China continues state abuse of muslims in xinjiang

[Moochad]

13 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

Threats to China are

1) possibly getting stuck in the middle income trap 

2a) demographic collapse due to 1-child policy: some projections have their population falling all the way to the 500 million range! 

2b) the collapsing population is also aging, so the possible 500 million will be disproportionately old people 

 

None of those are existential threats. 

 

The West has risks of:

1) Aging population + overburdened welfare systems 

2)  Stagnant economies

3) Renewed economic protectionism hurting Europe

4) Europe becoming Eurabia and the US becoming North Brazil 

 

#4 is an existential threat to the West.

 

I much rather be China going forward.

EU is already under pressure to break up. UK was surely just the first to leave.

[Tibarn]

7 minutes ago, Moochad said:

EU is already under pressure to break up. Londonistan was surely just the first to leave.

Fixed 

 

On topic 

The news in the OP is just what China lets out. Since they gave such tight restrictions on the press, what actually happens there can be orders of magnitude more extreme than what is reported.

[DHONI_FANN]

Better now than its too late 

[riya]

Pakistanis are like ''Yawn wake me up when a similar incident happens in India...now let me save my tears for those kashmiris''

[Gollum]

Forget Pakistanis what happened to Indian Muslims? They bring the nation to a halt if something happens in Myanmar or Palestine, 1000s of crores of public property are routinely destroyed. Where is their voice now? 

[Mariyam]

4 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Forget Pakistanis what happened to Indian Muslims? They bring the nation to a halt if something happens in Myanmar or Palestine, 1000s of crores of public property are routinely destroyed. Where is their voice now? 

Even if I assume your above statements to be true, I can't get what are you hinting at? That you want Muslims in India to damage property worth 1000s of crores over what happens in Xinjiang?

 

Would that make Indian Muslims more respectable in your eyes?

[Mariyam]

3 hours ago, kira said:

 

Hardly the case. I find him a generally well informed and articulate poster. And I read all of his posts (even though I disagree with most of them, ftr) except those on cricket.

 

Edited May 17, 2018 by velu
abuse .. removed the quote

[kira]

Just now, Mariyam said:

Hardly the case. I find him a generally well informed and articulate poster. And I read all of his posts (even though I disagree with most of them, ftr) except those on cricket.

 

Wtf, I was trolling him through you, if you were not going to join me  then you should have ignored the post, you are on my hit list now  

[Ranvir]

17 hours ago, Gollum said:

No matter how much China develops in the future it will never be a match for the free western world that actually places human rights (at least of its own people) as an ideal to aspire to. I respect China's rise but thank the Indian founding fathers for going about things in our unique way even if it is time consuming and chaotic.

When China completely eradicated poverty and all of the citizens have a good quality of life then I’m sure the people will get more freedom.

 

Democracy has been a disaster for India, illiterate people cannot be trusted to vote. Furthermore India has a pretty shoddy human rights record itself.

[Gollum]

12 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Even if I assume your above statements to be true, I can't get what are you hinting at? That you want Muslims in India to damage property worth 1000s of crores over what happens in Xinjiang?

 

Would that make Indian Muslims more respectable in your eyes?

I don't want anyone to damage public property, especially over something happening in a 3rd country. I am merely wondering why there are large scale protests by Muslims over happenings in other countries except China. We had violence in Kolkata (near Maidan)  3 years back when the 1971 war crime trials were going on in neighboring Bangladesh. Same with happenings in USA, Palestine, Denmark, France, Myanmar etc.....though not always resulting in violence. I don't think ordinary Muslims will spontaneously assemble in some public place and protest, they have their daily jobs to do. These protests are organized by certain NGOs, social activists, political groups, religious academies etc who take care of the logistics part. Sheeple just assemble there, shout slogans/hold banners under the sun for 6 hours and sometimes because of mob dynamics/external spark it results in violence. I don't blame the sheeple because when you are in a mob, there is always the risk of something going bad. Even in heavy traffic or crowded market place a small incident can trigger something big. I will always blame the puppeteers in case of irrational mob frenzy.

 

My post was to understand how come China has escaped the wrath of Indian Muslims? There are large scale human rights violations in Xinjiang province, besides there is a China angle in Rohingya crisis. China has commercial interests in the Rakhine region because of oil/gas fields. Even there if you notice the PRC govt supported Myanmar Army yet didn't take a single refugee...India has over 40,000, neighboring China probably nil. My assertion is that Indian communists are pulling the strings to downplay China's anti Muslim excesses. I presume Commies and Islamic groups get along well in India and it is a simple case of 'you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours'. Leftist elements in various forms are at the forefront of most of the protests of Indian Muslims, be it against Israel or Trump or Myanmar or a 100 other instances including local issues (eg cow lynching). Yet the parties have an understanding that no matter what China should never be shamed. Indian commies are very loyal to the Chinese masters and will do anything to whitewash the communist regime's crimes. Since they have attained a firm foothold in Indian institutions and public space these last 70 years they are able to influence public opinion very shrewdly to their benefit. 

[velu]

china is pretty much against all the religion i guess..

tibetians are fellow buddists but they get the same treatment as muslims

[sergio04]

Carry on good work, china.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[Stradlater]

23 hours ago, velu said:

china is pretty much against all the religion i guess..

tibetians are fellow buddists but they get the same treatment as muslims

Thats the most common excuse used by Pakistanis when shown the mirror about their dearest friend China's continuous persecution of it's native muslim population.

As if that makes it any better.

[Franco Vazquez]

Most of the communist nations have always been militantly atheist and against religion. Lenin, Stalin, Zedong, Pol Pot etc all of them were communists and mass murderers of religious people

[gattaca]

On 5/17/2018 at 11:54 AM, velu said:

china is pretty much against all the religion i guess..

tibetians are fellow buddists but they get the same treatment as muslims

Lol no they have churches in China. Just underground the government knows it but they don’t do much. 

[Mariyam]

@Gollum

 

I don't think Communists and Islamists get along well. At best they maybe allies of convenience, but it is an uneasy alliance.

Those Muslims, who are left leaning have almost without fail renounced Islam and become atheists. And such people are seen as apostates by the Islamists. A person of Kaifi Azmi's stature had a difficult time getting burial space for his father! 

 

Also, I do not think Indian communists have any reason to be very loyal to China. If anything, they would be very loyal to communism.

 

 

 

 

[Gollum]

2 hours ago, Mariyam said:

@Gollum

 

I don't think Communists and Islamists get along well. At best they maybe allies of convenience, but it is an uneasy alliance.

Those Muslims, who are left leaning have almost without fail renounced Islam and become atheists. And such people are seen as apostates by the Islamists. A person of Kaifi Azmi's stature had a difficult time getting burial space for his father! 

 

Also, I do not think Indian communists have any reason to be very loyal to China. If anything, they would be very loyal to communism.

 

 

 

 

In India they are allies presently, and will continue to remain so as long as they have a common enemy/threat/rival. In Islamic states, Muslim majority countries and Communist states they are enemies eg Pakistan, Indonesia, China, erstwhile USSR but everywhere else they tend to stick together against what they believe are imperialist/capitalist/USA-backed/fascist/majoritarian forces.

 

I think those leftist Muslims who have renounced Islam are a very very small minority. Most of the left leaning Muslims I see are devout followers of their faith. Kaifi Azmi may be an outlier, from what I have seen only Hindu communists (not all but significant %) somewhat get detached from the roots of their religion. That is why you have Indian communists attacking Hindu religion/Gods quite vociferously (remember Maa Durga prostitute posters in JNU) while in case of Islam they are very measured/non-existent. In fact it was under Left Front Government that Taslima had to flee Kolkata HERE. It was CPM government that gave a ticket to Abdul Nazer Madani's choice of candidate in Kerala (HERE and HERE). Naxalites never talk against Islamic fundamentalism, in fact I can point out links of SIMI/HUJI militants fighting for Naxals 10-15 years ago. 

 

Indian communists have always been very loyal to China. Having lived in Bengal my entire childhood I think I have heard and seen enough about them. A huge chunk of Indian communists sided with China in the 1962 war. When the war was on, many Communist party members had donation drives for Chinese army across Calcutta, it became such a big menace that the then CM (Congress) Prafulla Chandra Sen had to order Bengal police to forcefully enter Jadavpur and arrest all student activists sympathetic to the enemy...scores died (govt suppressed the bloodshed news in connivance with the media). Most of the top brass commies blamed India for the war, there were some exceptions however. VS Achuthanandan who was a popular politburo member that time was sacked by the party for suggesting that they should organize blood donation camps for Indian soldiers HERE. The reason cited in the committee report was that such a gesture was pro India but anti party line !!!! Even Mani Shankar Aiyer (a communist that time) collected money for China in Cambridge University. Local Bengali communist leaders trained tribals in North Bengal with arms in case China needed their help...5 years later in the same place Charu Majumdar backed Naxalbari incident happened. I mean if Communists can support an enemy nation at times of war is anything beyond them? Isn't it the worst form of treason? Even Maoist insurgency movement has the blessings of China, who do you think provides the arms? We had 3 Indo-Pak wars and 1 conflict, yet no Indian Muslim group/party supported Pakistan....such a thing is simply unthinkable. I can provide links backing all my claims but am feeling sleepy atm, so pardon me...you can google if you are interested.

 

Any criticism of China is scoffed at by Commies and the PRC govt is beyond reproach. Look at any Indian Communist politician/ideologue/academician today and try to find out if they have ever criticized China over human rights excesses, you can dig up all you want and I assure you no such link will be found. I read 'The Hindu' and 'Frontline', both left leaning and featuring writers/editors/contributors who are former members of CPM/CPI related groups. In the last 2 years I am yet to come across a single article negative against China and not a day goes by without them taking digs at China's enemies, real or perceived. They discuss every damn issue under the sun but China-Rohingya exodus link in Rakhine State or Chinese excesses in Xinjiang...sadly these remain untouched. 

Edited May 19, 2018 by Gollum

[Muloghonto]

2 hours ago, Gollum said:

In India they are allies presently, and will continue to remain so as long as they have a common enemy/threat/rival. In Islamic states, Muslim majority countries and Communist states they are enemies eg Pakistan, Indonesia, China, erstwhile USSR but everywhere else they tend to stick together against what they believe are imperialist/capitalist/USA-backed/fascist/majoritarian forces.

 

I think those leftist Muslims who have renounced Islam are a very very small minority. Most of the left leaning Muslims I see are devout followers of their faith. Kaifi Azmi may be an outlier, from what I have seen only Hindu communists (not all but significant %) somewhat get detached from the roots of their religion. That is why you have Indian communists attacking Hindu religion/Gods quite vociferously (remember Maa Durga prostitute posters in JNU) while in case of Islam they are very measured/non-existent. In fact it was under Left Front Government that Taslima had to flee Kolkata HERE. It was CPM government that gave a ticket to Abdul Nazer Madani's choice of candidate in Kerala (HERE and HERE). Naxalites never talk against Islamic fundamentalism, in fact I can point out links of SIMI/HUJI militants fighting for Naxals 10-15 years ago. 

 

Indian communists have always been very loyal to China. Having lived in Bengal my entire childhood I think I have heard and seen enough about them. A huge chunk of Indian communists sided with China in the 1962 war. When the war was on, many Communist party members had donation drives for Chinese army across Calcutta, it became such a big menace that the then CM (Congress) Prafulla Chandra Sen had to order Bengal police to forcefully enter Jadavpur and arrest all student activists sympathetic to the enemy...scores died (govt suppressed the bloodshed news in connivance with the media). Most of the top brass commies blamed India for the war, there were some exceptions however. VS Achuthanandan who was a popular politburo member that time was sacked by the party for suggesting that they should organize blood donation camps for Indian soldiers HERE. The reason cited in the committee report was that such a gesture was pro India but anti party line !!!! Even Mani Shankar Aiyer (a communist that time) collected money for China in Cambridge University. Local Bengali communist leaders trained tribals in North Bengal with arms in case China needed their help...5 years later in the same place Charu Majumdar backed Naxalbari incident happened. I mean if Communists can support an enemy nation at times of war is anything beyond them? Isn't it the worst form of treason? Even Maoist insurgency movement has the blessings of China, who do you think provides the arms? We had 3 Indo-Pak wars and 1 conflict, yet no Indian Muslim group/party supported Pakistan....such a thing is simply unthinkable. I can provide links backing all my claims but am feeling sleepy atm, so pardon me...you can google if you are interested.

 

Any criticism of China is scoffed at by Commies and the PRC govt is beyond reproach. Look at any Indian Communist politician/ideologue/academician today and try to find out if they have ever criticized China over human rights excesses, you can dig up all you want and I assure you no such link will be found. I read 'The Hindu' and 'Frontline', both left leaning and featuring writers/editors/contributors who are former members of CPM/CPI related groups. In the last 2 years I am yet to come across a single article negative against China and not a day goes by without them taking digs at China's enemies, real or perceived. They discuss every damn issue under the sun but China-Rohingya exodus link in Rakhine State or Chinese excesses in Xinjiang...sadly these remain untouched. 

The loyalty of the CPM(I) or CPI to The CPC is nothing extraordinary.

Communist manifesto basically states that the 'end goal' is for a one world communist government and all commies are 'comrades' of each other.

So there is always a central heirarchy of world-wide communists. This only started to decline when Stalin died. The reason for USSR-China split was not geo-politics or such, but simple dispute of communist heirarchy.  Mao was younger than Stalin but older than Khruschev and in the head of his government ( China) for less time than Stalin (of USSR) but way longer than Khruschev (USSR). 

So when Stalin died, Mao expected that he (and by extension, China) would inherit the mantle of 'central node of Communism'. Except at that time, USSR was more powerful than China in every which way (economically, militarily, etc) and Khruschev simply continued to speak as the leader of the commie world. This is what caused the Sino-Soviet split. 

Despite that split, almost all communist nations saw USSR as its 'mai baap' and only the ones falling out with the USSR would choose China as its 'mai baap' (Yugoslavia, Albania, etc). 

So this mentality of heirarchy exists within the communist mindset from the beginning.