Ex player questions Gambhir s attempts to forcefully create all rounders?

[Malcolm Merlyn]

 

[tweaker]

Allrounders and wicket keeper batsman 

[vishalvirsingh]

where he is going wrong is Genuine Pace Allrounders is a very rare breed.

maintaining speed requires lot of repeat action and energy , if a player bowls fast he has less time to practice batting ( he i exhausted 

Note ..Manoj Prabhakar and Kapil dev were trundlers and All rounders.

 

see history---or just write name of 145k bowlers..give me one All rounder...

[zen]

If or when the criticizing ex cricketer himself becomes a a coach, he would showcase his own “negatives” as a coach. 

People expect India to play cricket they feel how it should be played (as almost everyone is an “expert” in India in theory) so whoever is the coach is criticized.  
 

 

 

[putrevus]

3 hours ago, vishalvirsingh said:

where he is going wrong is Genuine Pace Allrounders is a very rare breed.

maintaining speed requires lot of repeat action and energy , if a player bowls fast he has less time to practice batting ( he i exhausted 

Note ..Manoj Prabhakar and Kapil dev were trundlers and All rounders.

 

see history---or just write name of 145k bowlers..give me one All rounder...

Who told you Kapil Dev was trundler. He had enough pace early in his career, he was not Michael Holding but he had enough pace.

 

When you keep bowing more overs without any respite even Holding would become trundler.

 

 

Kapil was a natural stroke maker who was fearless batsman, you don’t become Kapil Dev by practicing.

 

Don’t put Kapil and Prabhakar in same sentence.

Edited Saturday at 10:54 AM by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

I am not sure he is creating all rounders. He is picking players who can do a bit of both. In ODIs everyone wanted depth. But it is missing because our batsmen do not bowl to save their lives, batsmen cannot bat. This is why guys like Pandya  take his own little sweet break come back straight to ICC events without any practice.Same with other all rounders. Creating all rounders is asking batsmen to practice bowling and vice versa. That is not happening here. Atleast SKY was tossing the ball to others. With Iyer/GIll it is not the csae.

[BCCISelector]

I don't mind India testing bits and pieces all-rounders in pointless bilaterals. When we lost Hardik midway through 2023 WC, we were forced to make two changes to a settled team as we hadn't created any backup option in the leadup to the tournament.

Ideally, these all-rounders should emerge as finished products before they get into the Indian team. But the impact player rule in IPL has almost completely cut the supply of all-rounders in white-ball cricket, forcing the Indian team to test them in bilaterals.

[vishalvirsingh]

5 hours ago, putrevus said:

Who told you Kapil Dev was trundler. He had enough pace early in his career, he was not Michael Holding but he had enough pace.

 

When you keep bowing more overs without any respite even Holding would become trundler.

 

Kapil was a natural stroke maker who was fearless batsman, you don’t become Kapil Dev by practicing.

 

Don’t put Kapil and Prabhakar in same sentence.

i m a jaat and i was a big fan of Kapil but a i unearthed certain reason when i met a UP cricketer who played for UP state . he wa one of the main coaches in UP and he said Kapil is detroying Pacers, and i saw after that he only allowed Chetan sharma to play. there were so many pacers i can name many and none became big.

i know raju kulkarni,sanjeev harma,vivek razdan and so many .even srinath came later then he should have come.

Kapil had a tendency to not let any challenger come into india 15. chetan was his bhakt o he played. Madan lal , Binny were all slow bowler with skills.

 

point i made is 145k was srinath , umesh, ZAK at the peak of their career...none of them were all rounder. even harshit bowl 145k sometime and he i not an Allrounder, though he ha potential. KD's devilish acts have been hidden , yograj and many other pacers who had potential were never given opportunities.

Just notice he should have retired at leat 3 years b4 , actually after his knee injury he was a 120 to 129k pacer amd earlier he was 120 to 135K pacer exactlylike BHuvi...bhuvi had more inwing then kapil ..kapil had outwing too so batmen were cautiou off him. He was good but he hould have retired after his knee operation and ye he was always a good stroke player.

 

[singhvivek141]

9 hours ago, vishalvirsingh said:

where he is going wrong is Genuine Pace Allrounders is a very rare breed.

maintaining speed requires lot of repeat action and energy , if a player bowls fast he has less time to practice batting ( he i exhausted 

Note ..Manoj Prabhakar and Kapil dev were trundlers and All rounders.

 

see history---or just write name of 145k bowlers..give me one All rounder...

 

Not sure about 145k..but 140s are a few...although they slowed down later due to age/injuries/focus on one dept 

 

Andrew Flintoff

Shane Watson 

Hardik Pandya

Ben Stokes

Chris Cairns

Cameroon Green

Jacques Kallis

 

There are some though who bowled at 145k and contributed with bat. They wont be called as an "allrounder"..but they were no mug with bat either.

 

Mitchell Starc

Brett Lee

Mitchell Johnson

Ryan Harris

Malcolm Marshall

Pat Cummins

 

List dominated by Australians..shows how good they are genuinely with sports and fitness.

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, vishalvirsingh said:

i m a jaat and i was a big fan of Kapil but a i unearthed certain reason when i met a UP cricketer who played for UP state . he wa one of the main coaches in UP and he said Kapil is detroying Pacers, and i saw after that he only allowed Chetan sharma to play. there were so many pacers i can name many and none became big.

i know raju kulkarni,sanjeev harma,vivek razdan and so many .even srinath came later then he should have come.

Kapil had a tendency to not let any challenger come into india 15. chetan was his bhakt o he played. Madan lal , Binny were all slow bowler with skills.

 

point i made is 145k was srinath , umesh, ZAK at the peak of their career...none of them were all rounder. even harshit bowl 145k sometime and he i not an Allrounder, though he ha potential. KD's devilish acts have been hidden , yograj and many other pacers who had potential were never given opportunities.

Just notice he should have retired at leat 3 years b4 , actually after his knee injury he was a 120 to 129k pacer amd earlier he was 120 to 135K pacer exactlylike BHuvi...bhuvi had more inwing then kapil ..kapil had outwing too so batmen were cautiou off him. He was good but he hould have retired after his knee operation and ye he was always a good stroke player.

 

Till date  Kapil Dev is still greatest cricketer from India, please don't compare willy nilly guys with him.

 

Harshit was trundling in during his second and third spell in his first two tests around low 130s.Let him avg 140  ten over spell in odis first before we call him 145 bowler.He is a disgrace for a fast bowler with his flab .He is a bowler who can bat at number 9, Srinath had better batting potential than him anyday.

 

KD easily could have reached 140 plus when he started in 1978.He had one of the greatest outswingers as he grew older he cut his pace down for self preservation

 

I disagree on Yograj being not given chances, you earn your chances.IMO Yograj was a bum who acts as world owes him favours.

 

I also disagree on Kapil denying chances to others, Razdan was flash in the pan who had one decent innings. Sanjeev Sharma was medium pacer not a fast bowler , so was Raju Kulkarni and had no control and was short like Chetan, he was never going to succeeed with his skills.

 

Kapil was better athlete than even Umesh and he was strike and stock bowler like Manju said many times even in 1991 Australian tour ,he would bowl long first spell ( he had great series with ball, KD said many times he redisovered joy in his bowling again during that tour ) but runs would be leaking on both ends but he would be called  by Azhar to control flow of runs.

 

If he was not burdened by heavy bowling work loads he would have scored 2000 runs more plus would have better bowling average. Srinath was playing every where other than home series against England and Srilanka.if I am not wrong about stats India played like just 6 to 7 home test from 1991-1994 . That is when home spinners started to rule under Azhar so there was no room for Srinath and it was correct call.

 

Yes he could have retired after SA tour in 1993 but he was so close to the record .He scored one of the greatest test hundreds with one hand by any Indian batsman during that tour against Fiery Allan Donald walking in at 31/5 and scored 129 the next best score was 17 which included Sachin so cannot complain him carrying on till 1994.

 

KD was no ordinary player, he still one of top 15-20 players in history of the game.

 

1980s Indian team is very good example of bits and pieces players not helping team win tests matches.

 

Roger Binny, Madan lal, Shastri, even guys like Sandhu , Chetan Sharma could bat.Most of them had FC 100s but they got exposed in tests. Binny could swing the ball so was very good in away odis and played vital role along with Madan Lal in both 1983 world cup and WCC in 1985.If Binny played for England he would have been very good.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 07:11 PM by putrevus

[tapandrun]

14 hours ago, vishalvirsingh said:

where he is going wrong is Genuine Pace Allrounders is a very rare breed.

maintaining speed requires lot of repeat action and energy , if a player bowls fast he has less time to practice batting ( he i exhausted 

Note ..Manoj Prabhakar and Kapil dev were trundlers and All rounders.

 

see history---or just write name of 145k bowlers..give me one All rounder...

 

The situation is diff in Ind cricketing system , if your team's main bowlers are sub 130 kmph you are not going to find a 135+kmph bowling allrounder.

As soon as such player will come to side, the coaches will rightly ask them to concentrate on bowling than batting.

 

You get decent pace allrounders only when the main bowlers are fairly quick. The Ind domestic system does not support high pace bowler and works well for sub 130 kmph bowlers why would someone be bowling 140+kmph and bat too???

 

 

Edited Saturday at 10:03 PM by tapandrun

[tapandrun]

9 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

I am not sure he is creating all rounders. He is picking players who can do a bit of both. In ODIs everyone wanted depth. But it is missing because our batsmen do not bowl to save their lives, batsmen cannot bat. This is why guys like Pandya  take his own little sweet break come back straight to ICC events without any practice.Same with other all rounders. Creating all rounders is asking batsmen to practice bowling and vice versa. That is not happening here. Atleast SKY was tossing the ball to others. With Iyer/GIll it is not the csae.

Think Pandaya has real injury issues. If he was fit he could have been the captain for atleast 1 format. 

 

Odis is best format for allrounders, more you have more options opens up. Right now Nz has lot of options lot of allrounders and that open up lot of options. They can play nearly same side in both sena and sc conditions without making much changes to the side and its reflects in their performances in Intnl cricket and big events.

 

The thing is Nz allrounders have very strong primary skill. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 09:59 PM by tapandrun

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

Think Pandaya has real injury issues. If he was fit he could have been the captain for atleast 1 format. 

 

Odis is best format for allrounders, more you have more options opens up. Right now Nz has lot of options lot of allrounders and that open up lot of options. They can play nearly same side in both sena and sc conditions without making much changes to the side and its reflects in their performances in Intnl cricket and big events.

 

The thing is Nz allrounders have very strong primary skill. 

 

 

 

 

 

We only focus on two areas forgetting about fielding. Ironically all rounders are better fielders especially seam bowling ones.  Hardik, Nitish reddy,  Ramandeep all 3 are gun fielders in the outfield. Reddy has so much potential if only he improves his shot selection in batting. He definitely bowls consistently faster than most trundlers. He can swing too. He can hit big both spin and pace. After Pandya he is the closest in all 3 departments.

[tapandrun]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

We only focus on two areas forgetting about fielding. Ironically all rounders are better fielders especially seam bowling ones.  Hardik, Nitish reddy,  Ramandeep all 3 are gun fielders in the outfield. Reddy has so much potential if only he improves his shot selection in batting. He definitely bowls consistently faster than most trundlers. He can swing too. He can hit big both spin and pace. After Pandya he is the closest in all 3 departments.

Fielding standrads are all time low. even when Ind didnt had fast movers they were v.good catcher .but now there are lot of slow movers and they can not even hold on to catches.

 

Ind overall can be worse fielding side. Even the newer players are slow movers. These days safe fielder is skill in Ind crkt system. 

 

Reddy has potential, he should play few games along side Pandaya. Allrounders have diff mindset, he needs to learn about it.

 

 

 

[jf1gp_1]

What does badri want ? 5 batsmen 1 keeper and 5 bowler team ?

[Vk1]

You don't do that in tests.. ok to an extent in odis.. absolutely okay in t20s

[Vk1]

if Bumrah had debuted in 2023 and had a poor run of 4/5 games, Gambhir & Agarkar would have dropped him permanently citing his lack of batting contribution 

[putrevus]

Some guys like Pandya, or Deepak Chahar always seem to be injured during the season but magically get fit for IPL.

 

Pandya cannot last 4 overs, planning around this guy for for world cup 2027 is futile.

[Manucrick]

46 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Some guys like Pandya, or Deepak Chahar always seem to be injured during the season but magically get fit for IPL.

 

Pandya cannot last 4 overs, planning around this guy for for world cup 2027 is futile.

Pandya is gone case 

[maniac]

There is nothing wrong in asking highly paid professionals to take on more responsibilities.