Stop derating team india under kohli

[Global.Baba]

4 hours ago, mancalledsting said:

Been saying this for ages, Kohli has every success glossed over and every failure blown up. Sad times, it’s better to enjoy these times then constantly whine like a biatch

A bilateral series is nothing to cheat thump about where as if you lose to your arch rivals in a final and that too badly because of boneheaded decisions and get knocked out of an ICC tournament in the semis it will obviously be magnified.

 

Beating Bangla,WI,SL etc is nothing to gloat about. Yes he pulled it off in Aus but also overall the other tours were a disaster.

 

Better than Dhoni in tests is not a benchmark really.

[Vijy]

7 hours ago, ungboysj said:

The hate kohli and team india gets it appears that team has been loosing everywhere let's have a look at real facts

Tests 

In india unbeatable only lost 1 match ever under kohli have beaten every test nation 

Away won in sri Lanka twice won in wi twice won in Australia nz yet to play. 

Ok lost in sa but in first test came very close to win just lost by a whisker and abdv was in God mode

Engalnd lost but lost 2 alive matches by very less margin of 50 runs 

And lets be honest it's not that india was winning everywhere before kohli

 

Odis 

Won odi series in sa aus nz wi sl

always winning every series in india

 

Ok lost world Cup but maybe England was destined to win it also reached sf

 

I can't recall many losses under kohli he has done really well give him some credit

we have zero ICC trophies under Rat. and we lost series in Eng and SA. in comparison, SL clean swept SA (who was lacking ABDV admittedly) and Pak drew with Eng. if you are satisfied with being on the level of Pak or SL in tests, then kudos to you. even the Oz tour, I am quite certain we would have lost it if Smith, Warner and peak-Labu were playing.

[mancalledsting]

4 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

A bilateral series is nothing to cheat thump about where as if you lose to your arch rivals in a final and that too badly because of boneheaded decisions and get knocked out of an ICC tournament in the semis it will obviously be magnified.

 

Beating Bangla,WI,SL etc is nothing to gloat about. Yes he pulled it off in Aus but also overall the other tours were a disaster.

 

Better than Dhoni in tests is not a benchmark really.

except his captaincy stats are up there with captains of ATG teams like Waugh and Ponting's Australia; I'm sure you'd agree that Kohli has less resources at his disposal than those two. 

[Khota]

You lose two tounaments which you could have won. Yes you will be derated.

[R!TTER]

6 hours ago, mancalledsting said:

except his captaincy stats are up there with captains of ATG teams like Waugh and Ponting's Australia; I'm sure you'd agree that Kohli has less resources at his disposal than those two. 

And much worse opponents, except England & WI, oh wait that doesn't count 

[New guy]

16 hours ago, mancalledsting said:

Been saying this for ages, Kohli has every success glossed over and every failure blown up. Sad times, it’s better to enjoy these times then constantly whine like a biatch

No one glosses over his tests achievements for a reason. In LOIs its trophies that matters. We have an ATG team but not ATG results 

[Cricwala]

On 1/26/2020 at 4:14 PM, jf1gp_1 said:

Between 2007 and 13 i.e. 6 yrs India won 3 ICC trophy which translates to one every two years.

 

Kohli has been captain for almost 5 yrs now.

I get the drift, but that's a tad unfair...he has been LOI captain for 3 of those 5 years. Whether we like or not, he's locked in till 2023 WC and if he is still title-less till then, he will surely go down as an under-achiever given the quality talent pool at his disposal

[Cricwala]

23 hours ago, Yoda-esque said:

Kohli is much better than MSD

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Better than post 2011 WC MSD in tests and post 2015 WC MSD in LOIs...Any day!

[Vilander]

New addition to dictionary, Deride + Berate = Derate may be  

[Yoda-esque]

Sarcasm?

No Sir...Bowling has gone up a few notches under Kohli..Batting might have dipped a little but nonetheless Bowlers will win you matches more often than not.

I am convinced Kohli's aggressive attitude is better than MSDs defensive wait and watch game.

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[G_B_]

Win a trophy and much of the critique will go

[RajBan]

1 hour ago, Yoda-esque said:

No Sir...Bowling has gone up a few notches under Kohli..Batting might have dipped a little but nonetheless Bowlers will win you matches more often than not.

I am convinced Kohli's aggressive attitude is better than MSDs defensive wait and watch game.

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This is partly true. While Kohli is definitely more aggressive as a captain compared to Dhoni post 2011 WC win, it is also true that India has finally broken the threshold in it's domestic system where it sees tons of good bowlers emerging every alternate year. A bowler is much more than balling fast. Understanding his strengths and weaknesses is key to maximizing his effectiveness. Kohli is a confused soul in terms of picking the best combination based on circumstances and pitch conditions. His internal bias and his Bewda mentor does not help either.  He continues to select Shardul who is ordinary over Saini ; Siraj never got a proper run when he was running through the sides in first class; Shami did not play WC semis.

 

Bottom line - Indian fast bowling success under Kohli is partly his inclination to fast bowling but more to luck that he got a very thinking bowler like Jaspreet Bumrah, a matured Ishant for which Kohli can't claim any credit and resurgence of Shami after initial years of hit and miss and some good bowling by Umesh in home tests. Kohli continues to be inept on his fielding placements, onfield decision making and bowling changes at times and overall selection of squad. If at all it's Kohli's failure for screwing up key matches and pathetic performance in SA and England due to his inept captaincy.

[jf1gp_1]

11 hours ago, Cricwala said:

I get the drift, but that's a tad unfair...he has been LOI captain for 3 of those 5 years. Whether we like or not, he's locked in till 2023 WC and if he is still title-less till then, he will surely go down as an under-achiever given the quality talent pool at his disposal

I have lived through the golden age of Indian cricket know as 90s, I can accept not winning icc event. My issue is Virat is so impulsive WC semi we had 3 keepers plus Rahul in playing xi today we are playing with only rahul because it,'feels right'? No point having a talent pool if you don't know how to use it. Virat when he retires will leave an empty cup not developed a single batsman. That said our bowling transformation is all thanks to Virat he has invested in bowlers and unlike batsman not one bowler can complaint they didn't get a fair run. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by jf1gp_1

[raki05]

3 hours ago, jf1gp_1 said:

I have lived through the golden age of Indian cricket know as 90s, I can accept not winning icc event. My issue is Virat is so impulsive WC semi we had 3 keepers plus Rahul in playing xi today we are playing with only rahul because it,'feels right'? No point having a talent pool if you don't know how to use it. Virat when he retires will leave an empty cup not developed a single batsman. That said our bowling transformation is all thanks to Virat he has invested in bowlers and unlike batsman not one bowler can complaint they didn't get a fair run. 

In test , Agree. Not in LOI as most of the bowlers he has given chance were junk other than Saini.

[Straight Drive]

11 hours ago, G_B_ said:

Win a trophy and much of the critique will go

Indeed, the lack of major titles wins in T20i and ODI under his leadership are the biggest blot on his captaincy. Hope he gives us some major titles to celebrate like Kapil and Dhoni.

[RajBan]

4 hours ago, jf1gp_1 said:

I have lived through the golden age of Indian cricket know as 90s, I can accept not winning icc event. My issue is Virat is so impulsive WC semi we had 3 keepers plus Rahul in playing xi today we are playing with only rahul because it,'feels right'? No point having a talent pool if you don't know how to use it. Virat when he retires will leave an empty cup not developed a single batsman. That said our bowling transformation is all thanks to Virat he has invested in bowlers and unlike batsman not one bowler can complaint they didn't get a fair run. 

90s was actually a low point in Indian cricket. 

 

The golden generation of Gavaskar, Vengsarkar , Kapil either moved out or at the end of their career.

Azhar and Wadekar built up a template for home series but clueless for away. Infact we were the worst of the worst during away series. We used to glorify home series wins and go mum during away series. (Unfortunately Dhoni post 2011 fallen for that template where we open tried to endorse home series wins and act indifferent to white washes in SENA countries)

 

Nepotism and Lobbying was at it's peak. People backed by Mumbai lobby and Azhar's favourites inspite of mediocrity continued to get chances.

 

Manju and Sastry were as usual more busy with fingering others rather than focussing on their performance. A young talented left hander of 21 who was considered one of the top most talent after Sachin was ridiculed during Australia tour and promptly cut off after he gave it back to Sastry and Manju for trying to bully him. Dont be surprised if you see similarity with Pant, KL, Saini? (It's a different thing that left hander came back strong in the second half of the decade, became the captain and led the golden generation of Indian cricket in 2000s)

 

Sandeep Patil and Bishen Sing Bedi used to be mainstream cricket experts. Patil was even the coach at some point. And both of them used to speak nonsense throughout just like what Bewda is doing today.

 

Lastly the highpoint - match fixing came up to the surface with direct involvement of captain, one of the batting mainstay , the number one Wicketkeeper and the number one all-rounder - all part of main team.

 

[R!TTER]

50 minutes ago, RajBan said:

Nepotism and Lobbying was at it's peak. People backed by Mumbai lobby and Azhar's favourites inspite of mediocrity continued to get chances.

I'd say the biggest blot by far, was fixers like Azhar & Jadeja. You don't think there's carious SIG in BCCI today pushing their agenda or players, heck Mama's corrupting influence still lingers a decade after in the form of Dhongi 

[RajBan]

6 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

I'd say the biggest blot by far, was fixers like Azhar & Jadeja. You don't think there's carious SIG in BCCI today pushing their agenda or players, heck Mama's corrupting influence still lingers a decade after in the form of Dhongi 

I agree. He became complicit to Srini's power politics and they started protecting their own interest and CsK brand at the cost of fans and national teams interest. Arrogance set in the whole system and with a dumbo like Kohli at the helm we only regressed further.

 

[SRT100]

Team India is is in so much trouble for this upcoming T20 World Cup , that the captain and management are too blinded to see the glaring issues.

 

India has a very weak middle order in batting that will be comprehensively exposed, broken and torn apart in Australia. The bowling is another area of concern, because I really have my doubts outside of Bumrah.

 

Batting and bowling in Australia is far different to the walk in the park we have had of late in India. Even in the two T20 already in NZ, one score was over 200 and the other innings was on par again for 200 after the first 6 overs.

 

Kohli needs to actually rest certain players and give the bench players the opportunity in NZ. I would drop Bumrah as well and play Saini.

Bumrah in ODI is just an absolute waste of time. This is T20 World Cup year. Do not play him.

 

Kohli actually needs to drop himself in NZ and give players like Pant and Samson the opportunities. Everyone knows Kohli is world class. Every innings he plays is useless in terms of preparation for the World Cup. At the very least he needs to bat always well down the order to at least give every batsmen and all rounder the chance to bat.

 

Otherwise the problems of the ODI World Cup 2019 are going to happen.

 

History is going to repeat itself.

 

I guarantee you that Pant will play in the World Cup 2020, but again will be afforded little previous game time.

[Vilander]

On 1/26/2020 at 5:52 AM, sarchasm said:

He has benched Saini - MoS from the last series and chosen Shardul. And in two consecutive matches Shardul has not bowled his full quota of overs. What's he getting picked for?

this 

 

No one can explain this.