on the social media.

singhvivek141 Grand Master

singhvivek141

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

I think DGMO's never actually clarified that point.  It's still up in the air.

In such a contested air space losing an odd jet is no big deal anyways.

 

We destroyed their SAM units and bombed their Hangars and key military installations with precision.  That was a W.

 

Every such  event is a learning for both sides.   PAF got cocky after 2019 and paid the price in 2025.  

Plus some PAF officers too lost their lives, numbers vary from 5 to 50. 
Pakistan won't accept it, but on SM some Pak users were posting news of the loss of lives. Although, ISPR later acted and controlled the media leaks..

Lone Wolf Grand Master

Lone Wolf

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

India will never accept if it lost a Rafale, if it did. It is vital to our national security and risks the IAF in the next escalation.  Comman man need not know, IAF, GoI can take appropriate action and hope it does. Also, it has become political with Congress making it a big deal since 2019, if GoI accepts that it lost a Rafale, RaGa will make it a political issue for all elections. 

 

There is also some semblence to a story , where India says it flew ,decoy drone airplanes that mimiced the infrared radar signature of its jets and Pak may have shot it and they they they shot our high speed fighter jets. 

 

https://iafhistory.in/2025/05/20/the-partridge-that-fooled-the-paf-the-iafs-aerial-ghost/

Banshee_Sanhay-e1748487706982.webp

 

 

 

Once it all dies down .. Truth will eventually come out.  IAF always accepts it's losses unlike PAF.

We ain't like them.  

Shiv Aroor had to delete the tweet I remember as well and told the same that losing odd jets doesn't matter in such events.

 

Indian defence forums and Bharat Rakshak guys beleive it might have been Rafale but I would only trust IAF on this one As the ops are still not over... We should wait to draw any conclusions other than we managed to inflict serious damage to PAF. All our pilots are safe while they lost dozens of Pilots and workers.

ravishingravi Grand Master

ravishingravi

Posted
Posted

Still trying to understand why loss of few jets is material enough to have a discussion. The level of damage that we have done is incredible. Ok we may have lost 3 or 5 planes. fine. But this is hardly the point for me. Its like I got the opposition out for 100 and chased it in 15 overs with 4 wickets. wickets i.e. not people. People are more important Rafael. Not just for the human factor but because it takes years of investment to develop them. We can buy more Rafaels without blinking.

 

Think its a non issue apart from technical performance evaluation which those incharge would do.  

Laaloo Grand Master

Laaloo

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Found this post.. absolute bone chilling stuff .  Right in the midst of War in 71.. Chammb sector 

Captured Pakistani Colonel had absolute clarity and Indian Major response was well...

 

Last quote

 

'i did not expect that from the Pakistani soldiers"

 

Yeah of course you didn't. Probably didn't read any Indian history for the last 1000 years.

Lone Wolf Grand Master

Lone Wolf

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Laaloo said:

Last quote

 

'i did not expect that from the Pakistani soldiers"

 

Yeah of course you didn't. Probably didn't read any Indian history for the last 1000 years.

Kids of these Majors & jernails are among  the  most rabid woke bunch you can find in India.   They give Bhadraloks a tough competition.

I have been in their circle & I know it very well.

Edited by Lone Wolf
Real McCoy Veteran

Real McCoy

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Kids of these Majors & jernails are among  the  most rabid woke bunch you can find in India.   They give Bhadraloks a tough competition.

I have been in their circle & I know it very well.

 

It only means that these jernails did NOT see any live action like everyone else. just like asi manure on the other side.

Real McCoy Veteran

Real McCoy

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Laaloo said:

Last quote

 

'i did not expect that from the Pakistani soldiers"

 

Yeah of course you didn't. Probably didn't read any Indian history for the last 1000 years.

 

I saw the history of kashmir yesterday. I knew about it but was once again reminded of how brutal it was for the hindu kashmiris for the last millenia

EnterTheVoid Mentor

EnterTheVoid

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, ravishingravi said:

Still trying to understand why loss of few jets is material enough to have a discussion. The level of damage that we have done is incredible. Ok we may have lost 3 or 5 planes. fine. But this is hardly the point for me. Its like I got the opposition out for 100 and chased it in 15 overs with 4 wickets. wickets i.e. not people. People are more important Rafael. Not just for the human factor but because it takes years of investment to develop them. We can buy more Rafaels without blinking.

 

Think its a non issue apart from technical performance evaluation which those incharge would do.  

 

If they shot our jets whilst staying within their territory, then, that is a cause of concern for us.

IndianRenegade Grand Master

IndianRenegade

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, EnterTheVoid said:

 

If they shot our jets whilst staying within their territory, then, that is a cause of concern for us.

of course it is, but we don't know the relevant facts with the level of certainty to draw conclusions.  I think the people at the top are learning the lessons, it was very apparent they did learn the right lessons after the post balakot  events.

 

But circumstantial evidence lends credence to the view espoused by Tom Cooper. Any IAF losses on May 7th are probably due to its ROE, IAF was probably told not to engage PAF until fired upon. Once Pak military targets became kosher, you could see PAF was almost irrelevant, IAF hit PAF bases with impunity in an active war unlike on May 7th when there was no conflict between the forces. Where was PAF? if they were in the air, it was irrelevant as they could neither thwart IAF attacks nor successfully deliver any meaningful response on Indian territory. If IAF was given permission to engage PAF with even a limited SEAD operation as we did after May 7th, it would have been an even worse defeat for it.

 

But India being India needed to show it was following an escalatory ladder & was not being irresponsible, but there is a price to pay for it.

Edited by IndianRenegade
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