Srinath vs Bumrah

[Ranvir]

Who do you think is better Srinath at his peak or Bumrah? I know Bumrah still has a long way to go in his career and is higher in the rankings than Srinath ever was but to be fair there were a lot of great bowlers in Srinath's time.

 

Being a 90s child I've always had a soft spot for Javagal Srinath he was India's only good fast bowler in those days and was a genuine quick, as quick as Donald and Younis, I always felt that he didn't get enough recognition. He never had a stable partner to bowl at the other end. What do you guys think? Was he underrated, overrated or fairly rated? 

[bowl_out]

Srinath was good but Bumrah is a different league. We've never had someone as fast and accurate as him. Never.

 

Plus his bowling looks effortless because of his hyper extension which keeps him mostly injury free

[First class]

Srinath was a conventional bowler, a very good one and once a batsman is set it was not difficult to bat against him. Bumrah, is anything but conventional, has so much variety in his bowling, that too at good pace, every ball is a potential wicket taking ball.

[Ranvir]

35 minutes ago, First class said:

Srinath was a conventional bowler, a very good one and once a batsman is set it was not difficult to bat against him. Bumrah, is anything but conventional, has so much variety in his bowling, that too at good pace, every ball is a potential wicket taking ball.

I agree. I remember a lot of batsmen in the 90s had their personal best scores against India.

 

It took forever to get Jayasuriya out in that test match.

[Gollum]

Let us wait till Bumrah plays a few tests in India, he has played all his tests in RSA, Eng, Aus and they had perfect conditions for quicks. Srinath was a matchwinner in India, can't give the verdict now even though I have no doubt we are yet to see the best of JB. In ODIs Bumrah will probably partner Kapil in our AT XI, so in that format he has a clear edge.

 

I will always respect Srinath because he kept the flame of fast bowling alive in India when we were going through a rough phase, that he played most of his matches for such a weak Indian side led by nincompoops/fixers, often with Dodda, Kuruvilla, Johnson, Harvinder type mega-trundlers should be factored in.

 

Now we have a fast bowling culture, Bumrah is lucky to play under a leader who backs the pacemen to the hilt, and we have our greatest ever bowling unit (pace and spin, home and away) to ease the burden of his shoulders. Hope he becomes our first ever fast bowling ATG and we compare him with Roberts, Hadlee, Steyn etc a a few years from now. 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Gollum

[maniac]

i don’t think it is a good comparison because they are different type of bowlers. I classify Indian bowlers in 5 categories and this has nothing do with how fast they are or if they are right armers or left armers

 

Category 1- Bumrah,Zak and Kapil Dev

 

These were bowlers who would keep coming at batsman with the same intensity. Set up batsman beautifully. If batsman lose their concentration they would be done and dusted. Excellent temperament and skills. Obviously most of us missed Kapil’s peak and few us only saw him at the end.  Zak only talking about his 2nd innings.

 

Lesser mention- Irfan Pathan and Bhuvaneshwar Kumar

 

Category 2- Srinath,Shami,Umesh and Ishant

 

These are mercurial bowlers who when on song can  run through line ups and pick a bunch of wickets in no time. When they lose the plot they lose the plot. 

 

Even though Srinath towards the end of his career became a category 1 bowler and Ishant is becoming one recently as well.

 

Lesser mention- Sreeshanth and RP Singh

 

Category 3- Prasad, Praveen Kumar and  Manoj Prabhakar

 

Bowlers who maximized their skill sets despite a lot of limitations with clever variations and in an era when  there was hardly an pool of fast bowlers they were decent supporting acts.

 

Lesser mention- Karsan Ghavri

 

Category 4- Agarkar and Ashish Nehra 

 

bowlers who had  skills, pace and the backing but a mystery why they didn’t succeed as test bowers despite getting ample opportunities. Very good LOI bowlers though.

 

Lesser mention- Varun Aaron

 

Special mention- Munaf Patel even though in his case it is not a mystery. Lost pace and focused on LOIs and became a odi specialist. Was tempted to put him category 3 but had pace initially so putting him here.

 

Category 5- pure thrash

 

David Johnson,Dodda Ganesh,Kuruvilla etc etc you get the idea.

 

 

 

[Vijy]

On 7/4/2019 at 6:28 PM, Ranvir said:

Who do you think is better Srinath at his peak or Bumrah? I know Bumrah still has a long way to go in his career and is higher in the rankings than Srinath ever was but to be fair there were a lot of great bowlers in Srinath's time.

 

Being a 90s child I've always had a soft spot for Javagal Srinath he was India's only good fast bowler in those days and was a genuine quick, as quick as Donald and Younis, I always felt that he didn't get enough recognition. He never had a stable partner to bowl at the other end. What do you guys think? Was he underrated, overrated or fairly rated? 

srinath had lots of dropped catches (even more so than our current slip cordon), didn't play as many tests abroad (he was excellent in SA), lacked proper pace bowling support unlike boom-rah, etc. with all that said, he was temperamentally very fragile, tended to bowl short & wide too often, and failed to maximize his ability. currently, I think bumrah looks much better but these are early days. let's not forget that ishant, munna, RP, sreesanth, irfan, nehra, etc all looked promising early on (although not as much as bumrah) before falling off.

[Frustrated]

Srinath was a decent bowler.  But never ranked among the top 10 bowlers in the world.

Bumrah is a match winning 'Bowling Machine'.  Ranked 1 in ODIs for more than a year till date .  Different league altogether. 

 

No comparison.

 

[Vijy]

6 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

Srinath was a decent bowler.  But never ranked among the top 10 bowlers in the world.

Bumrah is a match winning 'Bowling Machine'.  Ranked 1 in ODIs for more than a year till date .  Different league altogether. 

 

No comparison.

 

srinath was ranked as high as number 8 in the world as per ICC rankings, for what it's worth. but obviously bumrah has done far better in ODIs; and also in tests given the small sample size.

[srh08]

Srinath was more consistent than other Indian pacers (say Agarkar/ZK) who had talent. He also became a better bowler as his career progressed (very good in 2003 WC until the final). Here is an example from 2000 vs Aus: 

Watch from 5:10 to 8:00 min mark. Srinath and Prasad bowled the first 20 overs if I remember right. Srinath was unplayable in the first few (highlights do not show that, only the wickets). 

Bumrah had a great 2 years or so, better than any Indian bowler at the beginning of their career. Remains to be seen how they compare in 10 years.

[Vijy]

3 minutes ago, srh08 said:

Srinath was more consistent than other Indian pacers (say Agarkar/ZK) who had talent. He also became a better bowler as his career progressed (very good in 2003 WC until the final). Here is an example from 2000 vs Aus: 

Watch from 5:10 to 8:00 min mark. Srinath and Prasad bowled the first 20 overs if I remember right. Srinath was unplayable in the first few (highlights do not show that, only the wickets). 

Bumrah had a great 2 years or so, better than any Indian bowler at the beginning of their career. Remains to be seen how they compare in 10 years.

the best memories I have of sri are the devastating spell against SA in ahmedabad (albeit on a bowler-friendly pitch) and the 13-wkt haul against pak.

[express bowling]

Bowling style ....

 

Bumrah ... Hit the deck genuine fast bowler 

 

Srinath ... Hit the deck genuine fast bowler

 

 

Bowling averages ....

 

Bumrah 

Tests ...  21.9

ODIs ...   22

T20Is ... 20

 

Srinath 

Tests ...  30  (  no good pace bowling partner )

ODIs ...   28

 

 

Wickets per match ....

 

Bumrah 

Tests.   4.9

ODIs.    1.8

 

Srinath

Tests.   3.5

ODIs.    1.4

 

 

 

Bowling strike rates in tests ....

 

Bumrah  ...  49

Srinath  ...   64

 

 

Economy rates in ODIs  .... 

 

Bumrah ... 4.5  ( in this era of 350+ scores )

Srinath. ...  4.45. 

 

 

Pace ....

 

Bumrah  135 k to 150 k .... Fastest  153.3 kph

 

Srinath. 135 k to 150 k ... Fastest 157 kph

 

 

Bounce and Height ....

 

Bumrah  ...  Gets steep bounce.  Height around 6'0".

 

Srinath  ...  Got even steeper bounce.  Height around 6'3".

 

 

Hostility  .... 

 

Bumrah  ...  Is a hostile fast bowler who can bowl nasty bouncers and rising short balls.  Regularly hits many batters on the body and head.

 

Srinath ... Was a hostile fast bowler who bowled lots of nasty bouncers and rising short balls. Hit many batters on the head and body.  Meryck Pringle and Lanka Silva's careers effectively ended after being hit on the face by Srinath snorters.  His rather timid body language often masked how hostile his bowling actually was.

 

 

Movement ....

 

Bumrah  ...  He is more of a seam bowler than a swing bowler.  But can swing the ball in favourable conditions. His stock delivery is the indipper which angles in.  Has developed the away going ball rather early in his test career. Can reverse the ball.

 

 

Srinath  ....  He was more of a seam bowler than a swing bowler. But became a good swing bowler in the last 4 years of his career. His stock delivery was the indipper.  And he developed the outswinger about mid-way into his career. Could reverse the ball and was great on Indian pitches.

 

 

Accuracy  ....

 

Bumrah  ...  Is a super accurate bowler despite being very quick.

 

Srinath  ... Was an accurate bowler.

 

 

Skills  ....

 

Bumrah  ...  Quick wicket taking yorkers,  quick bouncers,  sharp indippers,  away going variation, slower balls, reverse swing.

 

Srinath  ...  Sharp indippers,  outswingers later in his career, quick bouncers, reverse swing.

 

 

Support ....

 

Bumrah ... Has good support from both pacers and spinners in both tests and ODIs.

 

Srinath ... Did not have adequate support from pacers at the other end.  Had good spinners in test matches in India.

 

 

Overall ....

 

Bumrah  ... Is a wonderful bowler. He has the aura of a potential ATG about him and opposition batters and teams fear him. He is special. We have never had such a high quality fast bowler like him before.

 

Srinath  ...  Was the pioneer of genuine fast bowling for multiple years among Indians. He made the next generation of Indian fast bowlers believe that Indian bodies can bowl fast for a long time despite negative propaganda against it both home and away. And therein lies his special value.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by express bowling

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Bowling style ....

 

Bumrah ... Hit the deck genuine fast bowler 

 

Srinath ... Hit the deck genuine fast bowler

 

 

Bowling averages ....

 

Bumrah 

Tests ...  21.9

ODIs ...   22

T20Is ... 20

 

Srinath 

Tests ...  30

ODIs ...   28

 

 

Economy rates in ODIs  .... 

 

Bumrah ... 4.5  ( in this era of 350+ scores )

Srinath. ...  4.45. 

 

 

Pace ....

 

Bumrah  135 k to 150 k .... Fastest  153.3 kph

 

Srinath. 135 k to 150 k ... Fastest 157 kph

 

 

Bounce and Height ....

 

Bumrah  ...  Gets steep bounce.  Height around 6'0".

 

Srinath  ...  Got even steeper bounce.  Height around 6'3".

 

 

Hostility  .... 

 

Bumrah  ...  Is a hostile fast bowler who can bowl nasty bouncers and rising short balls.  Regularly hits many batters on the body and head.

  

Srinath ... Was a hostile fast bowler who bowled lots of nasty bouncers and rising short balls. Hit many batters on the head and body.  Meryck Pringle and Lanka Silva's careers effectively ended after being hit on the face by Srinath snorters.  His rather timid body language often masked how hostile his bowling actually was. 

 

 

Movement ....

 

Bumrah  ...  He is more of a seam bowler than a swing bowler.  But can swing the ball in favourable conditions. His stock delivery is the indipper which angles in.  Has developed the away going ball rather early in his test career. Can reverse the ball.

 

 

Srinath  ....  He was more of a seam bowler than a swing bowler. But became a good swing bowler in the last 4 years of his career. His stock delivery was the indipper.  And he developed the outswinger about mid-way into his career. Could reverse the ball and was great on Indian pitches.

 

 

Accuracy  ....

 

Bumrah  ...  Is a super accurate bowler despite being very quick.

 

Srinath  ... Was an accurate bowler.

 

 

Support ....

 

Bumrah ... Has good support from both pacers and spinners in both tests and ODIs.

 

Srinath ... Did not have adequate support from pacers at the other end.  Had good spinners in test matches in India.

 

 

Overall ....

 

Bumrah  ... Is a wonderful bowler. He has the aura of a potential ATG about him and opposition batters and teams fear him. He is special. We have never had such a high quality fast bowler like him before.

 

Srinath  ...  Was the pioneer of genuine fast bowling for multiple years among Indians. He made the next generation of Indian fast bowlers believe that Indian bodies can bowl fast for a long time despite negative propaganda against it both home and away. And therein lies his special value.

 

 

great post. Agree with all the points you made.

[express bowling]

Bumrah gets 100 ODI wickets in only his 57th ODI.  Has 101 wickets so far.

[cricketfan28]

Bumrah.

[Rightarmfast]

I avoided this thread earlier, because in my thoughts, the comparison cannot be made with the stats and performances. In a nutshell, I would say Bumrah exists today, because of the Srinath of the 90's! Srinath was the pioneer ( almost, if we disregard Amar Singh and Nissar of the 40's ) of genuine fast bowling in India. 

 

Without going into the nitty gritties of stats ( of which @express bowling has already done a fantastic analysis ), lets understand where Srinath came from. 

The 90's Indian teams used to be mental midgets. Come pressure, and you would expect the Indians to crumble. The mindset of the whole Indian nation was not agressive either. Srinath grew up watching this, that too from the quaint, silent city of Mysore. Before long he made his debut, he had all kinds of resistance from the big boss, Kapil Dev who made sure Srinath never grew as long as Dev was in the team. The result was Srinath didnt play for almost 2 yrs, 2 best yrs of his career where he could have learnt so much. 

Our coaches had a different mindset too. Compromise pace for line and length. The kind of sports training given during 90's and the kind of budget allotment for players, especially fast bowlers was laughable. 

Despite all these challenges, Srinath bowled fast. Express fast. Never got the recognition! 

But he built the platform for the next gen of bowlers. Ajit Agarkar, Nehra, Zak they all stressed on pace.

 

Bumrah is close to the final product, from the laboratory where Srinath was made.  Srinath was the prototype, Bumrah is almost the final product. 

The contribution of neither could be more or less. They complement each other. Whenever I see Bumrah bowling fast, scaring batsmen, I see Srinath in him. The Srinath who could have been, with better support.

[jf1gp_1]

Srinath was first quick bowler to emerge from India hence most have a soft corner. What people dont remember is he was wayward like agarkar used to give hit me balls. 

[express bowling]

Sadly, even an Indian website and app like Cricbuzz classifies both Bumrah and Srinath as  " Fast-medium ".   Same with Espncricinfo.

 

While someone like Ngidi, who rarely crosses 140 kph, is classified as  " Fast " by Cricbuzz.  While Amir and Rubel are classified as " Fast " by Espncricinfo.  This inferiority complex and bias, which existed during Srinath's era, is still there.

[raki05]

4 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

I avoided this thread earlier, because in my thoughts, the comparison cannot be made with the stats and performances. In a nutshell, I would say Bumrah exists today, because of the Srinath of the 90's! Srinath was the pioneer ( almost, if we disregard Amar Singh and Nissar of the 40's ) of genuine fast bowling in India. 

 

Without going into the nitty gritties of stats ( of which @express bowling has already done a fantastic analysis ), lets understand where Srinath came from. 

The 90's Indian teams used to be mental midgets. Come pressure, and you would expect the Indians to crumble. The mindset of the whole Indian nation was not agressive either. Srinath grew up watching this, that too from the quaint, silent city of Mysore. Before long he made his debut, he had all kinds of resistance from the big boss, Kapil Dev who made sure Srinath never grew as long as Dev was in the team. The result was Srinath didnt play for almost 2 yrs, 2 best yrs of his career where he could have learnt so much. 

Our coaches had a different mindset too. Compromise pace for line and length. The kind of sports training given during 90's and the kind of budget allotment for players, especially fast bowlers was laughable. 

Despite all these challenges, Srinath bowled fast. Express fast. Never got the recognition! 

But he built the platform for the next gen of bowlers. Ajit Agarkar, Nehra, Zak they all stressed on pace.

 

Bumrah is close to the final product, from the laboratory where Srinath was made.  Srinath was the prototype, Bumrah is almost the final product. 

The contribution of neither could be more or less. They complement each other. Whenever I see Bumrah bowling fast, scaring batsmen, I see Srinath in him. The Srinath who could have been, with better support.

Well said,.....our senior famed  cricketers always spoiled juniors especially if they are competition. Dev was legend in cricketing terms but had shady past whether it's grooming juniors, dispute with captain tendulkar whike he was coach and last but not the least involvement in fixing controversy.

[Rohan Mukherjee]

On 7/5/2019 at 4:20 AM, bowl_out said:

Srinath was good but Bumrah is a different league. We've never had someone as fast and accurate as him. Never.

 

Plus his bowling looks effortless because of his hyper extension which keeps him mostly injury 

Srinath was more faster than bumrah with around arm action