Quinton de Kock ruled out of the remaining ODIs and T20I series against India due to a wrist injury

[New guy]

4 hours ago, CoverDrive said:

Not sure this is bad for SA considering his terrible form. New guy has opportunity to prove himself so will be motivated. 

Dunno, i think i have proved myself many times

[sandeep]

9 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Miles ahead in T20 cricket I agree .

 

Ahead in ODI cricket but not by as much as a few chamchas would like us to believe. Granted statistically Kohli>>Smith in ODIs but the latter isn't a Laxman type ODI player. Avg 42, SR 86+ may not sound that impressive but when you see how clutch he was when it mattered the most you will gain more respect for him. As a cricket fan the lasting image for me will be Smith getting a sparkling 100 in a WC SF against group toppers and defending champs who had taken all 60 wickets in the group stages while the so called master chaser who had spent 4 months in Aus and was in great form heading into the WC played the worst innings in the history of WC, a 13 ball 1  sucking out all the momentum given by our openers . 

This post reeks of bias against Kohli.  I'm not much of a Virat fan, but your claim that Smith is even comparable to Kohli in ODIs, is laughable.  Both Smith and Kohli are tasked with the same role in ODIs for their teams - to be the solid anchor that controls the innings.  And Virat delivers in that role with more consistency and quantity of runs, against a variety of conditions and bowlers.   

 

 

[mancalledsting]

30 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Smith got similar pitches like Kohli in his previous SA, NZ, Eng and Ind test tours and comprehensively outperformed the Indian in every single series. There is simply no comparison in test cricket between the 2. Desperate Pakistani fans used to bring Inzi in every Sachin discussion, I see a similar trait in Kohli bhakts. Kohli may eventually surpass Smith after 5 years but now's not the time to throw hissy fits. 

Ok so Kohli's last round of South Africa before this he also performed well. So that makes his performance neutral in relation to Steve smith's. I watched Steve smith's last tour to England, the wickets were nowhere as bowler friendly as Joburg and Cape Town (as these were bowler friendly to an all time level). Kohli also did well in NZ last (one and only tour) time so sounds like a whole load of BS to me. Either you deliberately do it, or you have trouble differentiating between flat and spicy wickets. Just because a game was played in England, doesn't mean the wicket is bowler friendly. Seems to be the underlying assumption in all your arguments. Not sure if you have inferiority complex against goras/regionalist bias against Kohli/inability to analyse the situation but you need to remove your head from Steve smiths backside quick time. 

 

Kohli's 2 knocks in Joburg put him ahead of any current test batsmen in relation to facing quick bowling. For another current test batsmen to prove that, he needs to perform against an attack of similar quality on a similarly spicy wicket. Once again shame on you for trying to equate a wicket that was nearly called off for being dangerous (Joburg) to relatively docile wickets in England.

 

bring evidence of the above highlighted in bold in defence of Steve smith and then maybe you'll have a point 

Edited February 5, 2018 by mancalledsting

[maniac]

1 minute ago, mancalledsting said:

Ok so Kohli's last round of South Africa before this he also performed well. So that makes his performance neutral in relation to Steve smith's. I watched Steve smith's last tour to England, the wickets were nowhere as bowler friendly as Joburg and Cape Town (they were bowler for sky to an all time level). Kohli also did well in NZ last (one and only tour) time so sounds like a whole load of BS to me. Either you deliberately do it, or you have trouble differentiating between flat and spicy wickets. Just because a game was played in England, doesn't mean the wicket is bowler friendly. Seems to be the underlying assumption in all your arguments. Not sure if you have inferiority complex against goras/regionalist bias against Kohli/inability to analyse the situation but you need to remove your head from Steve smiths backside quick time. 

 

Kohli's 2 knocks in Joburg put him ahead of any current test batsmen in relation to facing quick bowling. For another current test batsmen to prove that, he needs to perform against an attack of similar quality on a similarly spicy wicket. Once again shame on you for trying to equate a wicket that was nearly called off for being dangerous (Joburg) to relatively docile wickets in England.

 

bring evidence of the above highlighted in bold in defence of Steve smith and then maybe you'll have a point 

To be fair Smith performed against Jadeja and Ashwin in India that can be as challenging as playing 3-4 quality quicks on green tracks.

 

As I said Smith is marginally ahead of Kohli in tests but Kohli is ahead of Smith comfortably in LOIs 

[Gollum]

13 minutes ago, sandeep said:

This post reeks of bias against Kohli.  I'm not much of a Virat fan, but your claim that Smith is even comparable to Kohli in ODIs, is laughable.  Both Smith and Kohli are tasked with the same role in ODIs for their teams - to be the solid anchor that controls the innings.  And Virat delivers in that role with more consistency and quantity of runs, against a variety of conditions and bowlers.   

 

 

They aren't comparable but the gap isn't as big as a few would like to believe. I don't see stats as be all end all, bilaterals have lost relevance and ICC tourneys are the only things (or main things whichever way you see) that matter. I am not sure whether Kohli is better than Dhawan in ICC tourneys, so will say Kohli>Dhawan and not Kohli>>>Dhawan in ODI. Same with the Smith-Kohli comparison but the thing in favor of Smith is that apart from his beastly record in ICC tourneys (avg 60, SR 90) he delivered the greatest performance in the KO stage in the history of the game, even better than Aravinda De Silva's 1996 run, Dhawan fell short slightly there. Kohli unfortunately has an elephant sized hole in that department, if he can correct that next year I won't just rate him much higher than Smith but will also put him equal to Viv Richards as the joint GOAT in ODI cricket. 

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/267192.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=default;template=results;trophy=12;trophy=44;type=batting

Edited February 5, 2018 by Gollum

[mancalledsting]

Just now, maniac said:

To be fair Smith performed against Jadeja and Ashwin in India that can be as challenging as playing 3-4 quality quicks on green tracks.

 

As I said Smith is marginally ahead of Kohli in tests but Kohli is ahead of Smith comfortably in LOIs 

Kohli is not an ATG, vs spin, no problems accepting that. Chepu is best player of spin in current lineup. 

[Rasgulla]

Saffers B has become Saffers C team now.. Time to arrange a series with Lanka  They can give better fight ay this point. 

[Vilander]

if SA is getting ravaged by Indian pace attack like this, wonder whats going to happen when the Aussies arrive there. Man its going to be a brutal couple of months for SA cricket fans to watch.

[Vilander]

Smith bested Ashwin/Jadeja on raging turners and comprehensively outscored freaking Kohli in India. I think he is ahead of Kohli, but Kohli is upping his game big time.

[Gollum]

8 minutes ago, mancalledsting said:

Ok so Kohli's last round of South Africa before this he also performed well. So that makes his performance neutral in relation to Steve smith's. I watched Steve smith's last tour to England, the wickets were nowhere as bowler friendly as Joburg and Cape Town (as these were bowler friendly to an all time level). Kohli also did well in NZ last (one and only tour) time so sounds like a whole load of BS to me. Either you deliberately do it, or you have trouble differentiating between flat and spicy wickets. Just because a game was played in England, doesn't mean the wicket is bowler friendly. Seems to be the underlying assumption in all your arguments. Not sure if you have inferiority complex against goras/regionalist bias against Kohli/inability to analyse the situation but you need to remove your head from Steve smiths backside quick time. 

 

Kohli's 2 knocks in Joburg put him ahead of any current test batsmen in relation to facing quick bowling. For another current test batsmen to prove that, he needs to perform against an attack of similar quality on a similarly spicy wicket. Once again shame on you for trying to equate a wicket that was nearly called off for being dangerous (Joburg) to relatively docile wickets in England.

 

bring evidence of the above highlighted in bold in defence of Steve smith and then maybe you'll have a point 

Firstly learn to talk in a civil manner, if you can't do that don't bother tagging me or quoting my posts. The only reason I even opened this thread is because you tagged me. I try not to make personal attacks, in case I have a problem with a poster I simply block that person rather than ruining my mood. 

 

The only thing I can infer from your posts is that you have comprehension issues. Read my post again:

39 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Smith got similar pitches like Kohli in his previous SA, NZ, Eng and Ind test tours and comprehensively outperformed the Indian in every single series. There is simply no comparison in test cricket between the 2. Desperate Pakistani fans used to bring Inzi in every Sachin discussion, I see a similar trait in Kohli bhakts. Kohli may eventually surpass Smith after 5 years but now's not the time to throw hissy fits. 

SA

Smith in 2014 vs Kohli 2013. How can we talk about Kohli's tour this time when Smith hasn't even landed in SA for his assignment. For all that we know he may get greentops because Aus is pants against lateral movement and SA may hesitate to go for pattas against the best team on pattas in the planet. 

 

2014 Smith got similar pitches to what Kohli got in 2013. Smith scored 270 runs (3 tests) at an average of 67+. Kohli scored 272 in 2 tests @ 67+. I will call it a tie.

 

Eng

 

Smith in 2015 got similar pitches like Kohli in 2014. Both got 2 flattish pitches (Trent Bridge and Southampton were pattas in 2014) but very difficult to say because we were * in the last 2 tests, Oval test wicket was flat in hindsight but we had lost the will to fight by then.  

 

Smith won 2 matches for his team with 500+ runs with a 100 and a 200. I don't want to mention Kohli's record because that is common knowledge.

 

Decisive victory for Smith. 

 

Ind

 

2017 India tour, one guy got 46 runs, the other guy 499 runs with 3 100s, I mean is there even a point to debate, let me save you the embarrassment. Please don't tell me Kohli's last series in India was against Lanka and hence we need to put those stats in front of Smith's 2017 series numbers....I hope even the most die hard Kohli fan doesn't apply this logic.......

 

Decisive victory for Smith.

 

NZ

 

2015 Smith vs 2014 Kohli...pitches comparable

Smith scored 262 at an average of 130 odd while Kohli scored 210 odd at an average of 70. I'll have to give the edge to Smith even if the margin isn't as wide as in Ind or Eng.

 

So to summarize Smith obliterated Kohli in Eng and Ind, edged him out in NZ and both comparable in SA. After March we can see whether the status quo will remain in SA or whether Kohli will be ahead. I am not a fool who rates pattas equivalent to greentops/rank turners, so will take those things into consideration when Aus tour SA. 

 

"Smith got similar pitches like Kohli in his previous SA, NZ, Eng and Ind test tours and comprehensively outperformed the Indian in every single series."  

 

Which part did I get wrong? May be I shouldn't have written 'every single series' because Smith wasn't better in SA but I hadn't checked the stats very closely. Moreover I only started tracking Smith closely after our 2014 tour downunder, my recollection about his 2014 exploits was a bit hazy. 

[BeautifulGame]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Smith got similar pitches like Kohli in his previous SA, NZ, Eng and Ind test tours and comprehensively outperformed the Indian in every single series. There is simply no comparison in test cricket between the 2. Desperate Pakistani fans used to bring Inzi in every Sachin discussion, I see a similar trait in Kohli bhakts. Kohli may eventually surpass Smith after 5 years but now's not the time to throw hissy fits. 

Actually Smith struggled in the green wickets in England.But scored on a flat road in the final test (which was a a dead rubber ) and boasted his stats.We can not pick on every player past or present.

 

I was just as critical of Kohli before the SA series.But don't know how anyone can be critical of his batting after the series he had .He is getting pretty close to Smith as a test batsman .Just need to correct his anomaly in England this summer.

[coffee_rules]

Good to see him struggle for form, the last time around he had picked 100s against India like stealing chocolate from a kid!

[Gollum]

13 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

Actually Smith struggled in the green wickets in England.But scored on a flat road in the final test (which was a a dead rubber ) and boasted his stats.We can not pick on every player past or present.

 

I was just as critical of Kohli before the SA series.But don't know how anyone can be critical of his batting after the series he had .He is getting pretty close to Smith as a test batsman .Just need to correct his anomaly in England this summer.

Smith also scored a 200 when the series was alive. We got 2-3 flat tracks in Eng 2014, what stopped our batsmen from scoring like Smith?

 

No one is critical of his batting. On this forum I have called him GOAT T20 batsman and best-2nd best current ODI batsman who can be tied GOAT alongside Viv with a great 2019 WC. In tests I am not ready to call him the GOAT or better than Smith, is that harsh criticism or deliberate underplaying? I rate him among the top 3 current test batsmen but Smith has a healthy lead at the top. What do Kohli chamchas (not you, some other usual suspects) want from me: to declare him the GOAT test batsman and much much greater than Smith, SRT, Viv, Sobers, Lara, Bradman combined. Sorry I am not ready to call him that, kya bigad loge mera? 

Edited February 5, 2018 by Gollum

[BeautifulGame]

37 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Smith also scored a 200 when the series was alive. We got 2-3 flat tracks in Eng 2014, what stopped our batsmen from scoring like Smith?

In his 3rd tour of England.As I said Kohli has the chance to correct that in his second tour.

 

Also it's don't think it's   true that Smith scored in similar pitches to what Kohli did in SA .Smith scored on flat wickets and got out cheap in swing conditions.Very unlike Kohli in this series who fought out the conditions.

 

Kohli completely stood out in one of the toughest pitches in recent times.Only centurion in the entire series amount both team to sum it.

37 minutes ago, Gollum said:

No one is critical of his batting. On this forum I have called him GOAT T20 batsman and best-2nd best current ODI batsman who can be tied GOAT alongside Viv with a great 2019 WC. 

Fair enough.

37 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Intests I am not ready to call him the GOAT or better than Smith, is that harsh criticism or deliberate underplaying? I rate him among the top 3 current test batsmen but Smith has a healthy lead at the top. What do Kohli chamchas (not you, some other usual suspects) want from me: to declare him the GOAT test batsman and much much greater than Smith, SRT, Viv, Sobers, Lara, Bradman combined. Sorry I am not ready to call him that, kya bigad loge mera? 

There is difference between not better than Smith and miles behind Smith.Maybe before this series , but Kohli has considerably closed the gap in tests.Thats all I am saying.

[mancalledsting]

52 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Firstly learn to talk in a civil manner, if you can't do that don't bother tagging me or quoting my posts. The only reason I even opened this thread is because you tagged me. I try not to make personal attacks, in case I have a problem with a poster I simply block that person rather than ruining my mood. 

 

The only thing I can infer from your posts is that you have comprehension issues. Read my post again:

SA

Smith in 2014 vs Kohli 2013. How can we talk about Kohli's tour this time when Smith hasn't even landed in SA for his assignment. For all that we know he may get greentops because Aus is pants against lateral movement and SA may hesitate to go for pattas against the best team on pattas in the planet. 

 

2014 Smith got similar pitches to what Kohli got in 2013. Smith scored 270 runs (3 tests) at an average of 67+. Kohli scored 272 in 2 tests @ 67+. I will call it a tie.

 

Eng

 

Smith in 2015 got similar pitches like Kohli in 2014. Both got 2 flattish pitches (Trent Bridge and Southampton were pattas in 2014) but very difficult to say because we were * in the last 2 tests, Oval test wicket was flat in hindsight but we had lost the will to fight by then.  

 

Smith won 2 matches for his team with 500+ runs with a 100 and a 200. I don't want to mention Kohli's record because that is common knowledge.

 

Decisive victory for Smith. 

 

Ind

 

2017 India tour, one guy got 46 runs, the other guy 499 runs with 3 100s, I mean is there even a point to debate, let me save you the embarrassment. Please don't tell me Kohli's last series in India was against Lanka and hence we need to put those stats in front of Smith's 2017 series numbers....I hope even the most die hard Kohli fan doesn't apply this logic.......

 

Decisive victory for Smith.

 

NZ

 

2015 Smith vs 2014 Kohli...pitches comparable

Smith scored 262 at an average of 130 odd while Kohli scored 210 odd at an average of 70. I'll have to give the edge to Smith even if the margin isn't as wide as in Ind or Eng.

 

So to summarize Smith obliterated Kohli in Eng and Ind, edged him out in NZ and both comparable in SA. After March we can see whether the status quo will remain in SA or whether Kohli will be ahead. I am not a fool who rates pattas equivalent to greentops/rank turners, so will take those things into consideration when Aus tour SA. 

 

"Smith got similar pitches like Kohli in his previous SA, NZ, Eng and Ind test tours and comprehensively outperformed the Indian in every single series."  

 

Which part did I get wrong? May be I shouldn't have written 'every single series' because Smith wasn't better in SA but I hadn't checked the stats very closely. Moreover I only started tracking Smith closely after our 2014 tour downunder, my recollection about his 2014 exploits was a bit hazy. 

beautiful. The more a person talks the more he reveals about himself. I think you need to back it up a little bit before assuming the moral high ground. I believe you are responisble for commencing hostilities in this thread with the following remark:

 

"Desperate Pakistani fans used to bring Inzi in every Sachin discussion, I see a similar trait in Kohli bhakts. Kohli may eventually surpass Smith after 5 years but now's not the time to throw hissy fits."

 

Just because someone replies and puts you in your place, doesn't give you cause to enter your menstrual cycle and start crying. It reminds me of South Africans asking for pace and bounce, getting it, losing and then throwing their toys out the pram and trying to run away. 

 

If you continue to post rubbish, I will continue to quote it and disprove it, it's kind of the whole point of a forum. Don't ever think a little rant by you will provide your posts amnesty from scrutiny. 

 

Anyway back to the discussion at hand, which part did you get wrong? Firstly I hope your intention is to receive an honest answer 

 

Ok so your quote: 

 

"Smith got similar pitches like Kohli in his previous SA, NZ, Eng and Ind test tours and comprehensively outperformed the Indian in every single series."

 

ok so far, so good, well remembered. But wait....what was your conclusion based on that evidence?

 

"There is simply no comparison in test cricket between the 2."

 

That's where you went over the top. Kohli has just scored two significant scores on a minefield where so called players who like pace and bounce were running away scared. This was the closest thing to the pace friendly wickets of the 1970s, so basically Kohli has showed that he would have even been a good batsmen in the bowler friendly era. No such evidence exists for Smith, unless someone can find it, I'm happy to be proved wrong. Search criteria: 'good bowling attack, quick bowler friendly conditions as evidenced by low scores of other players who are otherwise considered peers'. Kohli just raised the bar amongst the current generation of batsmen with those two innings alone. Don't come back with Steve Smith's great knocks on pattas to refute that claim. It's like saying Rohit is great ODI top order batsmen based on his great career stats as an opener and 256 vs Sri Lanka in cycle pure agarbathies series. Like Rohit, Smith has padded up his record by going big when the going was easy. Respectable definitely. The best, not automatically. 

 

Respect to you for honestly acknowledging your mistake; first you posted: 

 

'Smith got similar pitches like Kohli in his previous SA, NZ, Eng and Ind test tours and comprehensively outperformed the Indian in every single series.'

 

than you amended it to. 

 

'So to summarize Smith obliterated Kohli in Eng and Ind, edged him out in NZ and both comparable in SA.'

 

If you yourself acknowledge the mistake in your evidence, then its obvious I have merit in challenging your conclusions. 

 

'my recollection about his 2014 exploits was a bit hazy.'

 

Ok fine, I don't expect you to have wisden almanack in your head but you should be careful before making unequivocal boasts. And before making boastful comments like:

 

'The only thing I can infer from your posts is that you have comprehension issues.'

 

You should first make sure that you comprehend your own posts. 

 

 'How can we talk about Kohli's tour this time when Smith hasn't even landed in SA for his assignment.'

 

Is South Africa the only country in the world with bowler friendly wickets? What happened to the last 7 years of Steve Smith playing test cricket?

 

Then you said:

 

'For all that we know he may get greentops because Aus is pants against lateral movement and SA may hesitate to go for pattas against the best team on pattas in the planet.'

 

I believe I've already acknowledge this point when I said:

 

'if Steve Smith gets pattas, judge his performance accordingly, if he gets minefields then we'll think about a direct comparison.'

 

Maybe you comprehending this first point would have prevented all this back and forth. 

 

Also re: Steve Smith's contribution in England on last Ashes tour, he failed every time there was a bowler friendly wicket and flourished on flat ones. That's why I don't buy his BS hype and give comparison to Rohit in ODIs. Ok so Kohil got flat wickets in England too? so what is your point then? That Kohli can't play on flat wickets? If he struggled on flat wickets its more likely attributable to him being out of form rather than an ability issue so no need to extrapolate and draw definitive conclusion based on such. 

[ThePhenomenal1]

7 hours ago, Kohlifan said:

ohh noo... Now if we win the series they will say it was India v/s SA B Team .

True but thats a sign of their cowardice. Same south africa who cried about the 3rd test pitch and nearly got away.

 

india are smashing them atm.

[ThePhenomenal1]

6 hours ago, WC2011INDIA said:

I think the Indian WAGs Vs SA WAGs playing cricket in tight clothes would be epic.

De kock would definitely be out then.

[Sean Bradley]

Proteas are running out of Pro, Tea's for taking, time to gulp them cocky @ss Mofos.

[adi B]

Wow saf batsmen are falling like ninepins to injuries .iirc  saf beat India in 2015 odis with our main bowlers out injured -ashwin,shami 

[BeautifulGame]

17 minutes ago, adi B said:

Wow saf batsmen are falling like ninepins to injuries .iirc  saf beat India in 2015 odis with our main bowlers out injured -ashwin,shami 

Told you so, we will be smashing SA in ODIs.Our bowling is just too good .