Bhuvneshwar Kumar is Overrated in ODIs?

[raki05]

44 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

A BK fan would say Bumrah is the one who failed in the CT and Bhuvi did his job overall, and they both went for ~8 an over in the death(last 5 overs)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8037/scorecard/1022375/india-vs-pakistan-final-icc-champions-trophy-2017

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8037/commentary/1022375/india-vs-pakistan-final-icc-champions-trophy-2017?innings=1

BOWLING	O	M	R	W	ECON	0s	4s	6s	WD	NB
B Kumar	10	2	44	1	4.40	34	2	2	1	0
JJ Bumrah	9	0	68	0	7.55	22	8	0	5	3
R Ashwin	10	0	70	0	7.00	25	4	3	4	0
HH Pandya	10	0	53	1	5.30	28	5	0	1	0
RA Jadeja	8	0	67	0	8.37	16	8	2	0	0
KM Jadhav	3	0	27	1	9.00	3	0	2	2	0

 

 

The truth is, at least in my opinion, we lost the CT because we were carrying Jadeja/Ashwin in the team, both of who were truly terrible in ODIs for the past few years. Also Kohli managed the bowlers poorly where Bumrah ended up with a over remaining and Jadhav was overbowled and gave up 16 runs in the 45th.  

 

 

At least bumrah got FZ out on no ball , what did bhuvi do, as an new ball bowler there is an expectation to get early breakthrough which he dint . Also his figure looks good at hindsight reality is he has given most of his run where he claimed to be best. Bumrah and wrist spinners especially Kuldeep not chota chetan are the reason we are competing well in bowling. Bhuvi and Chahal are dud in odi and until bhuvi played as an all-rounder he doesn't deserve his place as an fast bowler.

[Rasgulla]

Beetle works for Bhuvi and Pant PR.. I don't want to say much

[Tibarn]

42 minutes ago, raki05 said:

At least bumrah got FZ out on no ball , what did bhuvi do, as an new ball bowler there is an expectation to get early breakthrough which he dint . Also his figure looks good at hindsight reality is he has given most of his run where he claimed to be best. Bumrah and wrist spinners especially Kuldeep not chota chetan are the reason we are competing well in bowling. Bhuvi and Chahal are dud in odi and until bhuvi played as an all-rounder he doesn't deserve his place as an fast bowler.

Everyone knows Bumrah is the best ODI bowler, but he failed in the CT final. BK did what was expected of him that game. 1 wicket and 44 runs. No one in team management expects him to take 2-3 wickets. They select him for his death bowling. Going for 8 rpo in the death isn't bad. 

 

Should he be replaced? Sure, why not? I'm always in favor of looking for better players. However, I don't think he will be replaced until after the WC.

Quote

Chahal are dud in odi and until bhuvi played as an all-rounder he doesn't deserve his place as an fast bowler.

This I don't agree with:

 

 Last 3 years, minimum 20 innings bowled, matches vs top 9 teams(including Bangladesh)

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	Ave	Econ	SR	4	5
Kuldeep Yadav (INDIA)	2017-2018	23	21	192.4	6	929	48	6/25	19.35	4.82	24.0	2	1
YS Chahal (INDIA)	2017-2018	23	22	203.1	7	997	39	5/22	25.56	4.90	31.2	1	1
Imran Tahir (SA)	2015-2018	41	40	354.0	11	1780	62	7/45	28.70	5.02	34.2	1	1
AU Rashid (ENG)	2015-2018	54	52	478.4	5	2563	87	4/41	29.45	5.35	33.0	4	0
KM Jadhav (INDIA)	2016-2018	33	21	98.5	0	512	16	3/29	32.00	5.18	37.0	0	0
A Zampa (AUS)	2016-2018	30	30	246.4	2	1422	39	3/16	36.46	5.76	37.9	0	0
MJ Santner (NZ)	2015-2018	46	43	361.1	6	1694	46	3/15	36.82	4.69	47.1	0	0
AR Nurse (WI)	2016-2018	24	23	192.5	3	1016	24	4/62	42.33	5.26	48.2	1	0
AG Cremer (ZIM)	2015-2018	23	22	176.5	3	870	20	4/32	43.50	4.91	53.0	1	0
MM Ali (ENG)	2015-2018	54	52	431.4	7	2233	47	4/46	47.51	5.17	55.1	1	0
Imad Wasim (PAK)	2016-2017	24	24	169.4	3	773	16	2/13	48.31	4.55	63.6	0	0
Sikandar Raza (ZIM)	2015-2018	23	20	137.2	5	718	13	3/21	55.23	5.22	63.3	0	0
Shakib Al Hasan (BDESH)	2016-2018	24	23	194.0	3	1089	18	3/47	60.50	5.61	64.6	0	0
TM Head (AUS)	2016-2018	38	26	127.3	0	737	12	2/22	61.41	5.78	63.7	0	0
Shoaib Malik (PAK)	2015-2018	33	21	101.0	2	582	7	2/45	83.14	5.76	86.5	0	0
JP Duminy (SA)	2015-2018	45	33	132.1	0	824	9	2/30	91.55	6.23	88.1	0	0
JE Root (ENG)	2015-2018	54	21	70.4	0	436	3	2/31	145.33	6.16	141.3	0	0

 

Kuldeep is by far the best ODI spinner, but Chahal is right there for #2.

 

[express bowling]

We should be ready to take tough decisions irrespective of names, if they are not showing consistency for 2 or 3 years.

 

I liked Umesh a lot ... but want him dropped now since he has not shown consistency over a period of time.

 

If Shami is unable to take sufficient number of wickets and clinch the important moments in Australia then he should be phased out of test matches too.

 

Similarly, Bhuvi needs to be phased out of ODIs.

 

Now that we are maturing as a bowling nation ... we need to pick only low average bowlers who are capable of clinching the key moments in matches.

[LORD_analyst]

41 minutes ago, express bowling said:

We should be ready to take tough decisions irrespective of names, if they are not showing consistency for 2 or 3 years.

 

I liked Umesh a lot ... but want him dropped now since he has not shown consistency over a period of time.

 

If Shami is unable to take sufficient number of wickets and clinch the important moments in Australia then he should be phased out of test matches too.

 

Similarly, Bhuvi needs to be phased out of ODIs.

 

Now that we are maturing as a bowling nation ... we need to pick only low average bowlers who are capable of clinching the key moments in matches.

i have said for about an year-   Boobi is not an ODI bowler.....only overseas tests and t-20s suit him...

[LORD_analyst]

1 hour ago, raki05 said:

At least bumrah got FZ out on no ball , what did bhuvi do, as an new ball bowler there is an expectation to get early breakthrough which he dint

bumrah beat edge of fz about five times(one of them was no-ball)...boobie was pedestrian with the new ball.     

[Moochad]

5 hours ago, Tibarn said:

Everyone knows Bumrah is the best ODI bowler, but he failed in the CT final. BK did what was expected of him that game. 1 wicket and 44 runs. No one in team management expects him to take 2-3 wickets. They select him for his death bowling. Going for 8 rpo in the death isn't bad. 

 

Should he be replaced? Sure, why not? I'm always in favor of looking for better players. However, I don't think he will be replaced until after the WC.

This I don't agree with:

 

 Last 3 years, minimum 20 innings bowled, matches vs top 9 teams(including Bangladesh)

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	Ave	Econ	SR	4	5
Kuldeep Yadav (INDIA)	2017-2018	23	21	192.4	6	929	48	6/25	19.35	4.82	24.0	2	1
YS Chahal (INDIA)	2017-2018	23	22	203.1	7	997	39	5/22	25.56	4.90	31.2	1	1
Imran Tahir (SA)	2015-2018	41	40	354.0	11	1780	62	7/45	28.70	5.02	34.2	1	1
AU Rashid (ENG)	2015-2018	54	52	478.4	5	2563	87	4/41	29.45	5.35	33.0	4	0
KM Jadhav (INDIA)	2016-2018	33	21	98.5	0	512	16	3/29	32.00	5.18	37.0	0	0
A Zampa (AUS)	2016-2018	30	30	246.4	2	1422	39	3/16	36.46	5.76	37.9	0	0
MJ Santner (NZ)	2015-2018	46	43	361.1	6	1694	46	3/15	36.82	4.69	47.1	0	0
AR Nurse (WI)	2016-2018	24	23	192.5	3	1016	24	4/62	42.33	5.26	48.2	1	0
AG Cremer (ZIM)	2015-2018	23	22	176.5	3	870	20	4/32	43.50	4.91	53.0	1	0
MM Ali (ENG)	2015-2018	54	52	431.4	7	2233	47	4/46	47.51	5.17	55.1	1	0
Imad Wasim (PAK)	2016-2017	24	24	169.4	3	773	16	2/13	48.31	4.55	63.6	0	0
Sikandar Raza (ZIM)	2015-2018	23	20	137.2	5	718	13	3/21	55.23	5.22	63.3	0	0
Shakib Al Hasan (BDESH)	2016-2018	24	23	194.0	3	1089	18	3/47	60.50	5.61	64.6	0	0
TM Head (AUS)	2016-2018	38	26	127.3	0	737	12	2/22	61.41	5.78	63.7	0	0
Shoaib Malik (PAK)	2015-2018	33	21	101.0	2	582	7	2/45	83.14	5.76	86.5	0	0
JP Duminy (SA)	2015-2018	45	33	132.1	0	824	9	2/30	91.55	6.23	88.1	0	0
JE Root (ENG)	2015-2018	54	21	70.4	0	436	3	2/31	145.33	6.16	141.3	0	0

 

Kuldeep is by far the best ODI spinner, but Chahal is right there for #2.

 

We have 3 of the top 5 spinners over the last 3 years and 1 of them is a part timer 

 

Kuldeep is by far the best and Chahal is underrated!

[Forever Indian]

Bhuvi has been average in ODIs agreed, but in last two World tourneys in England - CT 13 and CT 17 he was our best bowler. Our overall best bowler Bumrah went missing in CT 17 and averaged over 50. Bhuvi averaged 28 in CT 17 and 22 in CT 13. Our bowling was poor in CT 17 bcos our 2nd and 3rd Pacers Bumrah and Hardik averaged over 50 and picked only 4 wickets each in 5 matches.

 

If the WC was happening anywhere other than England I would have said to drop Bhuvi, but as it is in England Bhuvi is a must. What India requires is a proper third seamer not Hardik.

 

This is from CT 17:

India bowling averages

Player	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	Ave	Econ	SR	4	5	Ct	St
B Kumar	5	5	42.3	4	197	7	2/23	28.14	4.63	36.4	0	0	2	0
JJ Bumrah	5	5	42.0	1	210	4	2/28	52.50	5.00	63.0	0	0	1	0
KM Jadhav	5	3	12.0	0	67	3	2/22	22.33	5.58	24.0	0	0	3	0
UT Yadav	2	2	17.2	1	97	3	3/30	32.33	5.59	34.6	0	0	0	0
V Kohli	5	1	3.0	0	17	0	-	-	5.66	-	0	0	2	0
R Ashwin	3	3	29.0	0	167	1	1/43	167.00	5.75	174.0	0	0	0	0
RA Jadeja	5	5	42.0	0	249	4	2/43	62.25	5.92	63.0	0	0	4	0
HH Pandya	5	5	39.0	1	233	4	2/43	58.25	5.97	58.5	0	0	1	0

[beetle]

I feel bhuvi, shami , Umesh should also be made one format bowlers like Ishant .

 

Bumrah should  also be limited to 2 formats.

 

This will keep them fit and fresh for the format they are suited for.

 

Let odis be the blooding ground for young upcoming bowlers along with 1-2 experienced ones.

 

The bowlers who perform well in 2 seasons of ipl should be tried in t 20s .

 

Only long term performers in ranji ( atleast 2 good seasons) should be candidates for test debut ....if possible , after playing a few odis.

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2018 by beetle

[express bowling]

16 hours ago, beetle said:

I feel bhuvi, shami , Umesh should also be made one format bowlers like Ishant .

 

Bumrah should  also be limited to 2 formats.

 

This will keep them fit and fresh for the format they are suited for.

 

Let odis be the blooding ground for young upcoming bowlers along with 1-2 experienced ones.

 

The bowlers who perform well in 2 seasons of ipl should be tried in t 20s .

 

Only long term performers in ranji ( atleast 2 good seasons) should be candidates for test debut ....if possible , after playing a few odis.

 

 

 

 

Agree with most points.

 

Best format for trying young pacers is ODIs and not T20Is.

 

2 good seasons is a good parameter for newbies.

 

Shami is playing tests only.   Umesh should be retricted to this format too.

 

 

Bumrah should play only tests and ODIs ... but should play World T20s too, once in 4 years.

 

Similarly, Bhuvi should play T20Is ... but also tests in swing friendly conditions.

Edited September 15, 2018 by express bowling

[Nikola]

16 hours ago, beetle said:

I feel bhuvi, shami , Umesh should also be made one format bowlers like Ishant .

 

Bumrah should  also be limited to 2 formats.

 

This will keep them fit and fresh for the format they are suited for.

 

Let odis be the blooding ground for young upcoming bowlers along with 1-2 experienced ones.

 

The bowlers who perform well in 2 seasons of ipl should be tried in t 20s .

 

Only long term performers in ranji ( atleast 2 good seasons) should be candidates for test debut ....if possible , after playing a few odis.

 

 

 

He should make himself all rounder in test cricket. This will solve many problems for our side in overseas too. He should have done it bit early (at start of africa tour atleast). He can score 30 - 40 or 50 runs but need to score 100 and try to score quick when wickets fall. He can't make place in side just as bowler in all conditions. In t20s and ipl he will obviously keep playing without doubt and that doesn't matter much. At age of 28 and when we have next overseas tour 4 years later when he will be 32-33 the time will run quick for him. He should try to be a reliable #6/7 and he can play for another 5 - 6 years.

[Nikola]

This damn vvs laxman always makes bhuvi look like he is glenn mcgrath. SRH lobby.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Nikola

[Nikola]

Okay i am not here being anti-bhuvi. As a person i really like him but i fear that he won't be wicket taker when we need wickets from him. Yes he can still improve till worldcup but looking at his bowling today idk if he is gonna have impact in worldcup. We don't even have good backup bowler. Will have to look at Shami or Umesh for worldcup soon.

[Ankit_sharma03]

Good We have Prasidh, avesh their ...incase bhuvi is injured

But in that case also we will go for Kaul

[SUMO]

Siraj and khaleel could develop into something special

[Lannister]

His days of playing ODIs are done. He is way past it and I don't see him troubling batsmen with his current pace. 

[rkt.india]

Saini's debut has been unnecessarily delayed.

[Nikola]

This performance from bhuvi gonna make sure he plays worldcup which might be bad news for fans.

[Moochad]

On 9/18/2018 at 6:52 AM, Nikola said:

This damn vvs laxman always makes bhuvi look like he is glenn mcgrath. SRH lobby.

He just said BK is a wicket-taking bowler both with new ball and death 

[Nikola]

12 minutes ago, Moochad said:

He just said BK is a wicket-taking bowler both with new ball and death 

watching vvs praise him like he is legend from last 2 - 3 years. Sehwag once said praising cause of srh teammate.