WC2011INDIA Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 https://www.news18.com/news/india/china-moving-ahead-talking-about-temples-and-mosques-will-waste-our-time-says-ex-navy-chief-2267017.html Kudos to this ex navy chief. Majority of chutiyas busy in dick measuring contest and nonsense topics. Start talking REAL issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Going by sentiments of thread https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/mumbaikars-tweet-to-invite-kashmiris-home-for-eid/articleshow/70635900.cms Quote Mumbaikars tweet to invite Kashmiris home for Eid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WC2011INDIA Posted August 12, 2019 Author Share Posted August 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, mishra said: Going by sentiments of thread https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/mumbaikars-tweet-to-invite-kashmiris-home-for-eid/articleshow/70635900.cms Useless. Wahi religion nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, WC2011INDIA said: Useless. Wahi religion nonsense. What you see useless to me looks like Common man in street sending clear message that we are one community one nation and will stand by with its nxt generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 China already had a cultural revolution under Mao, India hasn't had one. Our society has way too many fault lines, we are unsure/confused about our ideology, historical wrongs haven't been corrected (grudge, major fault line), divisions are ammunition for the enemy apart from limiting our ability to maximize potential. If we want to progress, have to invest some time and resources in religion/culture etc, rejig our society and establish a dominant ideology. Otherwise it will simply be chaos. mishra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WC2011INDIA Posted August 12, 2019 Author Share Posted August 12, 2019 I have often felt that revolution is simply impossible in India because of the meek / docile nature of majority of Indians. It is a miracle that we achieved independence and that's why Britishers were miffed that how the hell they lost their prized colony. Then agaib it took effing forever to get there. Too many divisions in the society to actually get together and create a powerful nation. Ranvir 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 4 hours ago, Gollum said: China already had a cultural revolution under Mao, India hasn't had one. Do you have any idea how many millions of Chinese were murdered by Mao as part of his "cultural revolution"? Please read up on history before spouting ignorant wishes. G_B_ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 4 hours ago, Gollum said: If we want to progress, have to invest some time and resources in religion/culture etc, rejig our society and establish a dominant ideology We do have a "dominant ideology". And its a very powerful one. "Unity in diversity" is a formula that casts a wide net, and allows for the wide variety of ethnicities, religions and other groupings to still feel as Indian as you or me. Its an extremely powerful slogan and an effective one. Fantasizing about a creating a "dominant ideology' is best left to kleptocratic morons. MechEng, krupaksk and putrevus 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_B_ Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, sandeep said: We do have a "dominant ideology". And its a very powerful one. "Unity in diversity" is a formula that casts a wide net, and allows for the wide variety of ethnicities, religions and other groupings to still feel as Indian as you or me. Its an extremely powerful slogan and an effective one. Fantasizing about a creating a "dominant ideology' is best left to kleptocratic morons. you remind me of the idea of india brigade. adi B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, sandeep said: Do you have any idea how many millions of Chinese were murdered by Mao as part of his "cultural revolution"? Please read up on history before spouting ignorant wishes. Did I say we have to follow Mao? Or that millions have to be killed? Don't make assumptions. We can achieve the same our own way minimizing adverse impact, and through a democratic process to boot, unlike China. Latest Triple Talaq act is an example, was a drop of blood shed in the process? Didn't it get passed constitutionally after long civil discussions in the 2 houses, after public/expert opinion got sought and a movement built on ground (led by female Muslim victims), over a period of time? Hell the govt even waited for the SC to pass its verdict before legislating the bill....we do it our way, poles apart from Mao's way. 1 hour ago, sandeep said: We do have a "dominant ideology". And its a very powerful one. "Unity in diversity" is a formula that casts a wide net, and allows for the wide variety of ethnicities, religions and other groupings to still feel as Indian as you or me. Its an extremely powerful slogan and an effective one. Fantasizing about a creating a "dominant ideology' is best left to kleptocratic morons. Do we have 'unity in diversity'? All good on paper, good to hear but have we ever been united, never our forte if the last 1000 years of history is studied (a civilizational issue, goes beyond modern history). Have we taken decisive steps to get rid of the caste system or have they grown deeper? Have political votebanks increased or decreased both in number and intensity since 1947? And no, not all religious/linguistic communities and ethnicities put India first, it is an alien concept for many...Nagas have a separate independence day with their own national flag, even their laws are different. Do we have a uniform civil code? No, not after 72 years... if we are a secular republic how can various communities put their religious laws above laws of the state....isn't that a violation of secularism? Ideological is not just limited to culture/society, do we have a dominant economic ideology? We are just a confused nation that doesn't know what it is doing, chalta hai attitude, lack of cohesion won't help us. Half the stuff in our preamble doesn't apply...we aren't secular, we aren't socialist, social justice is a distant dream, no equality, no fraternity, very little liberty. So I am asking you, what is our ideology? Other countries have fixed theirs, good or bad, doesn't matter but they have them. China has an ideology, doesn't matter how they got there, but they are reaping benefits because of that today. Ours is a hotchpotch, fancy slogan like 'Unity in Diversity' doesn't cut it, too shallow and bereft of practicality. Edited August 12, 2019 by Gollum FischerTal, sergio04, coffee_rules and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_B_ Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 and to answer the OP and the admiral the underlying issue is politics due to our democratic nature. The regional outfits such as the DMK keep talking about Tamil pride etc. BJP Hindu rights and Congress minority rights. India is not some for of unique country. In any democracy there will be parties which come into existence to address the needs of a particular segment of society. This is especially true in the Westminster system of politics in which the winning threshold does not have to be 50%. I have seen this in the UK with the emergence of regional outfits such as the SNP making decisions harder. Take the Rafale deal. There was no Hindu Muslim aspect to it. Why did it take so long to make the deal happen? Politics. AK anthony sat on his ass as defense minister. He was neither corrupt nor did he make any decisions at all. Once parikar made the call, you have seen with your own eyes the mud slingging that followed. If a government want to construct a road or an expressway. Lets say for eg the salem expressway. There will be counter protests initiated by the opposition. Once again this has nothing to do with Hindu Muslim. Its just politics. India has decision paralysis due to politics. The only way forward is for one party to be thoroughly dominant for a long period of time. Within that party there need to be a limited number of individuals dominant. So Indians need to decide, do they want decisions to be made (some of which will clearly be wrong) or do that want accountability (which comes with decision paralysis). These are the two paths. FischerTal and coffee_rules 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechEng Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 27 minutes ago, sandeep said: Do you have any idea how many millions of Chinese were murdered by Mao as part of his "cultural revolution"? Please read up on history before spouting ignorant wishes. The same can be said for Shah's Iran, the secret police savak did the same to people who questioned the US/UK puppet dictator. Be careful what you wish for.. adi B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, sandeep said: We do have a "dominant ideology". And its a very powerful one. "Unity in diversity" is a formula that casts a wide net, and allows for the wide variety of ethnicities, religions and other groupings to still feel as Indian as you or me. Its an extremely powerful slogan and an effective one. Fantasizing about a creating a "dominant ideology' is best left to kleptocratic morons. Spoken like a true liberal. This dominant ideology is only in the minds of a few elite in cities. The one that makes us feel ashamed to be identified as a Hindu, but compromise on our history, culture and civilizational roots. It has made policies to ban teaching our philosophy in schools, but has pushed a teaching only minority narratives. It has made 2 or 3 generations uprooted from their cultural history, they are believing that we are a nation of failed dynasties that invaders plundered. Hence, the rise of the RW and BJP winning consecutive elections. There is a need for a grand Indian narrative that is proud our 5000 year old civilization, be proud that it the Vedic civilization that gave the world a sophisticated language that is used in both aesthetics (rasa) as well as to explain a philosophy (bhava). Instead, we are taught Aryans came from central Asia bringing their language and vedas and drove the original inhabitants south, they brought in the caste system, that divides society, invaders coming in and plundering, but we can't speak of it because it hurts the other minorities. Hence to make them feel good, we believe forcibly in a "unity in diversity" so we can sleep peacefully at night. Every powerful ntion is built on a grand narrative, even China has gone back to it's civilization roots are teaching Confucius philosophy to it's students. They celebrate their new year with a lot of fervor. Indians should get out of this chalta hai attitude, fix some of the cutlural issues with caste reform (doesn't mean reservations), Since 200 years, we believe we are nation of unequal people. That has to go. Edited August 12, 2019 by coffee_rules adi B, mishra, G_B_ and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranvir Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 The problem is that whilst most religious groups are becoming less religious in each passing generation, one group is becoming religious and backwards. If you do not stand up for yourself then they will overrun you. What India has done in the last week and what Modi has done in the last 5 years is what should have been done 70 years ago. There should have been a more complete population exchange during partition. sergio04, adi B, Under_Score and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechEng Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Spoken like a true liberal. This dominant ideology is only in the minds of a few elite in cities. The one that makes us feel ashamed to be identified as a Hindu, but compromise on our history, culture and civilizational roots. It has made policies to ban teaching our philosophy in schools, but has pushed a teaching only minority narratives. It has made 2 or 3 generations uprooted from their cultural history, they are believing that we are a nation of failed dynasties that invaders plundered. Hence, the rise of the RW and BJP winning consecutive elections. There is a need for a grand Indian narrative that is proud our 5000 year old civilization, be proud that it the Vedic civilization that gave the world a sophisticated language that is used in both aesthetics (rasa) as well as to explain a philosophy (bhava). Instead, we are taught Aryans came from central Asia bringing their language and vedas and drove the original inhabitants south, they brought in the caste system, that divides society, invaders coming in and plundering, but we can't speak of it because it hurts the other minorities. Hence to make them feel good, we believe forcibly in a "unity in diversity" so we can sleep peacefully at night. Unfortunately we cannot have a grand narrative. This is because we are nearing the end of an industrial society and totally transitioning into digital information age as a result completely cutting off our roots with traditional agrarian way. Even if we manage to form a grand narrative now, it will be a superficial one like the Protestant Christianity of Anglo societies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, MechEng said: Unfortunately we cannot have a grand narrative. This is because we are nearing the end of an industrial society and totally transitioning into digital information age as a result completely cutting off our roots with traditional agrarian way. Even if we manage to form a grand narrative now, it will be a superficial one like the Protestant Christianity of Anglo societies. We are not a proud nation, hence we see people throwing garbage on the street, break traffic rules and destory public property. This grand narrative should have been pushed 72 years ago, so 2 or 3 generations would have made a difference. It is still not too late, if we fix our system for future generation. Have a 2 year compulsory voluteer experience as part of graduation (Like Israel/Singapore), when kids live on their own, their attitude towards life will be totally different. Jumping on the digital age without knowing how it was when it was all analog, will lead to this chaos that we live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, coffee_rules said: There is a need for a grand Indian narrative that is proud our 5000 year old civilization, be proud that it the Vedic civilization that gave the world a sophisticated language that is used in both aesthetics (rasa) as well as to explain a philosophy (bhava). Instead, we are taught Aryans came from central Asia bringing their language and vedas and drove the original inhabitants south, they brought in the caste system, that divides society, invaders coming in and plundering, but we can't speak of it because it hurts the other minorities. Hence to make them feel good, we believe forcibly in a "unity in diversity" so we can sleep peacefully at night. Every powerful ntion is built on a grand narrative, even China has gone back to it's civilization roots are teaching Confucius philosophy to it's students. They celebrate their new year with a lot of fervor. Indians should get out of this chalta hai attitude, fix some of the cutlural issues with caste reform (doesn't mean reservations), Since 200 years, we believe we are nation of unequal people. That has to go. None of this conflicts with Unity in Diversity. You can celebrate the greatness of India without denigrating non-hindus. MechEng 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, G_B_ said: you remind me of the idea of india brigade. I don't know what that "brigade" is, but sure. If its easier for you to dismiss other people's opinions and perspectives when they disagree with yours, by conflating them with some random strawman, go for it. Whatever makes you feel good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechEng Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 46 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: We are not a proud nation, hence we see people throwing garbage on the street, break traffic rules and destory public property. This grand narrative should have been pushed 72 years ago, so 2 or 3 generations would have made a difference. It is still not too late, if we fix our system for future generation. Have a 2 year compulsory voluteer experience as part of graduation (Like Israel/Singapore), when kids live on their own, their attitude towards life will be totally different. Jumping on the digital age without knowing how it was when it was all analog, will lead to this chaos that we live in. The filth you see on streets is not a symptom of lack of national pride but a symptom of unmet needs, if majority of Indians get good quality of life all things will be taken care of. Pakistan is a very proud nation, very proud of it's Islamic identity, but do you think that the quality of life is good there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, sandeep said: None of this conflicts with Unity in Diversity. You can celebrate the greatness of India without denigrating non-hindus. Yes, most certainly. In order to do that, we need them to acknowledge the wrongs of history and move forward. Nobody wants to blame them for the atrocities done by their ancestors. Call it a "Indian/Indic" narrative. It need not be called a Hindu rashtra if it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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