Would Kapil Dev make it into the current Indian bowling line up as a strike bowler?

[vvvslaxman]

Ofcourse. He had amazing control over long bowling spells.  He is one of the best outswing bowler in cricket history.  The accuracy with which he could control his swing was unbelievable. 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

Kapil had this wobbling effect with different type of balls (not just SG)  something you don't see much now. He was always very good at keeping the ball within the stumps at a near perfect length for a very long period.

[Gollum]

He would walk in and be a sub-25 avg all conditions bowler. 

[Gollum]

A Kapil at #6/#7 in this team and we would give ATG WI/Aus a run for their money. 

[Vilander]

Kapil was much better than pandya so yes he will make it to the team. He probably is not as good as Bumrah Shami. Bhuvi i dont know cant say. He is better than Ishant ao he might make it as a pure bowler. 

 

So basically he walks into the team. Which is about right he is ab ATG all rounder.

[Vilander]

5 hours ago, maniac said:

I don't think Bhuvi will be chosen over Umesh in Indian and Aus conditions 9/10 times may be in Eng or Nzl. Also benching Shami for Bhuvi was a blunder.

Anyways back to the topic I am talking about Kapil Dev the bowler, not the athlete, not the batsman, not the total package.  Yes, it is incredible what he did with no support, no doubt about that. My question is if the options were Bumrah,Shami,Ishant,Bhuvi,Umesh and Kapil was a batsman of Chris Martin's caliber, how many names would he be picked over. that was the premise of the question.

I think he will below bumrah shami as an option overseas and home as a pure bowler.

[maniac]

16 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Kapil was much better than pandya so yes he will make it to the team. He probably is not as good as Bumrah Shami. Bhuvi i dont know cant say. He is better than Ishant ao he might make it as a pure bowler. 

 

So basically he walks into the team. Which is about right he is ab ATG all rounder.

He is leagues ahead of Bhuvi though as a pure bowler.

[rkt.india]

7 hours ago, putrevus said:

He would still pick the first pick of the team.Ask this question when Shami ,Bumrah and Co reach 250 plus wickets under 27 avg.These guys have never played in Pakistan on those dead wickets with those fricking umpires who never gave LBWs.Kapil with DRS would be deadly .

Kapil averages 29 plus, not 27 in an era where plenty bowlers were averaged early 20s.

[Rightarmfast]

7 hours ago, MechEng said:

@Rightarmfast if a batsman scores a test 100 against Bumrah - Shami - Ishant - Umesh quartet, will it be considered a top knock like how we would rate knocks against great bowling line ups of South Africa, West Indies and etc.?

Right you are. It will be a top knock. These 3-4 bowlers, along with the spinners and top notch fielding are relentless. Top class and as good as any bowler across any era. And just as quick as any.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Rightarmfast

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Kapil averages 29 plus, not 27 in an era where plenty bowlers were averaged early 20s.

The reason was he was overbowling. There used to be a joke. "Can we use kapil from both ends".  Once the ball gets old wicekt taking gets harder. It is natural. But unfortunately Kapil was the only go to bowler India had. He unnecessarily bowled too many overs than required. There was one test against the mighty Windies he picked 9 for 83. He was bowling non stop from one end. He had no choice but to do that.  His average against all conquering Windies was around 24 with 96 wickets.  Also Pakistan umpiring was horrendous. So was Australian umpiring. Kapil at best is as good as anyone. 

[ShoonyaSifar]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Kapil averages 29 plus, not 27 in an era where plenty bowlers were averaged early 20s.

He averaged 29 at a time when for the first 50 years of our cricket host, not one Indian pacer had taken even 50 test wickets and averaged under 30.

 

There is a reason why he was as our Wisden Cricketer of the century in 2000.

 

Oh I forgot, he did not bowl fast, that invalidates all his achievements.

[MechEng]

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

Right you are. It will be a top knock. These 3-4 bowlers, along with the spinners and top notch fielding are relentless. Top class and as good as any bowler across any era. And just as quick as any.

Especially in Indian conditions where Umesh is a different bowler.

Edited October 31, 2019 by MechEng

[vvvslaxman]

27 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

He averaged 29 at a time when for the first 50 years of our cricket host, not one Indian pacer had taken even 50 test wickets and averaged under 30.

 

There is a reason why he was as our Wisden Cricketer of the century in 2000.

 

Oh I forgot, he did not bowl fast, that invalidates all his achievements.

People don't realize how hard it is to be a lone strike bowler for more than a decade. Take out Shami/Ishan pair up Bumrah with Vivek Razdan, Raju Kulkarni , Bumrah will be out with injury in 2 series. India's best spinners were either from the 70s or 2000s, 2010s. Not 80s. Basically not a threatening spinner. Not a threatening pacer besides kapil. 

[Rightarmfast]

27 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

People don't realize how hard it is to be a lone strike bowler for more than a decade. Take out Shami/Ishan pair up Bumrah with Vivek Razdan, Raju Kulkarni , Bumrah will be out with injury in 2 series. India's best spinners were either from the 70s or 2000s, 2010s. Not 80s. Basically not a threatening spinner. Not a threatening pacer besides kapil. 

It is hard to be a lone bowler. However, the no of matches Kapil Dev played were significantly lower. He was playing as less as 10-15 ODI's and 8-9 test matches every year, if not less for a long period of time. 

Richard Hadlee was another who did not have much support from the other end. He did not even have good batsmen to support his bowling unlike Kapil.

But the point is, the work load cannot be compared to the work load of today.

[rtmohanlal]

Is there any doubt in this? Kapil would easily  have been the 2nd best seam bowler in this line up baring Bumrah.As I always maintain Kapil is a 26.25-26.8  range calibre  bowler . His avg; was reduced to  29.64 due to 3 factors namely longevity, heavy work density( In the time span  Kapil bowled  his first 21823 balls he had a work density  of 31.8% more compared to  Botham who bowled only 21815 balls in his entire career) & weak support bowling strength(Botham had  basically 3  '31.53 averaging bowlers' to support him thru out  where as for Kapil that was only 38.8  in his first 21823 balls). When conditions suited him Kapil  could do it all alone  as his 23 5wkt hauls suggest. Similarly Kapil was 3rd in a list of all premiere bowlers with  the maximum percentage of 'top order wickets '. Of his 434 wkts , slightly more than 50%    of that   were TOW . On a side note some one like Akram had only around 39% . These all points to the calibre of performance of that legendary player.

 

He easily is the 3rd best all rounder of all time in my book.

[R!TTER]

4 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

Is there any doubt in this? Kapil would easily  have been the 2nd best seam bowler in this line up baring Bumrah.

He would still be no.1 as far as I'm concerned, we haven't seen Bumrah bowl on the really testing & unforgiving pitches, which Kapil regularly encountered abroad & even in India, I'm not even counting the huge disadvantage of playing against home umpires back in the day, especially in Pak. Kapil would easily avg somewhere close to 25 in this era, with a much better Indian team & mediocre batting lineups everywhere else! Did I mention DRS, my bad 

[R!TTER]

DP!

Edited October 31, 2019 by R!TTER

[express bowling]

21 hours ago, MechEng said:

Bumrah Shami Umesh and Ishant are mostly in 135-140 range

 

True only for Ishant and Umesh of the last 2 years.

 

Bumrah usually bowls lots of deliveries in the 140 k to 146 k range and some deliveries in the 147 k to 150 k range in his quicker spells.

 

Shami almost always bowls lots of deliveries in the 140 k to 146 k range, especially 2016 onwards.

 

Umesh of 2011 to mid 2017 was always 135 k to 148 k range and touched or crossed 150 k on good days.

Edited October 31, 2019 by express bowling

[express bowling]

If Kapil were playing today

 

Our first choice pace attack would have been 

 

Bumrah

Shami

Kapil

 

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

He averaged 29 at a time when for the first 50 years of our cricket host, not one Indian pacer had taken even 50 test wickets and averaged under 30.

 

There is a reason why he was as our Wisden Cricketer of the century in 2000.

 

Oh I forgot, he did not bowl fast, that invalidates all his achievements.

Yes, but that doesn't make him shoe in currently. What he did in 80s has no bearing on today.