Dinesh Karthik to replace Manish Pandey for Champions Trophy

[express bowling]

8 hours ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

Rahane has a good ODI record in England. got a match-winning hundred when india won the ODI series there in 2014.

 

the team looks fine, i don't know why people are whining. on paper, its the best team in the tournament. first two games against pak and SL are guaranteed wins, and a guaranteed semi final place.

 

look at the averages they have:

 

Rohit, 41

Dhawan, 40

Kohli, 52

Yuvraj, 37

Dhoni, 50

Kedar, 58

Pandya, 53, bowl 33

Jadeja, 32, 35

Ashwin, 32

Shami, 25

Bumrah, 22

 

The bowling is very good.   Not an issue.  Infact, Bhuvi or Umesh will most probably replace Ashwin in England and the pace attack is one of the best we have ever had in ODIs.

 

The batting has issues.  Career averages are not reflective of current ability. form and playing style.

 

Both Dhoni and Yuvraj are past their best and although they will come up with some stellar knocks once in a while, I don't expect them to be consistent.  That is one of the issues.

 

The other one is slow starts. Both Rohit and Dhawan are slow starters and that is not the ideal approach nowadays. It is practical to have atleast one opener who can make use of PPs.

 

Having one good young batsmen in place of either Yuvraj or Dhoni  and using an opener who is a fast starter ......will plug almost every loophole of this side.

[Manny_Pacquiao]

13 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Having one good young batsmen in place of either Yuvraj or Dhoni  and using an opener who is a fast starter ......will plug almost every loophole of this side.

why on earth would the selectors drop yuvraj or dhoni when they scored hundreds in the last series?

 

rohit and dhawan aren't slow starters, that is unless you consider going at around 80-85 slow. and when they get set, they bat through til the 40th over and score big hundreds to set up the game.

[Manny_Pacquiao]

53 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

That was against a poor eng odi side who was changed within few mnths.....

Neither he is going to play against eng only in CT

i'm just saying that the selectors had a good reason to pick him.

 

and that bowling attack was hardly any worse than the current england attack. in 2014 they had anderson, finn, woakes, ali.

now they have wood, woakes, willey, ball, rashid, plunkett.

 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

50 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Both Dhoni and Yuvraj are past their best and although they will come up with some stellar knocks once in a while, I don't expect them to be consistent.  That is one of the issues.

True, one of them has to go

Although i feel dhoni is just going through a bad phase which had to hppen sometime with him. He still isnt that bad in his bad phase as other become. He is still gr8 behind the stumps and contributes massively to kohlis captaincy. With dhoni i have hope things will get better as phase changes. for me he still shud be a part of 2019 WC as he brings a lot on table 

 

Coming to yuvi, he has come out of his bad phase and his current good phase is still not that encouraging . Currently he doesnt add much with his fielding and bowling to . He has chance this CT to earn his place but for that he has to score heavy 

 

This team ideally needs 3 changes for 2019 

An opener who can give a fast start allowing rohit to play his game. Someone like Pant or kishen 

No 4......KL or someone solid who can also whack when needed. Not only shud he be able to handle a early collapse but shud be able to explode when needed. 

A no 6, jadhav has done really well but his fitness worries me for 2019. Someone like Shankar n krunal shud be looked for this role as they can also give us extra overs. Deepak hooda can also be a candidate 

 

For me dhoni stays as we need another experienced person then kohli in middle 

42 minutes ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

rohit and dhawan aren't slow starters, that is unless you consider going at around 80-85 slow. and when they get set, they bat through til the 40th over and score big hundreds to set up the game.

Yes they are slow starters we have given the stats so many times in comparison to other teams opener

they just cover up well, but they dnt start that quick and most of times this has backfires as they have lost wkt in between .

 

So sooner or later a change in this opening partnership is must. 

37 minutes ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

i'm just saying that the selectors had a good reason to pick him.

 

and that bowling attack was hardly any worse than the current england attack. in 2014 they had anderson, finn, woakes, ali.

now they have wood, woakes, willey, ball, rashid, plunkett.

His disastor ODI record is also a good reson why he shud not be picked

His last 6 odi games is another reason

HE is not going to play only eng in CT, who knws eng might be even knocked out 

[kubrickian]

 

47 minutes ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

why on earth would the selectors drop yuvraj or dhoni when they scored hundreds in the last series?

 

rohit and dhawan aren't slow starters, that is unless you consider going at around 80-85 slow. and when they get set, they bat through til the 40th over and score big hundreds to set up the game.

I think it will again depend on Kohli or Rohit to do the bulk of scoring and post or chase big totals and others to do supporting roles.

 

If Yuvi or MS are at their best, they'll do the job but they have been largely inconsistent in the recent past and shown they are past it. Guess we'll see what they can do in CT. I reckon its time for couple of replacements, maybe also have another opener who can make use of PP instead of Dhawan who is a slow starter. England, Aus or SA play lot more aggressively in PP and middle overs and therefore have an edge.

[asterix]

They just wanted a backup wicket keeper who can bat a bit and has experience in playing in England...

He won't even get chance till Dhoni is fit to play.

The team will go to WI after that it seems... Dhoni might avoid to travel to WI. Hence this backup...

[BeautifulGame]

They just wanted a backup wicket keeper who can bat a bit and has experience in playing in England...

He won't even get chance till Dhoni is fit to play.

The team will go to WI after that it seems... Dhoni might avoid to travel to WI. Hence this backup...

 

So where was this back up wicket keeper when the initial WK was picked ?

 

We didn't even pick back up wicket keepers for month long 2015 WC and suddenly Karthick is being picked as back up WK for a short tournament like CT?

 

D Karthick has solely forced his way into the team based on his batting form not as WK Batsman

[asterix]

 

So where was this back up wicket keeper when the initial WK was picked ?

 

We didn't even pick back up wicket keepers for month long 2015 WC and suddenly Karthick is being picked as back up WK for a short tournament like CT?

 

D Karthick has solely forced his way into the team based on his batting form not as WK Batsman

It because of the trust deficit between Kohli and Dhoni... Kohli wanted this back up as you never know what Dhoni will do..,

[BeautifulGame]

 

 

 

 

It because of the trust deficit between Kohli and Dhoni... Kohli wanted this back up as you never know what Dhoni will do..,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Keep your conspiracy theories to IPL section lol

 

Nearly fell for it

[express bowling]

On Friday, May 19, 2017 at 0:55 PM, Manny_Pacquiao said:

why on earth would the selectors drop yuvraj or dhoni when they scored hundreds in the last series?

I am talking about consistency, which neither Yuvi nor Dhoni has nowadays.

 

They will obviously be in the squad of 17 but a younger guy is needed to be kept as backup.

 

Quote

rohit and dhawan aren't slow starters, that is unless you consider going at around 80-85 slow. and when they get set, they bat through til the 40th over and score big hundreds to set up the game.

SR of 80 to 85 is not good in the first 10 overs nowadays, especially if both batters are batting like that.

Edited May 20, 2017 by express bowling

[Autonomous]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

I am talking about consistency, which neither Yuvi nor Dhoni nowadays.

 

Tuy will obviously be in the squad of 17 but a younger guy needed to kept as backup.

 

SR of 80 to 85 is not good in the first 10 overs nowadays, especially if both batters are batting like that.,

55-65 runs in first ten overs are pretty good. The rate at which you're saying they play the score will be around 51, And surely they could notch up 5-10 runs more if one of the opener gets going fluently.

 

Rohit is a bit slow starter but he could really take it away once well set, You may say that he is not consistent enough but when he scores big those are impactful runs. 

 

Also a bulk of scoring is made in last 15-20 overs, You can't blame top order only. 

England made 444 runs VS Pakistan at Nottingham last year, They lost Jason Roy early who scored 15 off 19 balls, Joe Root scored at SR of below 100 But Hales carried on and scored 171 off 122.

But their middle order turned the game away with high class power hitting, Morgan scored @211 while Buttler massacred anything he got making 90 off just 51. 

[vvvslaxman]

KARTHIK' selection is based on his performance in Vijay Hazare trophy India's premiere one day tournament.  Played lot of clutch innings including the final.

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/indian-domestic-2016-17/engine/records/batting/most_runs_career.html?class=5;host=6;id=2016%2F17;type=season

[Lannister]

I think its a pretty decent squad. The reason we won the previous CT was mostly because of the bowlers. This year's CT is no different either. The team with best bowling attack will win the tournament. 

[Khota]

Yuvraj, Dhoni and Rohit WILL  fail They will be the cause of India's premature exit and the shameless selectors will have their job. I do not understand the stupidity, immaturity and lack of understanding of people who want a young team. You dont want a young team. You dont want a experienced team, You want the best team.

[bowl_out]

Pandey would not have been in the starting XI.. Neither will DK or Rahane.

 

The starting XI will be:

Dhawan, Rohit, Kohli, Yuvi, MSD, Jadhav, Pandya, Jadeja, Ash, Bhuvi, Bumrah

 

[Tibarn]

I wanted to see N. Rana in the squad, he seems to fit really well at #4 right after Kohli. Karthik is a good chocie as well, but I would've preferred a youthful player like Rana to build for the WC. I'm also disappointed Chahal isn't in the team, I feel we need a leggie. 

[sarcastic]

The Kanitkar hand in Dinesh Karthik’s metamorphosis

 

“In the limited-overs tournaments especially, he was very helpful for Vijay Shankar. Dinesh’s performance should be viewed in a very all-round way, and not just the runs,” says Kanitkar. © Wisden India

It was a first-round fixture of the Ranji Trophy 2016-17 season, the Tamil Nadu v Mumbai match in Lahli, and it was precariously poised.

Tamil Nadu had conceded a sizeable first-innings lead on a tough pitch, but their openers had fought back well to wipe out the deficit in the second innings with a century stand. Soon, the baton was passed to the most experienced player in the Tamil Nadu squad – Dinesh Karthik. They had collapsed to 87 all out in the first innings, and it was up to him to prevent an encore.

To borrow from a now-popular meme template, experts would have expected him to bat through, playing ‘authentic’ shots. Karthik, though, had other ideas; he unleashed a cheeky paddle-scoop, only to see the ball land in short fine-leg’s hands. It sparked a massive Tamil Nadu collapse that led to Mumbai prevailing in the low-scoring game, and Karthik’s ‘ill-advised’ shot was singled out by local media.

“Hrishikesh the coach and Hrishikesh the player are two very detached people. I don’t think they mix and mingle much. I’ve seen that trait a lot in Rahul Dravid and even Matthew Hayden, from whatever interactions I’ve had with him. They don’t talk about their cricketing days a lot, which I admire. Because if you still keep talking about your days, it’s very hard to understand current-day players’ mindset. I really like that about Hrishi. He is very calm and quiet.” – Karthik

Something happened in the four-day gap before the next game that triggered a major turnaround.

Barely days later, Tamil Nadu were in an eerily similar situation against Railways in Bilaspur, with Karthik under the spotlight again. This time, he smashed 163 off 145 balls, setting up a comfortable victory for his team.

Karthik didn’t look back and went on to finish the Ranji Trophy with 704 runs at an average of 54.15. He then went even better it in the limited-overs competitions, making 854 runs from 12 innings, including centuries in the Vijay Hazare and Deodhar Trophy finals that led Tamil Nadu to twin titles. It was the fourth highest tally ever in a List A season in Indian cricket.

The ‘event’ that led to the remarkable upswing in Karthik’s fortunes was a brief conversation with Hrishikesh Kanitkar, Tamil Nadu’s coach.

A dressing down for a rash, game-changing shot wouldn’t have been misplaced, but Kanitkar dealt with it differently.

“It was probably the first time he saw me (play). A lot of people might not have expected it and in fact there were a lot of harsh things written,” Karthik tells Wisden India. “But all he told me was ‘instead of playing the paddle sweep, I think you should have hit over the top’. It was pretty refreshing. He didn’t give me an option saying the situation wasn’t good, you should have probably defended. He knew defending was not a great option on that wicket for long periods of time and that it was important to take the attack to the opposition. He told me I could have gone over the top or played a shot different to this.

“If a coach yells and says this is not the way a senior player should play, these are the shots you should play or you should play more authentic cricket, I would have been under pressure the next time I wanted to execute that shot. But now I knew that he would back me even if I played that shot and got it wrong, because you can get out cover-driving a ball or even defending. It’s not how you get out, it’s the amount of runs you score before you get out that matters. I’m a believer of that.

“He comes across as a very good human being who is very content with whatever he has achieved. I think that’s a very important aspect of a sportsperson,” says Karthik about Kanitkar. © Wisden India

“Credit to him for giving me a lot of space. He has never shown any sort of reaction that is negative in any way. He has been very calm throughout. I failed in the first three innings in the Ranji Trophy. He never asked a word, he didn’t speak to me and allowed me to be. A lot of times, players go through their own pressures and it’s important for a coach to be non-interfering at times. He did that.”

Remind Kanitkar of that conversation, and you can see that there’s mutual respect between the coach and player.

“For experienced cricketers, I like to give them a lot of space because they have been successful for a reason and I respect that,” says Kanitkar. “What I would have done in that situation would be completely different to what Dinesh would do. That was an instinctive shot he played. Basically, I told him that his choice to hit that ball for a four or six was fine with me because that’s how his instincts work. So that’s okay, that’s no problem. But I felt the choice of where to hit that ball could have been better.

“Having played at the first-class level for 19 years, I’ve also made those mistakes at some point. What usually happens is people forget that they’ve also made mistakes when they were playing, and after they retire they suddenly become great players. I don’t want to be like that. I’ve accepted what all bad shots I’ve played in my career and I shouldn’t forget that, and there was no intention to go after any player, not only Dinesh.” – Kanitkar

“You have to remember that the player wants to do his best. There’s no point curbing natural talent. The moment you say something that’s offensive or puts fear in a player, it means you’re taking away his own ability to think, plan and execute. If the coach himself is taking away confidence from the player, what’s left for the opposition to do? Nothing.

“Having played at the first-class level for 19 years, I’ve also made those mistakes at some point. What usually happens is people forget that they’ve also made mistakes when they were playing, and after they retire they suddenly become great players. I don’t want to be like that. I’ve accepted what all bad shots I’ve played in my career and I shouldn’t forget that, and there was no intention to go after any player, not only Dinesh.”

It’s these qualities of Kanitkar that Karthik not only admires, but also aspires to imbibe, especially beyond the cricket field.

“A very key word I associate with him is –he’s a very satisfied human being,” explains Karthik. “I don’t think he has any regret on his career or frustrated about things that probably could have happened. He comes across as a very good human being who is very content with whatever he has achieved. I think that’s a very important aspect of a sportsperson.

“Sometimes you can still constantly live in those years when you were playing, even after finishing. He has moved on in a very graceful manner. I genuinely feel I’ll be a person who’ll be like that when I finish my career, because I feel playing and coaching are different things. I think he has identified that to a large extent.

“Hrishikesh the coach and Hrishikesh the player are two very detached people. I don’t think they mix and mingle much. I’ve seen that trait a lot in Rahul Dravid and even Matthew Hayden, from whatever interactions I’ve had with him. They don’t talk about their cricketing days a lot, which I admire. Because if you still keep talking about your days, it’s very hard to understand current-day players’ mindset. I really like that about Hrishi. He is very calm and quiet.”

Also read: Do away with toss, return to home and away format, says Karthik

‘Calm’ and ‘quiet’ are two words that are hard to associate with Karthik. He is restless in whatever he does and he is happy to be the way he is.

“Being restless is something that’s very me,” he says. “I have all my set of restless rituals before the bowler starts his run up but once he does, I think I’m in decent space. All those nervy things that look very restless from outside is very Dinesh Karthik. I don’t think I can change it, and I don’t want to change it as well.”

Dinesh Karthik has totalled 190 runs from the first seven games Gujarat Lions have played, the runs coming at an average of 38 and a strike rate of 136.69. © BCCI

But one word that can be used to describe Karthik, according to Kanitkar, is ‘responsible’. The coach believes that the responsibility Karthik accepted led to another aspect of batting that was generally not associated with him – consistency.

“He took responsibility for everything he did and the team benefited as well,” points out Kanitkar. “He was looking at a bigger cause than himself. He was looking at how the team can reach the knockouts and such things rather than I should get a 100 or a 50. His cause was much higher than personal gains and that really, really brought the best out of him.

“In the limited-overs tournaments especially, he was very helpful for Vijay Shankar (the captain). Dinesh’s performance should be viewed in a very all-round way, and not just the runs.”

According to Karthik, the consistency is a result of working with multiple people, including Abhishek Nayar, over the last few years.

More importantly, he says it’s a consequence of calmness in the mind, although it doesn’t necessarily show on the exterior.

“Being restless is something that’s very me. I have all my set of restless rituals before the bowler starts his run up but once he does, I think I’m in decent space. All those nervy things that look very restless from outside is very Dinesh Karthik. I don’t think I can change it, and I don’t want to change it as well.” – Karthik

“I went to Prasanna Aghoram (video analyst) in 2013 to improve on my technique, I went to (Pravin) Amre sir a year ago to work on my back lift,” he says. “These are small things I’ve changed in my batting and the fruits of all those hard works are showing now. They all played their roles in my life and helped me become the batsman I am today.

“What I’ve realised is that for the next level, what’s most important is the mental make-up. How you approach your innings, how you plan it. I had this conversation with Virat (Kohli) the last time I was in the Indian team in the Asia Cup (2014).

“He opened up on a few things that I hadn’t been doing, which he does personally. That was great insight, actually. I remember I had a heartfelt conversation with him. He gave me a few tips on what he was doing in terms of preparation and all that. At that stage, I found it hard to relate to that. But over a period of time, having Abhishek Nayar by my side, I was able to put things more in context and those things have been of tremendous help of late.”

In every way, the season that went by – or is going on, if you include the Indian Premier League – has been a successful one for Karthik. At 31, it remains to be seen if it will lead to a second wind in his international career.

[Khota]

On 5/19/2017 at 3:54 AM, BeautifulGame said:

 

So where was this back up wicket keeper when the initial WK was picked ?

 

We didn't even pick back up wicket keepers for month long 2015 WC and suddenly Karthick is being picked as back up WK for a short tournament like CT?

 

D Karthick has solely forced his way into the team based on his batting form not as WK Batsman

That is true but do you think his wicket keeping is that inferior to Dhoni's?

[BeautifulGame]

That is true but do you think his wicket keeping is that inferior to Dhoni's?

 

Yes by a long way

[vvvslaxman]

10 hours ago, Khota said:

That is true but do you think his wicket keeping is that inferior to Dhoni's?

Yes. DK's problem is not the ability. But he makes a lot of simple errors. Often misses simple balls and takes blinders. You know what to expect from Dhoni. But you never know what you will get from DK.