Both Kuldeep & Chahal HAVE TO play in the knockouts!

[Amit228]

Problem with kulcha is that they don't have a plan B.. when pressure is on them.. they keep on tossing the ball without any change of pace on a slow surface....a slow pitch doesn't mean it will be a rank turner a la chepauk where English batsman will loose their bowels.. if they won't vary their pace..batsmen will adjust to slowness nd will keep tonking them with short boundaries.. playing two spinners will do a favour to England.. nd if in starting of kulchas spell they are taken for plenty .. then im afraid there would be less chance of staging a comeback as scars of previous game will get over them.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

Or pacers who are really quick in the air and can negate the slow pitches somewhat.

 

Starc, Bumrah,  Archer, Shami, Wood, Ferguson have all taken loads of wickets.

yes and a quick pacer who can bowl good cutters and slower ones like Archer, Bumrah. Even Hardik has done well with his slower ones.

[rkt.india]

55 minutes ago, Amit228 said:

Problem with kulcha is that they don't have a plan B.. when pressure is on them.. they keep on tossing the ball without any change of pace on a slow surface....a slow pitch doesn't mean it will be a rank turner a la chepauk where English batsman will loose their bowels.. if they won't vary their pace..batsmen will adjust to slowness nd will keep tonking them with short boundaries.. playing two spinners will do a favour to England.. nd if in starting of kulchas spell they are taken for plenty .. then im afraid there would be less chance of staging a comeback as scars of previous game will get over them.

Shakib is a great example.  He is not a big tuner of the ball but he is a champion at varying his pace and trajectory.  Before him, Daniel Vettori was like that.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, SecondSlip said:

Why is Bhuvi “wicketless” Kumar an automatic selection in the starting XI? He’s not going to bother either England or Australia at all in the knockouts.

 

If people want to include him because of his so called batting, then India doesn’t deserve to win any match where they are depending on #8 to get runs. If the top 7 can’t do the job, then we our #8 can’t do it either. 

 

Kuldeep and Chahal have had so much success in the past year and a half. If we play both of them in the knockouts, we have a greater chance of winning!

Bhuvi is averaging 25 in this WC and is a good death bowler.  He has 6 wickets in 4 games. That is why. 

 

Did they have so much success in England? No, they failed in England last year big time.  They are averaging 45 combined in this WC as well. At least learn from that experience. England have no problems facing them.

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, CG said:

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

He has actually been horrible. Go watch game against Afghanistan or first game against SA. He got away against Afghanistan with poor bowling as they were very defensive. Average of 55 does indicate something.
 
Now on one hand you are it has been a fast bowlers tournament and then you advocate playing two spinners who taken combined 16 wickets at an average of 45. While 3 pacers have 34 wickets at 20 and you want us to drop one of the pacers and that's utter foolishness. Don't go by perception but by results and actual performances.
 

I don't agree he bowled horribly in any game.Kuldeep has always had control which is rarity for wrist spinner.In pressure games I would always go for attacking option.We played 3 fast bowlers against Bangladesh and they nearly chased the total.

Pace is our strength at this point.  Pacers averaging 20, spinners 45. If not for pacers, we would have been knocked out of the WC by now.  Imagine pacers also averaging 45 with the ball.  

[express bowling]

11 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Pace is our strength at this point.  Pacers averaging 20, spinners 45. If not for pacers, we would have been knocked out of the WC by now.  Imagine pacers also averaging 45 with the ball.  

 

Agree.

[New guy]

6 hours ago, SecondSlip said:

Why is Bhuvi “wicketless” Kumar an automatic selection in the starting XI? He’s not going to bother either England or Australia at all in the knockouts.

 

If people want to include him because of his so called batting, then India doesn’t deserve to win any match where they are depending on #8 to get runs. If the top 7 can’t do the job, then we our #8 can’t do it either. 

 

Kuldeep and Chahal have had so much success in the past year and a half. If we play both of them in the knockouts, we have a greater chance of winning!

1) Bhuvi has already taken 6 wickets in 3 matches with crucial wickets as turning points in Australia match

 

2) In two crucial matches against big team Shami got carted around at the death, he gave 44 in 3 overs against England while Bumrah was bowling really well, runs which made the target unreachable. Similarly against Bangla he almost lost us the match.

Shami lost us one match and almost lost us another with his death bowling

 

So more than Bhuvi's batting, who will bowl at the death if only Shami and Bumrah play?

Edited July 4, 2019 by New guy

[New guy]

39 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Bhuvi is averaging 25 in this WC and is a good death bowler.  He has 6 wickets in 4 games. That is why. 

 

Did they have so much success in England? No, they failed in England last year big time.  They are averaging 45 combined in this WC as well. At least learn from that experience. England have no problems facing them.

3 games as he didnt even bowl in the Pakistan game except maybe 1 over

[I6MTW]

Bhuvi is a must in the lineup, as he is a better death bowler than Shami. Shami cannot bowl in the death, but he is absolutely necessary for wickets in the opening and middle stages in the innings. So the trio of Bhuvi, Bumrah, and Shami mus play. So out of the remaining two bowling spots, Pandya will occupy one. Which leaves one spot for Kuldeep/Chahal. If the wicket is very slow, and supports spin then both will play, otherwise only one of them will play. Jadeja maybe included in the squad in place of a batsman as he provides tight bowling, great fielding, batting is average 8/10 times though.

[rkt.india]

49 minutes ago, New guy said:

3 games as he didnt even bowl in the Pakistan game except maybe 1 over

yeah and this is the biggest reason, i wanted a spin bowling alrounder, not Jaddu.  We could have done do so much better with someone like Krunal at 7 instead of DK or Jadhav.  It would have given us better balance on pitches which do no aid spin and two specialist wrist spinners a a luxury.  It would have given us chance to play 3 specialist pacers, one spinner in one of Chahal/Kuldeep and one seam alrounder in Pandya and one spin alrounder in Krunal or someone else even Nitish Rana who can bowl handy off spin against left handers.

 

6. Hardik

7. Krunal/Nitish Rana 

8. BK

9. Shami

10. Chahal/Kuldeep

11. Bumrah

Edited July 4, 2019 by rkt.india

[express bowling]

Jaddu is a poor ODI batsman.  And therein lies the problem.  If he could bat and slog in ODIs like he does in tests these days, we could have played in the last 3 games.

 

6. Hardik

7. Jaddu

8. Bhuvi

9. Shami

10. Chahal

11. Bumrah 

 

As Kuldeep is out of form and Jaddu has bowled well in ODIs in the last 6 months.

Edited July 4, 2019 by express bowling

[prudent_kreeda]

8 hours ago, Tendulkar1996 said:

Depends on pitch and ground dimensions semis.

Ground dimesions will be normal for SF. They can't have 59 meters again. 

[WeStMiDz]

Think we need to get rid of this notion that two spinners for non Asian sides are a must. The stats of both England and Australia against spin shows a drastic improvement to the extent where they are now even more accomplished than Asian sides at playing spin. England in fact are destroyers of spin bowling. We cannot play two wristies against them in my opinion. 

[vvvslaxman]

5 minutes ago, WeStMiDz said:

Think we need to get rid of this notion that two spinners for non Asian sides are a must. The stats of both England and Australia against spin shows a drastic improvement to the extent where they are now even more accomplished than Asian sides at playing spin. England in fact are destroyers of spin bowling. We cannot play two wristies against them in my opinion. 

India's loss was due to their destroying of Shamin in the last 3 overs. He conceded 51 runs. ALl big overs one gigantic over as well. India had pulled things back nicely. He botched it up big time. Both Bhuvi and Shami can be murdered at the death. You need wicket takers in the middle overs. Only way you can take wickets is with spinners. You have to take chance against spinners. It doesn't always click against them.

[mishra]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

Jaddu is a poor ODI batsman.  And therein lies the problem.  If he could bat and slog in ODIs like he does in tests these days, we could have played in the last 3 games.

 

6. Hardik

7. Jaddu

8. Bhuvi

9. Shami

10. Chahal

11. Bumrah 

 

As Kuldeep is out of form and Jaddu has bowled well in ODIs in the last 6 months.

6. MSD

7. Jaddu

8. Bhuvi

9. Kuldeep

10. Chahal

11. Bumrah 

 

I will play Bhuvi ahead of Shami against England and Hardik should be above MSD in batting order. Kuldeep is must.

[WeStMiDz]

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

India's loss was due to their destroying of Shamin in the last 3 overs. He conceded 51 runs. ALl big overs one gigantic over as well. India had pulled things back nicely. He botched it up big time. Both Bhuvi and Shami can be murdered at the death. You need wicket takers in the middle overs. Only way you can take wickets is with spinners. You have to take chance against spinners. It doesn't always click against them.

Spinners went for 160 off 20 and took one wicket. England's weakness is no longer spin I'm afraid. It's not a one off performance. They have decimated Rashid Khan earlier in the tournament and previously have got to grips with our spin twins when we toured. 

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, WeStMiDz said:

Spinners went for 160 off 20 and took one wicket. England's weakness is no longer spin I'm afraid. It's not a one off performance. They have decimated Rashid Khan earlier in the tournament and previously have got to grips with our spin twins when we toured. 

As i told in other thread. Kuldeeps first 4 overs when the ball was newish went for 46 runs. Then he conceded 26 runs in the next 6 overs. Besides England attacked spinners mostly in matches they batted first. In all the matches where they chased they couldn't get going.  God forbid INdia bats ends up with a middling score of 280 and the pitch helps turn and we have only one spinner. They will have 4 right arm seamers  bowling to them. How much easier it can get. Bumrah, Shami, Bhuvi, Pandya. There is no real variety apart from Bumrah. Easier to target even on a tricky spinning wicket. 

[rkt.india]

47 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

India's loss was due to their destroying of Shamin in the last 3 overs. He conceded 51 runs. ALl big overs one gigantic over as well. India had pulled things back nicely. He botched it up big time. Both Bhuvi and Shami can be murdered at the death. You need wicket takers in the middle overs. Only way you can take wickets is with spinners. You have to take chance against spinners. It doesn't always click against them.

but spinners have not been wicket takers, but Shami has been.  Shami might have conceded runs at death, he still went less than what two spinners conceded.  and no we did not lose because of Shami.  Shami's 5-fer actually kept England in check who were once looking at 380 easily.  Remember, they were 160 in 22 overs.

[rkt.india]

45 minutes ago, mishra said:

6. MSD

7. Jaddu

8. Bhuvi

9. Kuldeep

10. Chahal

11. Bumrah 

 

I will play Bhuvi ahead of Shami against England and Hardik should be above MSD in batting order. Kuldeep is must.

Spinners have been pretty useless till now. what prompts you to play 2 spinners.  They have been as poor as Ashwin and Jaddu were in 2017 CT.  Performance just has not been there.

[figo6762]

No chahal please ... he’s useless and he’s should it .. unless and until we play on the same pitch that the last two games were doubt England will go for that