Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[ind_hyd1]

Not having Bharath arun as the bowling is harming Indian cricket. Mhambhrey is bringing back the trundler culture. Both KL Rahul and rohit are mediocre captains. 

[singhvivek141]

22 minutes ago, ind_hyd1 said:

If Shivam mavi continues to bowl like this, better have avesh Khan in his place. He doing well this Ranji season. No point in having a 24 year old bowling at 128-134 speeds 

What Avesh Khan will bring in...he will make a loud labored grunt and bowl at 132 kph...on top of that he is another Chahal with the field and bat.
Mavi atleast is a better fielder.
I don't know why Kuldeep Sen was left out so soon.

Edited January 4, 2023 by singhvivek141

[sandeep]

can't believe a thread on cricket and bowling devolved to multiple pages of "I know kungfu karate and other dangerous words".

[Pollack]

This should be bowling lineup for WC2023:

 

Hardik

Umran

Bumrah

Siraj/Prasidh

Kuldeep

Jadeja 

 

[Vijy]

17 minutes ago, sandeep said:

can't believe a thread on cricket and bowling devolved to multiple pages of "I know kungfu karate and other dangerous words".

isn't that the fate of most threads on ICF, namely: who is better? Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan? [the only correct answer, of course, is the former]

[Vijy]

17 minutes ago, Pollack said:

This should be bowling lineup for WC2023:

 

Hardik

Umran

Bumrah

Siraj/Prasidh

Kuldeep

Jadeja 

 

our no. 8 needs to be able to bat somewhat - hopefully kuldeep can do it.

 

I like your lineup but sundar should be there in place of jadeja

[Need4Speed]

9 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Ajay Jadeja as Chief selector anybody

 

Such great points..the most important was..c***u TM needs to learn how to use such kind of bowler properly as they wud hv nvr seen the balls flying in those areas..

remember 1st boundary Mendis hit Umran just showing field placement wasnt ok..

whose fault is that..so TM etc needs to learn..

Also,Umran reverse swinging red ball at high speed in air..mouth watering..

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, ind_hyd1 said:

Was quite shocked with his speeds. After the Ranji trophy game against bengal remember ishan pirel who was the man of the match making special mention of Shivam mavi saying that he was genuinely quick and troubled all the batters

 

How long ago ?

[SRT100]

4 hours ago, Vijy said:

thompson was the one genuine quick of that time, more so than others. I dunno if he did bowl 160, but I can that he was fastest of that era

 

Thompson was genuinely fast and as fast if not the fastest for his time, but I dont believe he was 160+

 

It brings up an interesting argument I have with mates, how Bradman never faced genuine fast bowlers like of the modern era, say compared to Tendulkar who faced multiple generations of fast bowlers, across a number of countries in a variety of conditions. Even Gavaskar for that matter faced terrifying fast bowling of the WI in the WI.

[SRT100]

3 hours ago, sandeep said:

can't believe a thread on cricket and bowling devolved to multiple pages of "I know kungfu karate and other dangerous words".

Apologies for that I regrettably engaged with another poster that I was calling out, when I should have kept my personal opinions and thoughts to myself and adhered to the current subject on hand, I learnt a lesson here.

 

Apologies also to you @express bowling as I know this is "your thread" and you pride yourself in keeping the subject matter on point and here I am derailing a good, well thought of and knowledgeable thread. Sorry for my part.

[vishalvirsingh]

23 hours ago, tapandrun said:

 

Second you on this, a bowler who was clocking 140+ in age group is down to mid 130s is saddening to see.

 

I just hope he was down on pace because of debut match jitters, else he is not a longterm investments another Thakur, Mukesh kind of a bowler in the mix.

 

Though I never thought him as 145ish bowler, he is somewhere in 142 range, but today he was too slow, when IPL teams are trying to find a V.high pacer from open trails, its hard to digest that a bowler coming from BCCI system with all the facilities and motivation in his early 20s bowling sub 135 that too when they just need to bowl 4 overs.

 

His balls didn't even get the kind of seem Pandya was getting even at those low speeds.  Not sure if at his height he will be able to get any bounce and if you minus the pace that's just club level/weekend cricket level bowling 

 

 

 

 

only reason why He got wickets ( 4) was that batsman could not hit hardik and wanted to target him and attacked him carelessly. 

i see that batsman tried to target him but he was a bit smart and bowled accurately and so got lots of wickets.

[Chakdephatte]

5 hours ago, ind_hyd1 said:

Was quite shocked with his speeds. After the Ranji trophy game against be gal remember ishan pirel who was the man of the match making special mention of Shivam mavi saying that he was genuinely quick and troubled all the batters

 

He goes through motions. We have seen it in IPL.

[MCcricket]

Sadly for me Mavi is a phattu bowler, he will be a letdown as far as bowling with pace. He had the capacity but doesn't have the conviction or courage, in the long run he will lose out because of his mindset. We have better option then him, I might be wrong but that is what I see.

[Vijy]

9 hours ago, SRT100 said:

 

Thompson was genuinely fast and as fast if not the fastest for his time, but I dont believe he was 160+

 

It brings up an interesting argument I have with mates, how Bradman never faced genuine fast bowlers like of the modern era, say compared to Tendulkar who faced multiple generations of fast bowlers, across a number of countries in a variety of conditions. Even Gavaskar for that matter faced terrifying fast bowling of the WI in the WI.

although bradman was facing 120-125 kph bowlers at max, there are two big negatives: one was the uncovered pitches (some were mud sludges) and the other was lack of proper protective gear. without these two (pitch protection and batter protection), as anyone who has played cricket knows, even a 120 kph ball striking the body causes substantial bruising, pain, and even injuries.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Vijy

[ind_hyd1]

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

How long ago ?

This seasons 1st match

[Vijy]

12 hours ago, sandeep said:

can't believe a thread on cricket and bowling devolved to multiple pages of "I know kungfu karate and other dangerous words".

I know I already responded (i.e., the bruce lee vs jackie chan tongue-in-cheek post), but I wanted to share a bit more of a down-to-earth post

 

In a nutstell, I'm a bit too old and jaded than many of the usual posters. Hence, most (but not all) times I see such tangents arise, I find them amusing and droll as long as they don't cross unacceptable lines; for the most part, this one didn't IMO.

 

with that said, I do feel a bit sorry for @express bowling that the thread got diverted temporarily. however, all 3 of us veterans of ICF know that this 1400+ page thread has witnessed some diversions before.

 

this seems like a good occasion to congratulate @express bowling and all the regular posters (e.g., @Mosher @raki05 @Suhaan @rkt.india @Vilander ) on this wonderful thread. I am old enough to remember the hype around Pandurang Salgaonkar (who was low 130s perhaps on avg page), and getting to Umran (with 145+ avg pace) has been a great journey. this thread must keep going as long as ICF continues because fast bowling is the life blood of cricket; it's what gets the adrenaline going, gets the spectators pumped, gets the batters rattled, and raises the morale of the fielding team. fast bowling is the beating heart of cricket, which has often lain dormant, but every now and then blooms to give a rare flower.

 

some of the regular posters could, in all seriousness, moonlight as talent scouts and/or advisors. in science (my domain), quite a few major projects have involved either large collaborations or have relied on citizen science. it is interesting to speculate about how much more quickly fast bowling may develop in India if, say, a similar approach were to be employed, and the pace bowling talent sought out and harnessed to the fullest.

 

thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Vijy

[Vijy]

10 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

How long ago ?

I know that even in recent VHT or SMT, on the slower domestic guns, he was clocking mid and high 130s regularly. in other words, on int'l pace guns, he should be hovering around 140 on avg pace.

 

mavi's trundling in this match was a conscious and deliberate choice - his decision to become the trundler prince clearly motivated by the many life lessons he learnt from all the trundler kings before him

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Vijy said:

I know that even in recent VHT or SMT, on the slower domestic guns, he was clocking mid and high 130s regularly. in other words, on int'l pace guns, he should be hovering around 140 on avg pace.

 

 

 

 

One thing I have noticed is that the speed guns used in SMAT are usually correct. 

 

And they are worst in Ranji where Fast-medium pacers often clock around 75 kmph ( not mph ) bowling normal deliveries.  And the next ball may clock 130 kmph. 

 

 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Vijy said:

I know that even in recent VHT or SMT, on the slower domestic guns, he was clocking mid and high 130s regularly. in other words, on int'l pace guns, he should be hovering around 140 on avg pace.

 

mavi's trundling in this match was a conscious and deliberate choice - his decision to become the trundler prince clearly motivated by the many life lessons he learnt from all the trundler kings before him

 

I was watching Mavi in SMAT and he looked very similar to his debut T20I. No zip there either. 

 

He does not want to be quick but just wants to remain injury free.

[Pollack]

14 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

I was watching Mavi in SMAT and he looked very similar to his debut T20I. No zip there either. 

 

He does not want to be quick but just wants to remain injury free.

The question is how did he come into reckoning out of the blue? 

VHT and SMAT, according to stats, he was decent but not even close the best. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Pollack