A few points about our semi-final loss

[Rightarmfast]

29 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Yes. England currently have YJB, Butler and Morgan. Also Pant was picked as batsman, not as a wk. DK was backup to Dhoni. All three are capable enough to play just as batsman.

Pass me whatever you been smoking. Sounds like potent enough. 

[R!TTER]

53 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Pant was picked more as batsman less as wk. DK was Dhoni's backup. Rahul and KJ are part time keepers. Even Kohli can keep. England have YJB, Morgan, Butler WK. It doesn't matter whether they are wk or not if they are good enough to play as specialist batsmen alone.

We didn't have enough bowling options, like when Pandya got injured after bowling 5 overs IIRC. He carried on because it was the SF & that also affected his batting, so either of Dhoni or DK should've featured not both!

[CG]

We didn't have enough bowling options, like when Pandya got injured after bowling 5 overs IIRC. He carried on because it was the SF & that also affected his batting, so either of Dhoni or DK should've featured not both!

Most team don't even have 5 bowling options and are batting heavy.

[R!TTER]

3 minutes ago, CG said:

Most team don't even have 5 bowling options and are batting heavy.

Most teams have 6 or 7 not just 5, you can count any of the top 6 teams & they all have more bowling options. None of our top or middle order bowl, that's why playing so many WK was stupid especially the one who dropped Taylor!

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

Pass me whatever you been smoking. Sounds like potent enough. 

So, YJB, butler, Morgan aren't keepers?

[rkt.india]

58 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Most teams have 6 or 7 not just 5, you can count any of the top 6 teams & they all have more bowling options. None of our top or middle order bowl, that's why playing so many WK was stupid especially the one who dropped Taylor!

Did they have any option? Third wk only came because Shankar got injured. Neither in reserves, we had any batsman who could bowl except Jadhav. 

[Khota]

Should have two more specialist batsman. I am a fan of DK and Pant and both can walk in the team as a wkt kpr/batsman. No need to play Dhoni, Pant and DK at the same time.

[Vijy]

4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Yes. England currently have YJB, Butler and Morgan. Also Pant was picked as batsman, not as a wk. DK was backup to Dhoni. All three are capable enough to play just as batsman.

which three? YJB and co or Dhoni and co? to me, none of the latter trio are capable enough to play as pure batsmen with their current form and ability. but I assume you are referring to YJB and co, which makes sense.

[Rightarmfast]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

So, YJB, butler, Morgan aren't keepers?

In which world is DK a dependable batsman, Pant a solid middle order batsman? In which team can they play only as a batsman? If you are assuming these are solid batsmen, you must be high on some solid dope.

[Sooda]

19 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Did they have any option? Third wk only came because Shankar got injured. Neither in reserves, we had any batsman who could bowl except Jadhav. 

Maybe You're right, Pant (he needs more experience before we say with confidence) and DK (in his specific role as finisher) probably just about good enough to play as batsmen (like Bairstow) and no they didn't have other bowling options... question for me is around planning why didn't they plan better by grooming middle order batsmen who may well be better than Rayudu and DK especially, and batsmen who can bowl.  DK supposedly in the squad as a wk coming in at 6 or 7 (don't even think he had played that many time recently in that position in ODIs) not middle order and was sent in at 5 in our biggest match. 

 

If Pant was going to be in the reserves he should have played a few/many more ODI in the last few months. (Though you Could argue that his IPL was a deciding factor.)

 

Jadeja was a late inclusion to the squad and overall WC scheme of things; if he had more ODI batting opportunity over the last year maybe we would have been confident enough in his ability to go with Shami instead of DK.

 

Shankar came into the tournament having played only a handful of matches batting at 4. Many 6th bowler option eggs Were put in the Jadhav basket, who in the end (Dodgy knees? Condition not helping him?) bowled one over all tournament. Pandya had a  good world cup but is not good enough to be bowling 10 overs every match.

 

We have known about these two problems - lack of 6th bowler options and no 4 - for a long while , yet the genuine candidates...Rahul, Manish, Iyer for no 4 , Jadeja and even Krunal as possible bowling all rounder were tried too late, too inconsistently, or not at all.

 

India have been going for safe, tried and tested options even in relatively meaningless ODIs in the build up to the WC at the expense of Long term planning

 

In the end alot boiled down to Dhoni coming in as low as 7 , why DK and Pandya were sent before him just beggars belief.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Sooda

[putrevus]

Playing DK in place of Shami was one of the biggest mistakes.DK is most useless head case followed by Rahul who have no ability to handle pressure.

 

Dhoni runs away from pressure when things don't suit him, he should have batted at no5 and World cup 2011 there was no need for him to promote himself over Yuvi but he did because Gambhir and Virat had done the hard yards already.

 

Dhoni inability to even do quarter of what Jadeja was doing cost big time.

[prudent_kreeda]

On 7/14/2019 at 4:27 PM, R!TTER said:

Most teams have 6 or 7 not just 5, you can count any of the top 6 teams & they all have more bowling options. None of our top or middle order bowl, that's why playing so many WK was stupid especially the one who dropped Taylor!

      Must be Pant !!!?

[coffee_rules]

They didn't see the warning signs of the weak MO, with shankar, Jadhav, Dhoni, Pandya in the Afg and WI matches. We barely managed to win on strong bowling against Afg. But the same MO issie were already seen. So, after WI, panic stricken, they got Pant, DK, Dhoni, Pandya, but that kind of quick fix will not work in a match before SF. Jiska dar tha wohi hua..

[mani sha]

On 7/11/2019 at 5:52 AM, Rightarmfast said:

Let's address the elephant in the room. Can anyone in this forum remember a single team ever, carrying 3 wicket keepers in the team? During our time,90's and early 2000's, a wicket keeper scoring runs was an extra brownie points. The nature of the game is such, that more often than not, you cannot rely on a wicket keeper to be your specialist batsman. DK and Pant have been wicket keepers through out. Have we run so short of batting talents in India that we carry 3 wicket keepers? And still use 45 yr + ch+ot to wicket keep for us? 

Couldnt the selectors find anything special in batters like Gill, Mayank etc to groom them for if not 2 yrs, atleast in the last 12 months? 

While I understand that a player like Jadhav could be good on a given day, but honestly, he never gives me the confidence of a player you could depend upon. Definitely, he is not a world cup material and offers zilch on a long term. Why ignore young players and have jadhav? If this is not nepotism and the effect of Dhongi, then what is? 

 

Must the captain and the coach not be held accountable to keep a fast bowler, who performed the best amongst all, away from the team in a crunch match, against a team he has a phenomenal record, in their own country? This point alone calls for a serious enquiry. And I mean serious. Theres definitely some wheeling dealing going on. 

 

A lot of people here wouldnt like me saying this, but within our hearts we all know that BCCI controls a hell lot of things, including the pitches Indian team plays on. I have no proof of saying this, but Indian team did get lucky with the kind of pitches they got initially. To think that they couldnt convert even after so much of influence, Kohli and Shastri must be fired. Dhoni should be kicked out as far as possible. 

These 3 are the biggest poison of team India. No player ever has been as toxic as these 3!

The enquiry will reveal lack of grey matter in shastri 

 

[coffee_rules]

1 minute ago, mani sha said:

The enquiry will reveal lack of grey matter in shastri 

 

Including KL who is a T20 wicket keeper as well, can keep if there is a need. FOUR wicketkeepers in a team for world cup. Now open threads . "Why dhoti shivering?"

[Singh bling]

Shreyas Iyer had very good IPL in 2018 , he should have been groomed  as middle order batsman.

[vijay50]

Follow India A versus West Indies A odis happening currently.Shreyas Iyer , Gill, Vihari and Gaikwad in form.

[Pandya_Power]

We're in a bit of catch-22 situation currently:

 

• When the top 3 click, they bat through and score daddy hundreds. MO barely gets match practice
• When the top 3 fail, the MO either fails or throws it away due to lack of temperament w.r.t building ODI innings

Its a wonder that we did well as well after losing Dhawan early in the Tournament - credit to KL. But I think, going forward we need to groom other batsmen. That would mean giving them enough match practice, helping them develop the temperament needed to close out games and not throw it away.

 

Realistically, the above is not going to happen unless we break up the top 3 - sorry, I know that's not what Kohli's fans want to hear, but these 3 are just too good in all conditions except when they come up against extreme swing bowler friendly conditions (this means that their failures are few and far in between, likely encountered in only 2-3 countries). I see no way of getting around this unless Virat bats at #4 and developing someone like Rahul or Pant or some other kid like Gill at #3. Pandya should be our designated #6 who gets promoted occasionally like he did during this WC. I thought the Management used him wisely and he did perfectly fine, imo. This would still leave us with finding a bowling all-rounder - probably Jadeja - at #7 who can tonk the ball right off the gate.

 

 

[R!TTER]

1 hour ago, Pandya_Power said:

unless we break up the top 3 - sorry, I know that's not what Kohli's fans want to hear, but these 3 are just too good in all conditions except when they come up against extreme swing bowler friendly conditions

They failed in India as well when the ball spun sharply, against Oz. Fact is, like I've said multiple times - these guys are overrated 

[retired_hurt]

I really wanted Dravid as the coach. But he is doing fine with emerging players and doubt he would want anything to do with Kohli after Kumble's humiliating exit. 

Edited July 16, 2019 by retired_hurt