The most just Superpower (relatively)

[MechEng]

I would have never asked this question before and knew that USA was an easy answer, but ever since they have started playing a double game (schooling on freedom etc. on front and supporting terror in the back), I guess a poll is well deserved here.

 

Note: There is no superpower that I expect to be morally most perfect, but relatively speaking we can figure out who is better morally compared to its competing peers.

Edited June 10, 2025 by MechEng

[Mariyam]

Among these, China. Not that it says much....

 

The Chinese haven't left a big body count in other countries. Not yet at least.

 

All the other Superpowers you mentioned have done that.

 

India will be a just superpower in the next 10-15 years.

[BacktoCricaddict]

4 hours ago, Mariyam said:

left a big body count in other countries.

Have they left enough of a body count in their own? I mean, log log hote hain.

 

My answer - the words "just" and "superpower" = oxymoron.

[diga]

48 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Have they left enough of a body count in their own? I mean, log log hote hain.

 

My answer - the words "just" and "superpower" = oxymoron.

superpower at the cost of "great leap" /  cultural revolution

[sandeep]

5 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Among these, China. Not that it says much....

 

The Chinese haven't left a big body count in other countries. Not yet at least.

 

All the other Superpowers you mentioned have done that.

 

India will be a just superpower in the next 10-15 years.

That's because their body count (thus far) is internal. They haven't yet 'expanded' their empire beyond their borders.

 

However, looking at North Korea and Pakistan - 2 kleptocratic beggar zombie states kept alive by the CCP - one a monopoly and the other an oligopoly - arguably the CCP has had quite the negative impact already without actually possessing an explicit empire. 

[ravishingravi]

Romans perhaps in larger scheme of things. Also the one they bumped off ended up spawning whole new religion. 

[rangeelaraja]

@Mariyam
 

China is a neo-colonial mercantilist state. 
 

A subtle and tiny version of the British empire. 
 

It sucks out natural resources from its victims and its trade relations are mostly about its victims buying Made in China goods that are highly subsidized by the govts. 
 

it is wrong to call it a “just” superpower even relatively because - countries that have partnered with China have only gravely suffered economically through debt, and loss of livelihood as a result of erosion of domestic industries. I can’t think of any exceptions. 
 

Countries that have partnered with the US on the other hand have grown economically all across Asia. China itself is the biggest example of this. The frankestine that China is - is largely due to American corporate greed - that debased its own industrial capacity so that corporates could make billions of dollars of profit. 

[coffee_rules]

I choose NOTA.

[singhvivek141]

Will go with Russia, simply from Indian POV. Dont care the duck about others.

 

Yeah, I know they too have a tainted past, specially their alleged assassination of Lal Bahadur Shastri and their unhindered support to Indira. Also, to some extent the rise of terrorism in India too was courtesy of their attack on Afghanistan.

 

But, usually Russians have supported us in many occasions. Have vetoed many times in Security Council for an action against us, when US was ready to overwhelm our Navy in 1971...USSR came to our support and scared away the US Navy. Despite us choosing the "Non Aligned movement", USSR aligned towards us.

[rangeelaraja]

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

That's because their body count (thus far) is internal. They haven't yet 'expanded' their empire beyond their borders.

 

However, looking at North Korea and Pakistan - 2 kleptocratic beggar zombie states kept alive by the CCP - one a monopoly and the other an oligopoly - arguably the CCP has had quite the negative impact already without actually possessing an explicit empire. 

 

IMO, due to China’s role in COVID  the body bags are more than any country in history.
 

Chinas style of delivering bodybags is not via hard kinetic warfare where it also suffers enormous collateral damage - but using indirect means - like spreading disease and through other biological means. 

There is no greater evil in the world than these yellow slit eyed thugs. 
 

The entire stupidy of the West especially Europe in targeting and needling Russia through NATO expansion will go down as the stupidest strategic thinking  - when the entire civilized world faces a major threat in many cases existential from China and their CCP minions.

 

its very clear that the rest of the world cannot co-exist with CCP. 
 

Overthrowing CCP is the most important outcome (out of several others ) to guarantee world peace. 
 

 

Edited June 10, 2025 by rangeelaraja

[MechEng]

8 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Will go with Russia, simply from Indian POV. Dont care the duck about others.

 

Yeah, I know they too have a tainted past, specially their alleged assassination of Lal Bahadur Shastri and their unhindered support to Indira. Also, to some extent the rise of terrorism in India too was courtesy of their attack on Afghanistan.

 

But, usually Russians have supported us in many occasions. Have vetoed many times in Security Council for an action against us, when US was ready to overwhelm our Navy in 1971...USSR came to our support and scared away the US Navy. Despite us choosing the "Non Aligned movement", USSR aligned towards us.

 

That assassination had a CIA angle to it and not KGB though. 

 

Rise of terrorism in India is all US creation, the project MK Ultra style brainwashing of Taliban taught Pak army the art of brainwashing their qaum and creating terrorists.

 

Soviets were not necessarily the nicest but arguably among the most honest of superpowers. They never supported terror groups or indulged in asymmetrical warfare. Stalin was evil, but apart from him I cannot think too negative about the Soviet Union.

[Gollum]

Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan vs Afghanistan, Iraq.....now Syria too joins in. You choose who has left a better legacy, Soviets or Yanks. Albeit dictatorships, former two have seen peace, tolerance, women empowerment (their labour force participation, education metrics ahead of India), 100% literacy, embrace of modernity, no strict dress code, scientific temperament, emphasis on education, rejection of terrorism. In fact, Central Asia is heavily Muslim majority (Taimur, Babur from there, are national heroes), but don't see trouble emanating from any of those countries (include Taj, Kyrg, Turkm), despite sharing borders with Afg/Pak/Xinjiang/Iran. They don't act like thekedars of Islam or foment unrest in far flung countries, in fact keep religion a private thing, don't impose their beliefs on others. Have interacted with these folks a lot right from childhood, can say from personal experience as well, they are modern and progressive in their outlook/manners, and USSR deserves a lot of credit for that.

 

Had Soviets won in Afghanistan, trajectory of South Asia would be so much better now. 

Edited June 11, 2025 by Gollum

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, MechEng said:

 

That assassination had a CIA angle to it and not KGB though.

Probably, thats why I mentioned allegedly.

Both sides have their pros and considerations.

 

Thing is Indira was heavily in favour of KGB/USSR....Lal Bahadur Shastri was more neutral in that sense. The aggression shown by India during Indo-Pak war in 1965, had popularized Shastriji in India. KGB, which wanted its own puppet Indira in power had to resort to these tactics.

 

However, looking at the other side, USSR/KGB cant afford the death of a PM in their own territory, that will bring much needed shame and bad mouth to their internal defences. Hence even if CIA did that, KGB kept its mouth shut to escape criticism. India being weak enough wasnt able to ask questions.

 

 

[Gollum]

Ability is one thing, luck does play a part, but can't become a superpower without having elements of evil...... imperialistic design, heartlessness, propensity to exploit others, absence of remorse and soul searching. That is why India will never become one, and that is perfectly ok. Let dharma guide our actions.

Edited June 11, 2025 by Gollum

[singhvivek141]

13 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan vs Afghanistan, Iraq.....now Syria too joins in. You choose who has left a better legacy, Soviets or Yanks. Albeit dictatorships, former two have seen peace, tolerance, women empowerment (their labour force participation, education metrics ahead of India), 100% literacy, embrace of modernity, no strict dress code, scientific temperament, emphasis on education, rejection of terrorism. In fact, Central Asia is heavily Muslim majority (Taimur, Babur from there, are national heroes), but don't see trouble emanating from any of those countries (include Taj, Kyrg, Turkm), despite sharing borders with Afg/Pak/Xinjiang/Iran. They don't act like thekedars of Islam or foment unrest in far flung countries, in fact keep religion a private thing, don't impose their beliefs on others. Have interacted with these folks a lot right from childhood, can say from personal experience as well, they are modern and progressive in their outlook/manners, and USSR deserves a lot of credit for that.

 

Had Soviets won in Afghanistan, trajectory of South Asia would be so much better now. 

That's coz US don't have any geographical boundary with the central asian countries, while Russia has.
US don't care if that region even burn to ashes, as long as the fire is away from North America, they are fine. Russia won't live to have turbulence on their borders.
Even during the Cold War era aswell, all the battles were fought either in Europe or in Asia...while North America/South America remained comparatively peaceful.

[MechEng]

4 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

That's coz US don't have any geographical boundary with the central asian countries, while Russia has.
US don't care if that region even burn to ashes, as long as the fire is away from North America, they are fine. Russia won't live to have turbulence on their borders.
Even during the Cold War era aswell, all the battles were fought either in Europe or in Asia...while North America/South America remained comparatively peaceful.

 

But you can get brief visibility on how the Soviets would have treated foreign colonies if they sailed to other shores by observing their treatment of Cuba and Vietnam. 

 

They were blunt/cold and did not flatter like Americans, but at the same time they were honest and did not use deception.

 

All this space race nonsense was begun by America because they were getting insecure of Soviet research work. 

[BacktoCricaddict]

7 hours ago, Gollum said:

Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan vs Afghanistan, Iraq.....now Syria too joins in. You choose who has left a better legacy, Soviets or Yanks. Albeit dictatorships, former two have seen peace, tolerance, women empowerment (their labour force participation, education metrics ahead of India), 100% literacy, embrace of modernity, no strict dress code, scientific temperament, emphasis on education, rejection of terrorism. In fact, Central Asia is heavily Muslim majority (Taimur, Babur from there, are national heroes), but don't see trouble emanating from any of those countries (include Taj, Kyrg, Turkm), despite sharing borders with Afg/Pak/Xinjiang/Iran. They don't act like thekedars of Islam or foment unrest in far flung countries, in fact keep religion a private thing, don't impose their beliefs on others. Have interacted with these folks a lot right from childhood, can say from personal experience as well, they are modern and progressive in their outlook/manners, and USSR deserves a lot of credit for that.

 

Had Soviets won in Afghanistan, trajectory of South Asia would be so much better now. 

Great insights. Thank you for posting this! 

[sandeep]

On 6/10/2025 at 1:07 PM, rangeelaraja said:

 

IMO, due to China’s role in COVID  the body bags are more than any country in history.
 

Chinas style of delivering bodybags is not via hard kinetic warfare where it also suffers enormous collateral damage - but using indirect means - like spreading disease and through other biological means. 

There is no greater evil in the world than these yellow slit eyed thugs. 
 

The entire stupidy of the West especially Europe in targeting and needling Russia through NATO expansion will go down as the stupidest strategic thinking  - when the entire civilized world faces a major threat in many cases existential from China and their CCP minions.

 

its very clear that the rest of the world cannot co-exist with CCP. 
 

Overthrowing CCP is the most important outcome (out of several others ) to guarantee world peace. 
 

 

The SARS pandemic saw the WHO realize that the Chinese Communist party blatantly broke existing rules that saw the epidemic spread beyond its borders. They made new rules, and gave the CCP a pass on that one.  

 

Only for the Chinese to screw over the entire planet with Covid.  When travel from Wuhan was completely banned to everywhere in China, the Chinese allowed international flights to continue. For days.  

 

The fact that the chinese were given a free pass on their murderous behavior is something that history will eventually judge harshly.

 

[coffee_rules]

14 hours ago, Gollum said:

Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan vs Afghanistan, Iraq.....now Syria too joins in. You choose who has left a better legacy, Soviets or Yanks. Albeit dictatorships, former two have seen peace, tolerance, women empowerment (their labour force participation, education metrics ahead of India), 100% literacy, embrace of modernity, no strict dress code, scientific temperament, emphasis on education, rejection of terrorism. In fact, Central Asia is heavily Muslim majority (Taimur, Babur from there, are national heroes), but don't see trouble emanating from any of those countries (include Taj, Kyrg, Turkm), despite sharing borders with Afg/Pak/Xinjiang/Iran. They don't act like thekedars of Islam or foment unrest in far flung countries, in fact keep religion a private thing, don't impose their beliefs on others. Have interacted with these folks a lot right from childhood, can say from personal experience as well, they are modern and progressive in their outlook/manners, and USSR deserves a lot of credit for that.

 

Had Soviets won in Afghanistan, trajectory of South Asia would be so much better now. 

Iraq? Or did you mean Iran?  Soviets had no game in Iraq.  In Iran, they are helping with their nuclear reactors read bomb and want to use them to fights aginst NATO.  Soviets post cold-war have no noble causes to back any vassal state. Like any other super power they have vest interests. They lost in Syria, just like they did in Afghanistan. Let zbekistan, Kazakhstan align politically with NATO, they will treat tham like how they did to Ukrainse.

[MechEng]

10 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Iraq? Or did you mean Iran?  Soviets had no game in Iraq.  In Iran, they are helping with their nuclear reactors read bomb and want to use them to fights aginst NATO.  Soviets post cold-war have no noble causes to back any vassal state. Like any other super power they have vest interests. They lost in Syria, just like they did in Afghanistan. Let zbekistan, Kazakhstan align politically with NATO, they will treat tham like how they did to Ukrainse.

 

No, that post implies how muslim countries under American influence turn out to be in the long term - middle eastern nations like Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Syria. This compared to central asian muslim countries under Soviets, that although are still developing but have not devolved into a complete basket case of countries. Azerbaijan can be excused due to their hostility against Armenia, but other than that all the stans such as Kazakh, Uzbek, Kyrgyz, Tajik, Turkmen are muslims but take pride in their Soviet and Persian heritage without being thekedars of Islam.