Sachin Tendulkar v Virat Kohli - who is better ODI batsman?

[Austin 3:!6]

13 hours ago, putrevus said:

What are you talking about when did Sachin play on uncovered pitches.


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Maybe not be uncovered to the extent that Gavaskar played but Sachin made his debbut in 1989. There were rollers or overnight thick covers on pitches at that time. His debut test in Karachi was a minefield.

5 hours ago, rkt.india said:

how many games did Tendulkar played against peak Akram and Waqar?

Its not only about Wasim/Waqar. Sachin faced much high quality bowlers than Kohli or Bradman for that matter. I am not saying its Kohli's fault, but standard of bowling are all time low. There are no tearaway fast bowlers, no reverse swing, no mystery spinners (chuckers)...nothing. Unless you playing test match in Eng with red duke balls, its basically just see the line of the ball , swing the bat and you are guaranteed to score runs.

5 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

Excellent post but did you just put Shaun Pollock and even Jason Gillespie in the same bracket as Md.Zahid and Mervyn Dillon  

 

You just let Pakistanis win over you 

Zahid was express pace and touch quicker than Akhtar. His spells in Australia in 96 was superb. Injury ruined his promising career.

[rkt.india]

19 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Maybe not be uncovered to the extent that Gavaskar played but Sachin made his debbut in 1989. There were rollers or overnight thick covers on pitches at that time. His debut test in Karachi was a minefield.

Its not only about Wasim/Waqar. Sachin faced much high quality bowlers than Kohli or Bradman for that matter. I am not saying its Kohli's fault, but standard of bowling are all time low. There are no tearaway fast bowlers, no reverse swing, no mystery spinners (chuckers)...nothing. Unless you playing test match in Eng with red duke balls, its basically just see the line of the ball , swing the bat and you are guaranteed to score runs.

Zahid was express pace and touch quicker than Akhtar. His spells in Australia in 96 was superb. Injury ruined his promising career.

Zahid was quicker than a 20 year old Shoaib, was not quicker than a Shoaib at his peak pace. Zahid was 140-145K bowler in 96.

[putrevus]

People are reaching for straws in futile effort to prove Sachin was somehow better than Kohli.

The fact remains as a batsman Sachin never reached 900 ratings in either tests or Odis.

Sachin did not play much against two Ws or two monsters from West Indies in their peak.I will take in form Kohli over in form Sachin anytime.

Sachin sure had better World cups but I think we are yet to see the best of Kohli there.

We have seen best of Kohli in T20 world cups and we will see best of Kohli in World Cup too.


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[Jimmy Cliff]

29 minutes ago, putrevus said:

People are reaching for straws in futile effort to prove Sachin was somehow better than Kohli.

The fact remains as a batsman Sachin never reached 900 ratings in either tests or Odis.

Sachin did not play much against two Ws or two monsters from West Indies in their peak.I will take in form Kohli over in form Sachin anytime.

Sachin sure had better World cups but I think we are yet to see the best of Kohli there.

We have seen best of Kohli in T20 world cups and we will see best of Kohli in World Cup too.


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You are living in a lala land if you think the caliber of bowling that Kohli has faced is anywhere near to the bowling during Sachin's era. As I showed a few days back, Tendulkar has at least 200+ ODI innings against undisputed ODI ATG bowlers. Kohli doesn't even have 50. 

 

 

[mishra]

45 minutes ago, putrevus said:

People are reaching for straws in futile effort to prove Sachin was somehow better than Kohli.

The fact remains as a batsman Sachin never reached 900 ratings in either tests or Odis.

Sachin did not play much against two Ws or two monsters from West Indies in their peak.I will take in form Kohli over in form Sachin anytime.

Sachin sure had better World cups but I think we are yet to see the best of Kohli there.

We have seen best of Kohli in T20 world cups and we will see best of Kohli in World Cup too.


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Just to let you know the feel of dominance of bowlers, In 1996 wc, when India were just less then 200 in 40th over, The max score extrapolated by commentators 245-250. Why, Because Waqar and few other bowlers had 3+ overs.

That is the reason, most of India remembers Jadeja. Cos he scored 20+ runs off Waqar. No one ever scores 20+ runs of Waqar.

Now a days, there are upteen times people score 20+ off a bowler. No one gives a damn about 20+. Comparing these 20+ to that off 1996 Waqar is nothing more than joke

Edited October 30, 2018 by mishra

[Global.Baba]

2 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Maybe not be uncovered to the extent that Gavaskar played but Sachin made his debbut in 1989. There were rollers or overnight thick covers on pitches at that time. His debut test in Karachi was a minefield.

Its not only about Wasim/Waqar. Sachin faced much high quality bowlers than Kohli or Bradman for that matter. I am not saying its Kohli's fault, but standard of bowling are all time low. There are no tearaway fast bowlers, no reverse swing, no mystery spinners (chuckers)...nothing. Unless you playing test match in Eng with red duke balls, its basically just see the line of the ball , swing the bat and you are guaranteed to score runs.

Zahid was express pace and touch quicker than Akhtar. His spells in Australia in 96 was superb. Injury ruined his promising career.

I know who he is. Who gives a fk. He is not fit to tie Pollock’s or Gillespie’s  shoe laces. You spend too much time on Pak forum to start rating such players. Apparently Bharat Arun was the fastest bowler in India in the Kapil Dev era. Should we include him in the same breath as say Zaheer Khan?

Edited October 30, 2018 by Global.Baba

[putrevus]

8 minutes ago, mishra said:

Just to let you know the feel of dominance of bowlers, In 1996 wc, when India were just less then 200 in 40th over, The max score extrapolated by commentators 245-250. Why, Because Waqar and few other bowlers had 3+ overs.

That is the reason, most of India remembers Jadeja. Cos he scored 20+ runs off Waqar. No one ever scores 20+ runs of Waqar.

Now a days, there are upteen times people score 20+ off a bowler. No one gives a damn about 20+. Comparing these 20+ to that off 1996 Waqar is nothing more than joke

It was not dominance of bowlers that was the reason why India was 200 in 40th , it was ineptness of batsmen. The same World Cup  we saw SL change how the game was to be played in odis.

Shastri was scoring 50 of 100 plus balls in 1985 WCC .In the same WCC Kapil dev scored 50 of 30 balls.

England are breaching 450 plus not becuase pitches are flat or bowling is bad, it is the change in attitude and having players who aboe to launch at bowling from start.

 

Sachin is nowhere near Kohli as an odi player.

[velu]

3 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

I know who he is. Who gives a fk. He is not fit to tie Pollock’s shoe laces. You spend too much time on Pak forum to start rating such players. Apparently Bharat Arun was the fastest bowler in India in the Kapil Dev era. Should we include him in the same breath as say Zaheer Khan?

i checked who is bharat arun .. he is from vijayawada  

[putrevus]

26 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

You are living in a lala land if you think the caliber of bowling that Kohli has faced is anywhere near to the bowling during Sachin's era. As I showed a few days back, Tendulkar has at least 200+ ODI innings against undisputed ODI ATG bowlers. Kohli doesn't even have 50. 

 

 

I am living in reality and I am not among those who have hard time letting go this notion that Sachin somehow played better bowlers or better teams.

 

Sachin in anyway is not better than Kohli.

[Global.Baba]

3 minutes ago, velu said:

i checked who is bharat arun .. he is from vijayawada  

Why so much effort? He is our current bowling coach

[Jimmy Cliff]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I am living in reality and I am not among those who have hard time letting go this notion that Sachin somehow played better bowlers or better teams.

 

Sachin in anyway is not better than Kohli.

Yeah right. You live in a reality where Rayudu averages 50 whereas Sachin played 200+ innings against Wasim/Waqar/Saqlain/McGrath/Warne/Ambrose/Murali/Donald/Pollock/Hadlee/Bond in a video game.

[velu]

17 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Yeah right. You live in a reality where Rayudu averages 50 whereas Sachin played 200+ innings against Wasim/Waqar/Saqlain/McGrath/Warne/Ambrose/Murali/Donald/Pollock/Hadlee/Bond in a video game.

 

found your achilles heel  

[velu]

20 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Why so much effort? He is our current bowling coach

 

you said that he was the fastest in his era .. got bit mixed up 

[rkt.india]

38 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Yeah right. You live in a reality where Rayudu averages 50 whereas Sachin played 200+ innings against Wasim/Waqar/Saqlain/McGrath/Warne/Ambrose/Murali/Donald/Pollock/Hadlee/Bond in a video game.

so why cant Rayudu averages 50?  he was supposed to be next Tendulkar at the age of 17.   

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

. , but standard of bowling are all time low. There are no tearaway fast bowlers, no reverse swing, no mystery spinners (chuckers)...nothing. Unless you playing test match in Eng with red duke balls, its basically just see the line of the ball , swing the bat and you are guaranteed to score runs.

 

Starc, Johnson and Gabriel are bowling / have bowled express in the 2010s.

 

Shami, Umesh, Starc  ...  all top reverse swing bowlers from 2016 to 2018.

 

In tests

 

.. Steyn, Morkel, Philander in  SA  2012 to 2016.

.. Ashwin, Jadeja, Shami, Kuldeep in Asia 2017 and 2018.

.. Rabada, Philander, Morkel, Ngidi  in  SA  2018.

.. Anderson, Broad, Woakes in England 2014 to 2018.

.  Starc, Hazlewoid, Cummins in Australia 2017 and 2018.

.. Boult, Southee, Wagner  in NZ  2014 to 2018.

.. Johnson, Harris in Australia early 2010s.

 

All top quality and tough attacks against whom scoring runs have not been easy.

.

Edited October 30, 2018 by express bowling

[Trichromatic]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

  

Starc, Johnson and Gabriel are bowling / have bowled express in the 2010s.

 

 Shami, Umesh, Starc  ...  all top reverse swing bowlers from 2016 to 2018.

 

 

Their number of 150+ deliveries in ODI career is probably less than what bowlers bowled in 2003 WC alone.

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Yeah right. You live in a reality where Rayudu averages 50 whereas Sachin played 200+ innings against Wasim/Waqar/Saqlain/McGrath/Warne/Ambrose/Murali/Donald/Pollock/Hadlee/Bond in a video game.

I am right , Sachin is not better odi player than Kohli.  Yeah right we know how great Sachin was it took him 4 trips to score 100 in Australia against Australia.

 

Rayudu avg 50 plus in small sample size does not prove anything.

[express bowling]

19 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Their number of 150+ deliveries in ODI career is probably less than what bowlers bowled in 2003 WC alone.

 

Even Nehra was bowling 149 k in WC 2003.   

[Jimmy Cliff]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I am right , Sachin is not better odi player than Kohli.  Yeah right we know how great Sachin was it took him 4 trips to score 100 in Australia against Australia.

 

Rayudu avg 50 plus in small sample size does not prove anything.

You can rate Kohli or Sharma or Dhawan as better than Sachin for all I care. That is a matter of opinion. Tendulkar playing far more innings against ATG ODI bowlers is a matter of fact. Wake me up when when Kohli plays a comparable number of games against ATG bowlers in ODIs. And replace Rayudu with Babar Azam if Rayudu's sample size is too small. The point still stands. 

[mishra]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

It was not dominance of bowlers that was the reason why India was 200 in 40th , it was ineptness of batsmen. The same World Cup  we saw SL change how the game was to be played in odis.

Shastri was scoring 50 of 100 plus balls in 1985 WCC .In the same WCC Kapil dev scored 50 of 30 balls.

England are breaching 450 plus not becuase pitches are flat or bowling is bad, it is the change in attitude and having players who aboe to launch at bowling from start.

 

Sachin is nowhere near Kohli as an odi player.

Sri Lanka just played slashing game during field restriction. Kalu and Jayasurya or rest didnt score any considerable runs after 15th over.

I think there was a Kiwi batsman called Mark Greatbatch. He tried it in 1992 too. Difference kiwi and Lankans was, Lankans were doing it from both the ends with no fear or pressure as they had SL the legends of batting after them (Atapattu, DSilva,Ranatunga)