Middle order still an issue

[Stuge]

India middle order looks dicey

Edited June 22, 2019 by Stuge

[sandeep]

Its not the easiest track to bat on.  Although as it dries, it will get easier for Afghanbros. 

 

Middle order is doing a decent job of preventing a dumb collapse.  Targeting and ensuring 240 is more important than aiming for 290 and ending up with 220.  

 

Why just blame the middle order when Rohit and Rahul laid eggs?

 

[Stuge]

1 minute ago, sandeep said:

 

Why just blame the middle order when Rohit and Rahul laid eggs?

 

That is bound to happen ..You cannot expect top order to score in every match .Middle order needs to play slightly better .Here today they were unable to rotate strike..Barring Kohli everyone looked terrible ,

[sandeep]

8 minutes ago, Stuge said:

That is bound to happen ..You cannot expect top order to score in every match .Middle order needs to play slightly better .Here today they were unable to rotate strike..Barring Kohli everyone looked terrible , 

Sure, you'd like them to play better.  But let's step back and define the job of the middle order here, with priorities.  Their number one task is to ensure that we take a collapse off the table.  Not to repeat the obvious, but it makes no sense to take risk trying to push the score higher and getting out in the process - its a tricky balance - and its a bit understandable if they err on the side of caution.  Especially against a team known to have batting limitations.  I.e., its ok to end up with 250 instead of 270, but 220 would make things messy. 

 

Jadhav ordinarily bats with a lot of fluency and high SR.  His career SR is 90+ FFS.  If he's trudging along like this, there must be a bit of an issue.  Have some faith for a change.

 

I know everybody wants to see a run-a-ball innings or close to it, every time. But there are times when conditions are different. 

[The Dark Horse]

Shankar had a golden chance today.

[ravishingravi]

Issue is an understatement. After no 3, we have no proper batsman. How did we get here ?

[New guy]

33 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Its not the easiest track to bat on.  Although as it dries, it will get easier for Afghanbros. 

 

Middle order is doing a decent job of preventing a dumb collapse.  Targeting and ensuring 240 is more important than aiming for 290 and ending up with 220.  

 

Why just blame the middle order when Rohit and Rahul laid eggs?

 

What bullshit logic is this. Ebery match the same batsmen are supposed to perform and others are on a holiday?

[New guy]

20 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Sure, you'd like them to play better.  But let's step back and define the job of the middle order here, with priorities.  Their number one task is to ensure that we take a collapse off the table.  Not to repeat the obvious, but it makes no sense to take risk trying to push the score higher and getting out in the process - its a tricky balance - and its a bit understandable if they err on the side of caution.  Especially against a team known to have batting limitations.  I.e., its ok to end up with 250 instead of 270, but 220 would make things messy. 

 

Jadhav ordinarily bats with a lot of fluency and high SR.  His career SR is 90+ FFS.  If he's trudging along like this, there must be a bit of an issue.  Have some faith for a change.

 

I know everybody wants to see a run-a-ball innings or close to it, every time. But there are times when conditions are different. 

I have seen even fluent batsman get bogged down when the other batsman starts struggling and crawling. That sachin bangla innings was criticised but kohli was crawling at even slower pace other end . If you can't score 250 even against Afghanistan you suck

[sandeep]

Amidst all the chaos and panic,  I actually think Kedar deserves credit for staying at the crease till the end. 

 

Imagine if he'd gotten out, trying to push the pace 10 overs ago.  Ultimately its the final score that  the team puts up on the board that matters.  I'm sure that all of us would rather take a ugly 227, instead of a swash-buckling 198.

[sandeep]

12 minutes ago, New guy said:

What bullshit logic is this. Ebery match the same batsmen are supposed to perform and others are on a holiday?

So in your world, anything that you don't understand right away, or disagree with, is "bullshit"? 

 

* off.

[Trichromatic]

33 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Sure, you'd like them to play better.  But let's step back and define the job of the middle order here, with priorities.  Their number one task is to ensure that we take a collapse off the table.  Not to repeat the obvious, but it makes no sense to take risk trying to push the score higher and getting out in the process - its a tricky balance - and its a bit understandable if they err on the side of caution.  Especially against a team known to have batting limitations.  I.e., its ok to end up with 250 instead of 270, but 220 would make things messy. 

 

Jadhav ordinarily bats with a lot of fluency and high SR.  His career SR is 90+ FFS.  If he's trudging along like this, there must be a bit of an issue.  Have some faith for a change.

 

I know everybody wants to see a run-a-ball innings or close to it, every time. But there are times when conditions are different. 

Ended up with 220.

[rkt.india]

47 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Its not the easiest track to bat on.  Although as it dries, it will get easier for Afghanbros. 

 

Middle order is doing a decent job of preventing a dumb collapse.  Targeting and ensuring 240 is more important than aiming for 290 and ending up with 220.  

 

Why just blame the middle order when Rohit and Rahul laid eggs?

 

they still ended with 220

[sergio04]

atleast they took india to 200

i did not expect india to score over 150 after rohit got out early

[Stuge]

42 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Sure, you'd like them to play better.  But let's step back and define the job of the middle order here, with priorities.  Their number one task is to ensure that we take a collapse off the table.  Not to repeat the obvious, but it makes no sense to take risk trying to push the score higher and getting out in the process - its a tricky balance - and its a bit understandable if they err on the side of caution.  Especially against a team known to have batting limitations.  I.e., its ok to end up with 250 instead of 270, but 220 would make things messy. 

 

Jadhav ordinarily bats with a lot of fluency and high SR.  His career SR is 90+ FFS.  If he's trudging along like this, there must be a bit of an issue.  Have some faith for a change.

 

I know everybody wants to see a run-a-ball innings or close to it, every time. But there are times when conditions are different. 

 

scored 224 lol

[maniac]

56 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Its not the easiest track to bat on.  Although as it dries, it will get easier for Afghanbros. 

 

Middle order is doing a decent job of preventing a dumb collapse.  Targeting and ensuring 240 is more important than aiming for 290 and ending up with 220.  

 

Why just blame the middle order when Rohit and Rahul laid eggs?

 

Are you kidding me. Rohit and Rahul failing against afghan was the best thing that could have happened to give our middle order a knock in the middle. This failure is going to put more pressure on them and Kohli  in the bigger games. Our middle order is pretty much non-existent. Stop defending the crap quality of this middle order. Our bench can beat our top X1 which is puzzling. Dhoni and Jadhav are useless

[sandeep]

9 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Ended up with 220.

@rkt.india

And what does that prove?  Clearly the track isn't easy to bat on.

 

I actually expect it to be easier for the Afghans, since the sun will dry it up a bit.  We are at a genuine risk of losing this game, especially if that slogging opener gets away for a 30+ score. 

 

And yes, I would have expected India to manage 260 here, and 220 is a failure.  BUT, I credit Kedar Jadhav for at least taking us to 220.  

 

Its easy - and wrong imho - to blame Jadhav and Dhoni.  They didn't have an easy job here.  And Dhoni is what he is at this point - you can't expect a 40 year old to turn back time and bat like he used to 10 years ago.  I simply don't have expectations from him anymore. 

 

And its not a question of expecting "the same guys" to score every game.  Reality is that the top order gets the maximum luxury of playing themselves in, and batting without too many wickets down.  Its only fair to expect that the top order will do the bulk of the scoring.  Virat did great, Rohit is allowed the odd failure, but KL Rahul can be disappointed with his shot selection.  Shankar got the opportunity to bat at #4, and failed to come through. 

 

Point is, **** happens, sometimes things don't go our way - this would have been a good toss to lose.  The wicket was so spongy and sticky - if it dries up a bit, this could end up being a very good chance for Afghanistan to post a huge win. 

 

But lets try and be a bit objective and dispassionate about our snap judgements and "analysis" here. 

 

 

[sandeep]

6 minutes ago, Stuge said:

 

scored 224 lol

Would you rather have them swing for the fences 10 overs earlier and end up with 190?

[R!TTER]

4 minutes ago, maniac said:

This failure is going to put more pressure on them and Kohli  in the bigger games.

Except this doesn't guarantee anything, exposure for the MO means nothing if they actually fail when it matters! Heck this showing just makes it easier for Oz or other pretenders better to plan against us! Also just so you know IIRC Oz haven't lost to any team twice in a WC 

[sergio04]

2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

@rkt.india

And what does that prove?  Clearly the track isn't easy to bat on.

 

I actually expect it to be easier for the Afghans, since the sun will dry it up a bit.  We are at a genuine risk of losing this game, especially if that slogging opener gets away for a 30+ score. 

 

And yes, I would have expected India to manage 260 here, and 220 is a failure.  BUT, I credit Kedar Jadhav for at least taking us to 220.  

 

Its easy - and wrong imho - to blame Jadhav and Dhoni.  They didn't have an easy job here.  And Dhoni is what he is at this point - you can't expect a 40 year old to turn back time and bat like he used to 10 years ago.  I simply don't have expectations from him anymore. 

 

And its not a question of expecting "the same guys" to score every game.  Reality is that the top order gets the maximum luxury of playing themselves in, and batting without too many wickets down.  Its only fair to expect that the top order will do the bulk of the scoring.  Virat did great, Rohit is allowed the odd failure, but KL Rahul can be disappointed with his shot selection.  Shankar got the opportunity to bat at #4, and failed to come through. 

 

Point is, **** happens, sometimes things don't go our way - this would have been a good toss to lose.  The wicket was so spongy and sticky - if it dries up a bit, this could end up being a very good chance for Afghanistan to post a huge win. 

 

But lets try and be a bit objective and dispassionate about our snap judgements and "analysis" here. 

 

 

this proves if india wants to wc then rohit and kohli both needs to score  atleast 200 aggregate in every match

Edited June 22, 2019 by sergio04
typo

[sandeep]

10 minutes ago, maniac said:

Are you kidding me. Rohit and Rahul failing against afghan was the best thing that could have happened to give our middle order a knock in the middle. This failure is going to put more pressure on them and Kohli  in the bigger games. Our middle order is pretty much non-existent. Stop defending the crap quality of this middle order. Our bench can beat our top X1 which is puzzling. Dhoni and Jadhav are useless

I have said repeatedly that I don't want Dhoni batting ahead of anybody but the tail, unless we are 4 down in 20 overs. 

 

Jadhav is not crap.  He contributed more to the team today than Vijay Shankar.  From a more difficult position.  This was a team failure. 

 

Better that it happened against Afghanistan, where we still have a chance to defend 220, than against say, a NZ or England. 

 

Sometimes on tricky wickets, things go shyte-ways.  It happens.