velu Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, zen said: Durodhan’s mother Gandhari used some special powers to make Duryodhan’s body capable of taking blows. Only his thighs were vulnerable which Bhim exploited /thread actually his privates duryodan was almost winning , stats shows he was far more skillful in macefight than bhima duroyodan might have picked lesser skillful pandava brothers , but he went for bhima Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlater Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 1 hour ago, velu said: for me only thing duryodan did is insulting draupadi out of revenge :( anywya yudistra was knowing the all the goalmal things krisha was doing to win the war and was part of it silently Erm Lakshagriha anyone? Duryodhan was a douchebag. But to be honest no character in Mahabharata is immune to criticism except maybe Vidur. Krishna was bap of all of them when it came to Bakchodi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh bling Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Mariyam said: Gandhari should also feature quite high in the list of the righteous ones. She keeps a blindfold to life at an equal level of disability as her husband. And this she does out of her free will. When Duryodhan asks for blessings before the war, her reply is to the tune of " may the righteous side win". If your husband is disable then it does not mean you disabe yourself, also she knew that Shakuni was evil yet she did nothing to keep him away from his sons Muloghonto 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 My pick will be Ekalavya but I haven't read the complete translation. My knowledge of the epic is courtesy the serial (Mukesh Khanna one), bedtime stories and Amar Chitra Katha....so my perspective is very limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 I've heard similar interpretation about Ramayan as well. Most would say Ram vs Ravan is good vs evil, some suggest that Ravan wanted to die at the hands of Ram and hence he went about his business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 12 hours ago, Pollack said: He was brave but certainly not righteous. No character in Mahabharat is righteous except of course Krishna. So righteous that he had to resort to treachery to steal Karna's jewels. That Karna was wise enough to see through Krishna's deception does not change the fact that Krishna flat out lied in his personification of a brahmin beggar asking alms. Nobody is righteous in Mahabharata except maybe Bhisma - and IMO the whole point of the book is the idea that good and evil are relative, with nobody ever being completely 100% good or evil, Krishna included. velu and rkt.india 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, beetle said: I don't watch tv. I have not heard such bad things about karn....if true, then i guess he was bad seed too. we see too much in to black and white while everyone does some gray stuff. What they do are good or bad from others perspective, but may not be good or bad from their own perspectives. no one is saint, even so called saints are not saints. Edited July 5, 2018 by rkt.india beetle and velu 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Muloghonto said: So righteous that he had to resort to treachery to steal Karna's jewels. That Karna was wise enough to see through Krishna's deception does not change the fact that Krishna flat out lied in his personification of a brahmin beggar asking alms. Nobody is righteous in Mahabharata except maybe Bhisma - and IMO the whole point of the book is the idea that good and evil are relative, with nobody ever being completely 100% good or evil, Krishna included. True. it is the true reflection of this world where everyone is vulnerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dial_100 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Muloghonto said: So righteous that he had to resort to treachery to steal Karna's jewels. That Karna was wise enough to see through ****'s deception does not change the fact that **** flat out lied in his personification of a brahmin beggar asking alms. Nobody is righteous in Mahabharata except maybe Bhisma - and IMO the whole point of the book is the idea that good and evil are relative, with nobody ever being completely 100% good or evil, ****** included. I request you to not make such comments. Please remove the word from your text. This is not a place where we discuss any GOD whether you believe it or not, whether you like it or hate it. I can defend, I can put lot of stuff in defense but then again, i wont stoop to that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 1 minute ago, dial_100 said: I request you to not make such comments. Please remove the word from your text. This is not a place where we discuss any GOD whether you believe it or not, whether you like it or hate it. I can defend, I can put lot of stuff in defense but then again, i wont stoop to that level. Krishna, is an avatar. Not a God. An avatar is not infallible, even by technical standard of Hinduism. I come from a brahmin family- before i stopped believing in the nonsense that is religion, the whole ' what is the difference between krishna, vishnu and rama' are the type of keen discussion any brahmin family (especially with the upanayan-guru) has. And whether you like it or not, the story tells itself- i did not invent anything, nor twist anything. Every version of Mahabharata has Krishna decieving Karna as a brahmin alms-seeker when Karna is performing the Surya pranaam. Pretending to be something you are not is deception. If i dress like a policeman and act like one, i am being deceptive. Similary, Krishna was being deceptive when he pretended to be a brahmin alms-seeker. An act does not become less/more moral because a God or prophet did it versus a normal person. An act stands on itself and the Mahabharata is not subject to your interpretation nor mine- it says what it says. And it clearly shows even Krishna is not beyond treachery. Which, ironically, makes it a far more 'divine' in my eyes than the mickey-mouse tales of other religions, as it actually portrays reality as being grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh bling Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Muloghonto said: So righteous that he had to resort to treachery to steal Karna's jewels. That Karna was wise enough to see through Krishna's deception does not change the fact that Krishna flat out lied in his personification of a brahmin beggar asking alms. Nobody is righteous in Mahabharata except maybe Bhisma - and IMO the whole point of the book is the idea that good and evil are relative, with nobody ever being completely 100% good or evil, Krishna included. It was indra not Krishna who stole kavach and kundals or karna Bhishma was not right.He loved his father more than nation , abducted Amba and other princesses , even some version says that he indirectly threatened Gandhar . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 1 hour ago, rkt.india said: we see too much in to black and white while everyone does some gray stuff. What they do are good or bad from others perspective, but may not be good or bad from their own perspectives. no one is saint, even so called saints are not saints. True. What we see and what we make of things is also from our perspective....hence the varying opinions . Moreover , people can be good in one role and pathetic in others. That judgement also varies depending upon the thinking of the people judging and depending on what they consider important . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Merlyn Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Muloghonto said: Krishna, is an avatar. Not a God. An avatar is not infallible, even by technical standard of Hinduism. I come from a brahmin family- before i stopped believing in the nonsense that is religion, the whole ' what is the difference between krishna, vishnu and rama' are the type of keen discussion any brahmin family (especially with the upanayan-guru) has. And whether you like it or not, the story tells itself- i did not invent anything, nor twist anything. Every version of Mahabharata has Krishna decieving Karna as a brahmin alms-seeker when Karna is performing the Surya pranaam. Pretending to be something you are not is deception. If i dress like a policeman and act like one, i am being deceptive. Similary, Krishna was being deceptive when he pretended to be a brahmin alms-seeker. An act does not become less/more moral because a God or prophet did it versus a normal person. An act stands on itself and the Mahabharata is not subject to your interpretation nor mine- it says what it says. And it clearly shows even Krishna is not beyond treachery. Which, ironically, makes it a far more 'divine' in my eyes than the mickey-mouse tales of other religions, as it actually portrays reality as being grey. Jitna pata ho utna bolna chahiye. Krishna didnot steal the jewels. Indra asked them as alms from Karna. Karna was free to refuse but he didnot as he had vowed to never refuse alms. Indra did this to protect his "Manas Putra" Arjun. Now how did Karna get the Kavach and Kundala, the only armour in the Dev-Shastragaar? Surya his father gave it to Karna at his birth. So Devtas were involved on both sides. Secondly for you religion may be nonsense but its not so for billions. No need to call it nonsense or mickey mouse tales. Learn to tolerate other's belief as others tolerate yours. No one here is interested in knowing about your family so stop boasting about it. Mahabharata is open to interpretations as its not written in vernacular hindi or english but in sanskrit. The core 24000 verses are almost 2500 years old. So the sanskrit text is indeed open to interpretations.Also hindu religious texts have inner meanings and open to interpretations. If you are a victim of treachery and adharma, its correct to resort to treachery to destroy that adharma and establish dharma. Avatar is a embodiment of the God himself and is as infallible as god. sensible-indian and adi B 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Merlyn Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 20 hours ago, velu said: incorrect. Yudhisthira made this offer and not Krishna. Duryodhana had vowed to kill Bhima to avenge the death of his 99 brothers thats why he chose Bheema. Stop believing in this kind of random stuff and read the book yourself. velu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riya Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 In Mahabharata no character was righteous...Someone said Gandhari..She represents the very woman who was blind to whatever her husband or son does...basically running away from the responsbilities.. Turning_track 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shunya Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 too many intellectuals around overanalysing everything and forcing their perversion of religion on everyone... Krishna has to be the greatest character in mahabharat...no question about it... Rest everyone are just normal ppl with good+bad characteristics... the story itself is said in a way that teaches by showing examples of mistakes of everyone...that includes pandavs, kauravas, the great bhishma, etc And cant stand the over glorification of Karna by modern day casteist, feminists, pseudo liberals... He was a dickhead like lot of others... adi B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Malcolm Merlyn said: If you are a victim of treachery and adharma, its correct to resort to treachery to destroy that adharma and establish dharma. There is something similar in Islam as well. If you stoop to those levels then what is the difference between you and them and in that case, the dharma is good as an adharma as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedheat Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 there was no righteous person in Mahabharata except lord Krishna, there were some straight forward in your face type persons like shishupal and barbarik but no righteous and I personally think that bhishma was hypocrite adi B and Turning_track 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 9 hours ago, Malcolm Merlyn said: Jitna pata ho utna bolna chahiye. Krishna didnot steal the jewels. Indra asked them as alms from Karna. Karna was free to refuse but he didnot as he had vowed to never refuse alms. Indra did this to protect his "Manas Putra" Arjun. Now how did Karna get the Kavach and Kundala, the only armour in the Dev-Shastragaar? Surya his father gave it to Karna at his birth. So Devtas were involved on both sides. Sorry my bad. However, Krishna is not without his deception/deceit. It was him that 'hid the sun' and falsely declared the day over, to kill whatsisname that Arjuna had vowed to kill within the day or commit suicide. If Surya gave Karna the kavach-kundala, its perfectly moral and just: a father has the moral right to give his children what is his. However, this doesn't excuse Indra's deception or Krishna's deception during Kurukshetra. 9 hours ago, Malcolm Merlyn said: Secondly for you religion may be nonsense but its not so for billions. No need to call it nonsense or mickey mouse tales. Learn to tolerate other's belief as others tolerate yours. I tolerate them, which is why i am not for banning religion. Learn that freedom of speech and ideas means that as long as no living entity is being libelled against, you have the right to say whatever you want. I shall defend YOUR right to chant 'ram nam satya hai' or 'Allah-hu-akbar' in public. Because its your right. Sad to see that right wingers do not extend the same right to atheists, who are also equally in the right to say 'God is BS'. 9 hours ago, Malcolm Merlyn said: No one here is interested in knowing about your family so stop boasting about it. Mahabharata is open to interpretations as its not written in vernacular hindi or english but in sanskrit. The core 24000 verses are almost 2500 years old. So the sanskrit text is indeed open to interpretations.Also hindu religious texts have inner meanings and open to interpretations. If you are a victim of treachery and adharma, its correct to resort to treachery to destroy that adharma and establish dharma. False. Two wrongs don't make a right. A wrong action, is still a wrong action whether its committed against a treacherous person or not. Just because a person is a criminal, does not give you the right to abuse their personal freedoms. 9 hours ago, Malcolm Merlyn said: Avatar is a embodiment of the God himself and is as infallible as god. Show me where it says that....in any scripture. I will wait. The stories THEMSELVES show that Avatars are not infallible. Rama regretted sending Sita into banishment. If Avatars are infallible, then it means each and every action of the avatar is infallible, ergo, Rama would not have committed an action he regrets. That is direct contradiction of the term 'infallible' and the tales themselves demonstrate that Avatars are not infallible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 1 hour ago, speedheat said: there was no righteous person in Mahabharata except lord Krishna, there were some straight forward in your face type persons like shishupal and barbarik but no righteous and I personally think that bhishma was hypocrite Even Krishna was not righteous. He flat out lied about the sun setting, hid the sun and then releazed it to bail out his chamcha Arjun from a stupid vow he took to commit suicide. Nobody is 100% righteous in the Mahabharata and that is what makes the tale so beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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