Who names their kid knowing that the name is that of a tyrant?

[Mariyam]

14 minutes ago, maniac said:

I am pretty sure Osama means something nice in Persian/Arabic etc.....Sure parent's are more than welcome naming their kids that..it is their right.

 

 

I don't see the harm. Osama is a common first name. Unless the parents name their kid Bin Laden, why should it be seen as any kind of conformance with Bin Laden's ideology??

 

For instance, would you assume that parents naming their kid Jack (the Ripper) subscribe to the school of thought that serial killing is justified? 

 

Way too many assumptions here.

[Mariyam]

34 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

Pseudo-scientific myth. There is no evidence of "Aryan invaders."

Kareena herself stated that "Saif is a historian and would want an old school name." It's pretty clear what she means by that.

 

It isn't clear to me at all.

Just a simple wiki search shows that Taimur the invader massacred 5% of the worlds population, reducing parts of the Muslim world i.e Persia and Baghdad to rubble.  The barbarian was just as eager to shed Muslim blood as that of the infidel. Don't see anything in your earlier post that indicates the couple naming their son after the tyrant.

 

Saif (which means sword, btw) was all OK when he acted in patriotic movies like Phantom and Agent Vinod. Now he names his son Taimur and becomes stupid/weird? 

[G_B_]

MK stalin anybody......

 

 

[randomGuy]

3 hours ago, vayuu1 said:

 

http://indianexpress.com/article/entertainment/bollywood/taimur-ali-khan-taimur-meaning-kareena-kapoor-saif-ali-khan-kareena-kapoor-saif-ali-khan-baby-boy-4437108/

 

 

We have a city and colony named after tyrants (aurangabad, Timarpur, babarpur )in Delhi, so what's the fuss, beside these are their role models, look at Pakistani for example ghori, ghaznavi, abdali, taimur, langur, and what not.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk

Langur... hahaha.

 

Agree with the OP btw.

 

 

[randomGuy]

15 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

MK stalin anybody......

 

 

Did Stalin kill Indians? Pls educate me.

Taimur was an outsider (this is important) and he killed so many Indians. Why would an Indian name his/her baby after someone like that knowingly?

[cric_fan]

Absolute Morons....won't be surprised if these idiots didn't know history and just picked this name because it sounded cool....Begum Sharmila and co. will be the first in line to talk about secularism and intolerance crap and then end up doing things like this.

 

Good luck to the kid growing up...only way he can escape bullying if he goes to those schools with half-collapsing roofs in Byculla or Old City Hyd where you will see a 12 year old who looks 4 and a 12 year old who looks 40 going to the same class.

Yea well then the potentiak bullies need to be put in their place.

So much fury over something trivial.

[cric_fan]

Absolute Morons....won't be surprised if these idiots didn't know history and just picked this name because it sounded cool....Begum Sharmila and co. will be the first in line to talk about secularism and intolerance crap and then end up doing things like this.

 

Good luck to the kid growing up...only way he can escape bullying if he goes to those schools with half-collapsing roofs in Byculla or Old City Hyd where you will see a 12 year old who looks 4 and a 12 year old who looks 40 going to the same class.

Yea well then the potentiak bullies need to be put in their place.

So much fury over something trivial.

[Tibarn]

 

2 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Just a simple wiki search shows that Taimur the invader massacred 5% of the worlds population, reducing parts of the Muslim world i.e Persia and Baghdad to rubble.

Yes he was a mass murderer.

 

2 hours ago, Mariyam said:

The barbarian was just as eager to shed Muslim blood as that of the infidel.

Right, killing innocent people is bad. If he killed innocent Muslims, along with so-called "infidels" then he is still a mass murderer.

 

2 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Don't see anything in your earlier post that indicates the couple naming their son after the tyrant.

The way I see it:

 

A) The duo name the kid Timur

B) Kareena answers that Saif is a Historian (and)

C) Kareena  says Saif would want to have a traditional, old school name   

B+C ---> A

 

Her answer, an and statement,  necessitates that both conditions B and C are true:

B) Saif is a historian: 

Her statement suggests that there was historical factors related to the decision. Otherwise what would be the need to mention that Saif is a historian?  

What are the possible historical meanings of Timur for a historian :  

1)  Timur the lame- the mass murderer whose arguably most famous for his sack of Delhi, especially in India, where Saif lives

2)  Timur the mongol word that is a cognate for Demir in Turkish,which translates to  two languages that near nonexistent in India and Indian history

3)  A name that is used historically in the Central Asian republics. 

   i) If one thinks 3), then one would have to acknowledge that the name came via invasion into India

C)Saif would want to have a traditional, old school name: This relies on the tradition and antiquity of the name, that differs from area to area

1) In Central Asia: a name derived from Mongols and Turks

2) In India: the name arrives with the mass murdering tyrant, any tradition derives and antiquity arrives from him

3)  In the "Muslim World"(the rest of the places he invaded): once again the name would have arrived from his murdering and pillaging. 

 

I think it is pretty clear that only B1 and C2 are what the most plausible options are. If you don't , that's ok. 

2 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Saif (which means sword, btw) was all OK when he acted in patriotic movies like Phantom and Agent Vinod. Now he names his son Taimur and becomes stupid/weird? 

 

I don't give people credit for "patriotic" movies, and never liked Bollywood in particular.  However, if someone did like him when he made patriotic movies and now dislikes him for celebrating a tyrant, that is perfectly fine. A more recent event can change one's opinion of another. 

 

To add to that, a film is something that is a person's job. It doesn't necessarily reflect their views or character. People don't think actresses are prostitutes just because they act in a movie as one.  Naming one's child is a different story.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Tibarn

[zen]

The word Mughal(s) itself appears to be a version of Mongol(s), who had one of the biggest empire in the history 

 

It is hard to judge the deeds commited in the  past such as 14th century through today's lens. At that time the sword ruled. Today the pen rules

 

 

 

[Texy]

Kareena is the worst thing to come out of "kapoor" family 

[diga]

7 hours ago, jalebi_bhai said:

Q. Who names their kid after a tyrant?

 

A. People who suffer from Stockholm syndrome.

Publicity hoggers who want their kids name trending on twitter... Cant imagine the childhood of the kid with such pompous parents

Edited December 21, 2016 by diga

[punjabi_khota]

2 hours ago, Texy said:

Kareena is the worst thing to come out of "kapoor" family 

Tushar

[coffee_rules]

2 hours ago, zen said:

The word Mughal(s) itself appears to be a version of Mongol(s), who had one of the biggest empire in the history 

 

It is hard to judge the deeds commited in the  past such as 14th century through today's lens. At that time the sword ruled. Today the pen rules

 

 

 

There are very few in history who did barbaric acts and relished it writing about it. Such peoples' acts are still relevant today. On one hand , it is ok to hate Ghazni, but the same acts done by this dude , his name has a spiritual significance? 

 

We have a exec named Adolfo and other one Hitler. It is so odd to address them in meetings and emails. 

 

Saifeena might have named their kid in all reverance to it's spiritual significance, but others can take offense or make fun of it. Thats the point of the OP.

 

In one of the Seinfeld episode, they show how odd it can be, if one's name sounds like a serial killer's name. (Joel Rifkin).

[Muloghonto]

6 hours ago, Mariyam said:

How come no outrage when the other Khan named his son Aryan?? After, you know, the invading tribes that subdued and displaced the locals of the Indus Valley region. The actual sons/daughters of the soil.

 

The name Taimur predates the barbaric emperor Timur. To say that the couple named the kid after the Central Asian conqueror is pure conjecture on the part of the OP.

 

As an aside, the worst name for a star kid is Mimoh/Mahaakshay. Why do parents do that to their kids? 

 

 

That is mostly a false narrative actually. Genetic data shows that there is no significant migration into the Indian subcontinent in the last 12-15 thousand years, except for haplotype J, that originates in west Asia (found at 1-5% prevalence rate)

[Muloghonto]

5 hours ago, Mariyam said:

It isn't clear to me at all.

Just a simple wiki search shows that Taimur the invader massacred 5% of the worlds population, reducing parts of the Muslim world i.e Persia and Baghdad to rubble.  The barbarian was just as eager to shed Muslim blood as that of the infidel. Don't see anything in your earlier post that indicates the couple naming their son after the tyrant.

 

Saif (which means sword, btw) was all OK when he acted in patriotic movies like Phantom and Agent Vinod. Now he names his son Taimur and becomes stupid/weird? 

Timur/Taymur is actually analogous to Stalin - they both mean 'Iron' in Turkic (Taimur) & Georgian (Stalin).

 

[coffee_rules]

Timur also called himself , The Sword (Saif, in urdu) of Islam.

[G_B_]

9 hours ago, randomGuy said:

Did Stalin kill Indians? Pls educate me.

Taimur was an outsider (this is important) and he killed so many Indians. Why would an Indian name his/her baby after someone like that knowingly?

he was a tyrant...that was my point.

[Muloghonto]

11 hours ago, Mariyam said:

I don't see the harm. Osama is a common first name. Unless the parents name their kid Bin Laden, why should it be seen as any kind of conformance with Bin Laden's ideology??

 

For instance, would you assume that parents naming their kid Jack (the Ripper) subscribe to the school of thought that serial killing is justified? 

 

Way too many assumptions here.

This is faulty logic, because Jack and Osama are common name, which until very, very recently (yes, late 1800s is recent when you get into history) has only been a common name & not a name of some major historical figure.

Timur on the other hand, has been an old name, but for the last 600+ years, has been unanimously associated with Tamerlane. 

Same way how Mohammed is also an old name, but exclusively associated with a so-called prophet. 

[Mariyam]

10 hours ago, Tibarn said:

B) Saif is a historian: 

Her statement suggests that there was historical factors related to the decision. Otherwise what would be the need to mention that Saif is a historian?  

What are the possible historical meanings of Timur for a historian :  

1)  Timur the lame- the mass murderer whose arguably most famous for his sack of Delhi, especially in India, where Saif lives

2)  Timur the mongol word that is a cognate for Demir in Turkish,which translates to  two languages that near nonexistent in India and Indian history

3)  A name that is used historically in the Central Asian republics. 

   i) If one thinks 3), then one would have to acknowledge that the name came via invasion into India

C)Saif would want to have a traditional, old school name: This relies on the tradition and antiquity of the name, that differs from area to area

1) In Central Asia: a name derived from Mongols and Turks

2) In India: the name arrives with the mass murdering tyrant, any tradition derives and antiquity arrives from him

3)  In the "Muslim World"(the rest of the places he invaded): once again the name would have arrived from his murdering and pillaging. 

I think it is pretty clear that only B1 and C2 are what the most plausible options are. If you don't , that's ok. 

 

C2 seems to be an inference you've made. The ruling class of Delhi during the years of the Sultanate were of Turkic origin and spoke the Turkic languages. It is very likely some of them were named Taimur before this specific Taimur was in the picture.

On the back of what data do you make the claim that the name arrived with the conqueror?

[Mariyam]

11 hours ago, randomGuy said:

Did Stalin kill Indians? Pls educate me.

Taimur was an outsider (this is important) and he killed so many Indians. Why would an Indian name his/her baby after someone like that knowingly?

Emperor Ashok (on whom the epithet 'the Great' was later bestowed) killed Indians. Would you be okay with an Indian naming his/her baby after someone like that knowingly? Ashok Kumar's dad must have been a weird guy or a publicity hogger?

 

PS: There is nothing to indicate that the couple have named the kid after Tamerlane the conqueror.