The Five Bowler Theory

[Texan]

If we play Bhuv as the seamer and Mishra as the spinner, we can still afford to play 5 bowlers as Jadeja (in India on slow tracks), Ashwin, Bhuv and Mishra can all contribute some runs. Yadav/Shami could be the last pick depending on who is in better reverse swing form.

[Tibarn]

Most of this match it didn't even look like we needed a fourth bowler. In the first innings it was the spinners + Umesh and the 2nd innings it was the spinners + Shami. I'm not saying we need to drop a bowler, just that 5 would be overkill, as spinners can bowl much longer spells. I think, even if we weren't doing project Rohit, an extra batsman would be better. Of course, a batting allrounder would be good as well, if we really need someone to bowl a handful of overs.

 

[express bowling]

Don't see the need for 5 bowlers on these rank turners....where innings don't last long these days.

[Lord]

8 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Not really, we only played 5 bowlers against at Mohali against SA. We played 4 bowlers in Delhi and Nagpur. Even against Aus, we would have won those matches by playing just 4 bowlers because one of the 5 bowlers will always be under-bowled. Also, apart from Delhi test, none of those pitches against Aus were rank turners and we did see some big scores. On low scoring pitches, you dont need extra bowler where you are barely bowling 90 overs per innings.

The point is which offers you more,extra batsmen or bowler?5th bowler has given us crucial breakthroughs,its not just about no. of overs.Jadeja was the designated 5th bowler in Aus series.If he didnt play,there was no way we could win given how Ojha bowled.

 

We are depending too much on Ashwin now,if he fails,even on turners we can lose with 4 bowlers like we saw in Mumbai 2012

 

OTOH I can't remember when an extra batsman proved handy.Even if we replace Rohit by say Dhawan,he's not likely to make any contribution on these pitches.

[Texan]

We cannot and should not expect Ashwin to take 10 wickets in every match. Even in the last Test, there were times when the spinners appeared to be running out of ideas. I think if we have 5 bowlers, 4 of which can bat in the conditions - Ashwin, Jadeja, Mishra and Bhuv, then we can still play 5 bowlers without putting too much pressure on the batsmen. 

[ShebbySB]

On 9/26/2016 at 1:59 PM, gakgupta said:

It was working wonderful for india. Why change now?? 

 

We might loose one odd test match but it's gives a chance to win more matches rather than lame draws. I know, we haven't lost this match and neither it was a draw but there were situations in the this match, it could have went either way.

 

Jadeja can be treated as a complete all- rounder in Indian conditions. He can certainly bat better than ROHIT.

 

Ashwin & Saha are no mug with the bats either.

 

I know MISHRA is not in good form but still adds some value....Ideally, KULDEEP would have done better job then MISHRA, but mishra is not really bad in these conditions....(He can bat as well) 

 

Kuldeep bats pretty well too....

[New guy]

Considers that Bhuvi actually bats better than Rohit, why not?

[cowboysfan]

Yadav doesnt provide enough for his place to be justified imo,just go with the Fatso Leggie .when the 2 spinners are tired i would rather bring in the leg spinner than Yadav who will just leak runs and take away all the pressure that ha been built up.

[philcric]

6 hours ago, New guy said:

Considers that Bhuvi actually bats better than Rohit, why not?

 

But Rohit helps other batsmen to score runs by his magnanimous presence and running between the wickets. Bhuvi doesn't.

 

Ash also gets tips from Rohit the world class off-spinner who doesn't really bowl for whatever reason.

 

[rkt.india]

15 hours ago, Lord said:

The point is which offers you more,extra batsmen or bowler?5th bowler has given us crucial breakthroughs,its not just about no. of overs.Jadeja was the designated 5th bowler in Aus series.If he didnt play,there was no way we could win given how Ojha bowled.

 

We are depending too much on Ashwin now,if he fails,even on turners we can lose with 4 bowlers like we saw in Mumbai 2012

 

OTOH I can't remember when an extra batsman proved handy.Even if we replace Rohit by say Dhawan,he's not likely to make any contribution on these pitches.

it depends on the conditions. On a bowler friendly pitch, you do not need 5 bowlers.

7 hours ago, New guy said:

Considers that Bhuvi actually bats better than Rohit, why not?

A contribution here and there doesn't make him a batsman.

[Texan]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

it depends on the conditions. On a bowler friendly pitch, you do not need 5 bowlers.

A contribution here and there doesn't make him a batsman.

Rohit Sharma's average in Test cricket is same as Ashwin's. Ashwin is also our leading run getter this year and has already got two hundreds this year. Jadeja struck batting form in last Test too. Bhuv has a pretty stodgy defence and Mishra got a 50 in the last Duleep Trophy game and has 4 Test 50s. That is 4 bowlers who can be handy batsmen in home comditions. Plus when both spinners get tired or run out of ideas, you have another spinner to go to and don't have to get part time overs from Vijay or have to rely on pacers to get few overs in. Pacers are also of variety - Bhuv useful with new ball and to exploit any sideways movement whenever available. Shami/Yadav useful with reverse swing.

 

I think all those benefits added together trump over having Rohit Sharma at 6. 

[Laaloo]

7 hours ago, cowboysfan said:

Yadav doesnt provide enough for his place to be justified imo,just go with the Fatso Leggie .when the 2 spinners are tired i would rather bring in the leg spinner than Yadav who will just leak runs and take away all the pressure that ha been built up.

Mishra Oh god no. He's useless. If you're going to replace one of the pacers, do it with someone better than Mishra.

[Texan]

5 minutes ago, laaloo said:

Mishra Oh god no. He's useless. If you're going to replace one of the pacers, do it with someone better than Mishra.

Since his comeback last year, Mishra's bowling average is 20 in Test cricket. 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/31107.html?class=1;spanmin1=01+Jan+2015;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

[rkt.india]

8 hours ago, cowboysfan said:

Yadav doesnt provide enough for his place to be justified imo,just go with the Fatso Leggie .when the 2 spinners are tired i would rather bring in the leg spinner than Yadav who will just leak runs and take away all the pressure that ha been built up.

When did Yadav leak runs in this test? Two pacers are must. When spinners did not work, it was pacers who have been giving us breakthroughs.

[Ankit_sharma03]

8 hours ago, cowboysfan said:

Yadav doesnt provide enough for his place to be justified imo,just go with the Fatso Leggie .when the 2 spinners are tired i would rather bring in the leg spinner than Yadav who will just leak runs and take away all the pressure that ha been built up.

Amit mishra gave 171 runs in 41 overs at 4.71 eco in duleep trophy, isnt that leaking runs. 

There are two spinners there already , how many spinner do u want. How come spinners get tired, they can easily bowl 30 overs a day .

 

TWO PACER IN INDIAN CONDITION WITH A SKILL OF REVERSE SWING IS ESSENTIAL, BECOZ THEIR WOULD BE PHASES WHERE SPINNER COULD BE INEFFECTIVE AND THAT WERE REVERSE COMES IN PLAY. LETS NOT FORGET DELHI TEST OR AHEMDABAD TEST IND-ENG WHERE UMESH SPELL CHANGED THE MATCHES. 

[Sandeep99]

With Gambhir in the side, India can actually afford it. With Jadeja slowly getting better, looks like a very sound strategy now...

[ShebbySB]

Don't know why some of the members here have an assumption about Yadav being expensive which can be proven

wrong statistically.He's not plus he takes wickets with the old ball in sc conditions.A good athlete..not a liability like

Mishra in the field.I'd definitely play him over anyone in India followed by Shami.

[Ankit_sharma03]

18 minutes ago, ShebbySB said:

Don't know why some of the members here have an assumption about Yadav being expensive which can be proven

wrong statistically.He's not plus he takes wickets with the old ball in sc conditions.A good athlete..not a liability like

Mishra in the field.I'd definitely play him over anyone in India followed by Shami.

Good point, misha is a liability in field. 

Mishra dropped a crucial catch in WI, Yadav run out of ross taylor was spectacular and such things add up to it.

 

Here is another Stat who just have to label thing without knowing stats, labelling thing without studying can be done by any idiot. 

 

In india,

Umesh has bowled 194 overs in which he has 24 wkts, with an avg of 25.21. S/r of 48.3

Amit mishra has bowled 420 overs in which he has 32 wkts at an avg of 37.66 S/r of 78.75 (too bad on spin freindly wkts)

 

Now say who is more effective, A pacer who bowls at around 145-150k with reverse swing with additional fielding skill or a leg spinner who has been ineffective even on rank turners plus a bad fielder. 

 

Umesh vs Amit mishra discussion should be put to death from now on. Go n check their stats and effectiveness and if many are trying to ignore it then think about the balance of the side to

Edited September 28, 2016 by Ankit_sharma03

[express bowling]

Amit Mishra averages 20 in test matches in the last 3 years and has a SR of  41.

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/31107.html?class=1;spanmax1=28+Sep+2016;spanmin1=28+Sep+2013;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

[gakgupta]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

Amit Mishra averages 20 in test matches in the last 3 years and has a SR of  41.

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/31107.html?class=1;spanmax1=28+Sep+2016;spanmin1=28+Sep+2013;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

I have followed duleep trphy keenly and for me Kuldeep looked many times better than AMIT....

Amit looked like a mere club cricketer....May be it could be lack of interest or lack of form....

I am big fan of wrist spin bowling and sadly, Misshy bhai is loosing his form and even sandakan seemed to have better control and variations than our mishhy bhai